What about this lovely Jonckheere bus buit on a Volvo chassis? RHD, so probably for Britain.
So what`s the difference between the exposed radiator Leyland double deckers and the more modern looking ones with the LAD grille?
ramone:
So what`s the difference between the exposed radiator Leyland double deckers and the more modern looking ones with the LAD grille?
I think they were the same, you could get your PD2 with an exposed radiator or a concealed one but they were the same otherwise. The LAD-type grilles were often referred to as ‘St Helens’ grilles probably because they were the first to take delivery of them. Robert
ERF-NGC-European:
ramone:
So what`s the difference between the exposed radiator Leyland double deckers and the more modern looking ones with the LAD grille?I think they were the same, you could get your PD2 with an exposed radiator or a concealed one but they were the same otherwise. The LAD-type grilles were often referred to as ‘St Helens’ grilles probably because they were the first to take delivery of them. Robert
Thanks Robert , I saw an earlier post with a photo of the last Leyland half cab double decker made and it had an exposed radiator . I thought the LAD style was the modern version
By the late '50s the exposed radiator was considered a bit old fashioned, IIRC Birmingham Corporation, possibly influenced by their neighbour BMMO, introduced a new design of front end which hid the radiator behind a grille. This became known as the “Birmingham Front end” and appeared in their fleet and elsewhere on Daimler, Guy, and Crossley buses with a slightly different version appearing on Leyland Chassis. AEC went with their own design based upon the MK V Park Royal grille. At about the same time St Helens Corporation specified a (fibre glass?) grille for their Leyland double deck chassis based upon the LAD cab version, which naturally became known as " the St Helens Front". All of these versions made maintenance considerably more difficult. Geoffrey Hilditch recalls various rather dubious bits of wood used to support the engine during removal while the crane hook was repositioned from under the bonnet to in front of the grille. Some operators cut a big hole in the front end to make the task easier and then pop rivetted a patch over the surgery.
St Helens Corporation was one of the very few operators to order new RT type AEC Regent III buses, most of the others in use outside London were second hand sales from LT of surplus vehicles.
This was the earlier, “tin front” concealed radiator Titan, before the St. Helens front
RIB LRN62 by Brian Bennett, on Flickr
240 Gardner:
This was the earlier, “tin front” concealed radiator Titan, before the St. Helens front
thats very much, BMMO style, though i have no idea which came first.
another type was the ‘Manchester’ front, with the headlights outside of the radiator ‘bulge’ the nearside headlight
being blended into the mudwing.
pyewacket947v:
240 Gardner:
This was the earlier, “tin front” concealed radiator Titan, before the St. Helens front
thats very much, BMMO style, though i have no idea which came first.
another type was the ‘Manchester’ front, with the headlights outside of the radiator ‘bulge’ the nearside headlight
being blended into the mudwing.
Like this pyewacket947v.
Oily
240 Gardner:
This was the earlier, “tin front” concealed radiator Titan, before the St. Helens front
Chris, What a great picture. If my memory serves me well, this Scout PD3 looks like it has just reversed
from the old Ribble bus station in Preston, and is setting off to Lytham. This site was still in operation
when I joined Ribble early 1968. Regards, Ray.
youtu.be/VqRcqv60Mbs
A few odd vehicles in this German show
240 Gardner:
This was the earlier, “tin front” concealed radiator Titan, before the St. Helens front
I remember Blackpool council ran a few of those
Chris Webb will have passed this location may times with his Littlewoods wagon & trailer.
The AEC Mk 111 Regent and the tram are seen both turning left from London Road and on
to Lime Street in Liverpool. Another link with Chris is the Walkers Brewery “Legs Of Man”
public house, mostly hidden by the bus. This picture is probably from 1951 or 1952, as the
AEC bus looks quite new. The advert on the side of the bus is Threlfalls, a local brewery.
Ray Smyth.
From Page 4:-
Gingerfold:
Cav551:
Not a myth according to Michael Eyre & Chris Heaps’ “Manchester and Salford, a Century of Municipal Transport.”Following WW2 Salford’s Municipal fleet was in a parlous state, so bad in fact that during the war the Government had threatened to tow away all the broken down vehicles and repair them for use elsewhere.
Charles Baroth achieved a complete transformation in little more than 18 months, adopting a smart new livery, instigating an annual top and tail partial repaint with a complete makeover every two years, new bus shelters, bus stop flags and a rename of the undertaking to Salford City Transport to mention a few points; not an easy undertaking in immediate post war Britain. Baroth surrounded himself with talented men to carry out his orders and his high standards.
The towing story is true. Noticing an elderly Dennis towing vehicle staioned at Victoria bus station complete with large towing chain he declared " No bus which bears my name, let alone that of the City of Salford, and which requires a device like that to move it, shall henceforth ever be allowed to leave the garage." For the next 20 odd years no bus was to be allowed to be seen to fail in public. Instructions were given that should one do so then the crew were to push it if at all possible into a side street and change the blinds to ‘Private’. The bus was to be recovered after dark by Salford’s pristine AEC Matador. If Baroth noticed an unwashed bus on his journey to work then it was to be withdrawn from service and a clean bus substituted.
There was almost a sense of animosity between Manchester and Salford transport departments. The 1947 winter caused great difficulties for Manchester starting its Crossley DD42 buses, a Tractor was kept at Piccadilly to give them a push start. The story appeared in the local paper with pictures. Baroth had a copy framed which then sat on his office mantlepiece.
Many of these municipal transport department General Managers were very autocratic and seemed to be able to bend council transport committees to their will, getting money released to spend on new liveries at their whim, for example. One thing that Charles Baroth couldn’t change was the fact that Victoria bus station, one of the most dismal places in the country by the way, was a few yards on the wrong side of the Manchester / Salford boundary, so Salford City buses had to carry Manchester on the destination blind and not Salford on all services that went into Victoria.
TruckNetUK . Old Time Lorries . Buses,Motorcoaches & Lorries . Page 14 .HALLOWEEN 
Wednesday,31st October,2018. VALKYRIE .
The above quoted stories remind me of three Rolls-Royce motorcar legends 
A. Rolls-Royce The Best Car In The World.True.
B. A Rolls-Royce motorcar never breaks down,it just fails to progress.
C. When a Rolls-Royce motorcar fails to progress,a anonymous,large black van-bodied lorry turns up where the Rolls-Royce is parked,under cover of darkness,at midnight-wee small hours of the morning. The Rolls-Royce is loaded in to the lorry,which then transports this motorcar to the nearest Rolls-Royce dealer who then encourages the Rolls-Royce to progress…and the Rolls-Royce does progress! 
The manager of Salford City Transport,Charles Baroth,must have been a classy man,so there is no wonder why he chose the Daimler motorcoach and bus marque for the buses of Salford City Transport He probably had a Daimler motorcar for his own personal transport too!
Charles Baroth must have been attracted to the Daimler motor vehicle marque mainly because of the following points:-
A. Daimler is Great Britain’s oldest motor vehicle marque and has a rich history.
B. Daimler made high quality luxury motorcars,and from 1908 they were powered by Daimler-Knight Silent Knight Sleeve Valve Petrol Engines which were quiet,smooth running,reliable but consumed far more oil than a poppet valved car and had a blue exhaust haze.Sleeve valve engines were gradually phased out from 1933 to 1936 in favour of OHV poppet valve engines.
C. Daimler motorcars were used by the British Royal Family from the early pioneer days of the motorcar.Daimler were awarded a Royal Warrant as official supplier of motorcars to the above Royal Family in 1902,and continued to officially provide motorcars to the Royal Family until the early 1950s,when Rolls-Royce became the official supplier.
Daimler motorcars were bought by other Royal families in other parts of the world.
D. The beautiful,chromium and/or nickel-plated shiny fluted Daimler radiator was a hallmark,became part of the Daimler mystique and gave
off an aura of quality Although some radiators were painted,the aura remained
E. Just as the mystique of Rolls-Royce motorcars (and some of the quality) became integral with Rolls-Royce diesel-oil engines,so the mystique (and some of the quality) of Daimler motorcars became integral with Daimler motorcoaches and buses
F.Most if not all of the Salford Daimler buses and (if they had any) motorcoaches were powered by Gardner diesel-oil engines,which were locally produced in Manchester and, in terms of quality,were The Rolls-Royce Of Diesel-Oil Engines,but definitely not in terms of power and performance!
G.From 1930 Daimler motorcoaches,buses and motorcars were fitted with the Daimler Fluid Flywheel-Wilson - Type Pre-Selector Epicyclic Gearbox
Combination Transmission System,which provided increased torque and easy and smooth gear changes which went together very well with
the Daimler motorcar image of high quality
So the above seven points were probably the main reasons why Charles Baroth chose the Daimler motorcoach and bus marque
I dare say that had Rolls-Royce made motorcoaches and buses Charles Baroth would have ordered some of these as well!
Daimler.Royal Daimlers,Brian E Smith,Transport Bookman Publications,1976. Brian Smith has also written the definitive history of the Daimler motorcar marque - Daimler Days.4#
Daimler Double Six 6-50 HP,6.5-Litre OHV V12,Royal State Limousine,XE 7432,London, 1935,Queen Mary’s limousine,complete with quaint and lordly top-hatted bodywork! ClassicCarCatalogue,Com.4# It was re-engined with a Daimler 4095 CC OHV In-Line 6-Cylinder Petrol Engine in 1939-1940 to save on fuel during World War Two,was re-registered NYE 582,London,1953,and was restored by the Coventry Motor Museum where it is on display.
Daimler Double Six 6-50 HP,6.5-Litre OHV V12,Royal State Limousine,fitted again with quaint and lordly top-hatted style of bodywork.1935.King George V’s limousine.1# Front nearside view.India.In 1947 it was bought by the Maharaja of Darbhanga.Now owned by car dealer Sharad
Sanghi.
Daimler DE36,Straight Eight,Royal State Landaulette Limousine,built in 1947 for the British Royal Family,registered YXB 99 in London,1960.4#
Daimler CVG6DD/Metro-Cammell H30/24R Double Decker Omnibus,Chassis No.15389, FRJ 511,Salford,10-1951,Salford,No.511.Wikimedia.1#
From Page 13:-
Ramone » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:56 pm
Ray Smyth wrote:
I understand that this Leyland PD3 was the very last “Half Cab” bus from Leyland Motors.
It is seen here in “Moomooland” County. Ray Smyth.
Ramone replied,QUOTE
It looks less modern than the ones that ran around Bradford in the `70s with the LAD grille . Did they produce both types at the same time ? 
UNQUOTE.
Ramone » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:12 pm
QUOTE:
So what`s the difference between the exposed radiator Leyland double deckers and the more modern looking ones with the LAD grille? UNQUOTE
Reply
by ERF-NGC-European » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:13 pm
Ramone wrote:So what`s the difference between the exposed radiator Leyland double deckers and the more modern looking ones with the LAD grille?
QUOTE:
I think they were the same, you could get your PD2 with an exposed radiator or a concealed one but they were the same otherwise. The LAD-type grilles were often referred to as ‘St Helens’ grilles probably because they were the first to take delivery of them. Robert UNQUOTE.
Reply
by » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:17 pm
QUOTE:
ERF-NGC-European wrote:
Ramone wrote:So what`s the difference between the exposed radiator Leyland double deckers and the more modern looking ones with the LAD grille?
I think they were the same, you could get your PD2 with an exposed radiator or a concealed one but they were the same otherwise. The LAD-type grilles were often referred to as ‘St Helens’ grilles probably because they were the first to take delivery of them. Robert
Thanks Robert , I saw an earlier post with a photo of the last Leyland half cab double decker made and it had an exposed radiator . I thought the LAD style was the modern version UNQUOTE.
VALKYRIE replies:-
The principle optional radiator and radiator grille fronts for Postwar Leyland Titan PD Half Cab Double Decker Bus models on the home market 1945 to 1970 were:-
A.Traditional exposed radiator,chromium-plated,panted and cast aluminium options - the cast aluminium version became the standard version. 1945-1970.
B.The London Transport Leyland Titan RTW and RTL exposed cast aluminium radiator,which had the Leyland styling and look,was unique to these models.RTL 1948-1954. RTW 1949-1950.
C.Midland Red Front Radiator Grille,1952 - circa 1966.
D.Liverpool Front Radiator Grille,1956 - circa 1961? Unique to Liverpool.
E.St.Helens Front Radiator Grille,1960 - 1970. First fitted to Leyland Titan’s for St.Helens,hence the St.Helens name
NOTE:Some Leyland Titan PD’s were full fronted,some of which had Midland Red Fronts,others had St.Helens Fronts - Blackpool,for example,had both versions.
Leyland Titan PD2/12/Weymann H32/26R Double Decker Bus,Chassis No.531484,Body No.M5802, RWB 87,Sheffield,March 1954,Sheffield,No.687.Has optional traditional exposed cast aluminium radiator.Preserved. Rowsley.1#
Leyland Titan 7RT/Park Royal H30/26R DD Omnibus,Chassis No.495918,Body No.L444, KLB 648,12-1949,London Transport RTL453 & Leyland Titan 6RT/Leyland H30/26R DD Omnibus,Chassis No.504335, LLU 967,11-1950,London Transport RTW 467.CBWM.1#
Leyland Titan PD3/1,Midland Red Front/Roe H39/30R Double Decker Bus,Chassis No.583140,Body No.GO4877, 3904 WE,Sheffield,6-1959,Sheffield,No.904.Wikimedia.1#
Leyland Titan PD2/20,Liverpool Front/Crossley H33/29R Double Decker Bus,Chassis No.561039,Body No.5287, VKB 711,Liverpool,11-1956,Liverpool,No.L255.Wikimedia.1#
Leyland Titan PD3A/1,St.Helens Front/Northern Counties H41/32F Double Decker Bus,Chassis No.610141,Body No.5588, VHE 195,Barnsley,6-1961,Yorkshire Traction,No.1195. Portrait-painting by G.S.Cooper.1#
Happy Halloween
VALKYRIE
oiltreader:
pyewacket947v:
240 Gardner:
This was the earlier, “tin front” concealed radiator Titan, before the St. Helens front
thats very much, BMMO style, though i have no idea which came first.
another type was the ‘Manchester’ front, with the headlights outside of the radiator ‘bulge’ the nearside headlight
being blended into the mudwing.Like this pyewacket947v.
Oily
Yep,thats it Oily, thanks.!
oiltreader:
Quad axle(OZ lingo) at Canberra Australia.
Oily
Cant recall ever seeing a 8 wheeler coach before Oily ! 
Argentina 1968.
Click on pages twice.
DEANB:
Cant recall ever seeing a 8 wheeler coach before Oily !
Didn’t you ever see the Moulton coach?
"Cant recall ever seeing a 8 wheeler coach before Oily ! "
Been about for a while Dean this one from 1922, courtesy of the The Old Motor blog.
Oily
Froggy55:
https://youtu.be/VqRcqv60Mbs
A few odd vehicles in this German show
Thanks Froggy55, enjoyed that 
Oily
oiltreader:
"Cant recall ever seeing a 8 wheeler coach before Oily ! "Been about for a while Dean
Oily
An undoubted triumph for the styling department (whatever it is) 
…
grumpy old man:
oiltreader:
"Cant recall ever seeing a 8 wheeler coach before Oily ! "Been about for a while Dean
OilyAn undoubted triumph for the styling department (whatever it is)
I believe that was built by Goodyear themselves to demonstrate the advantages of multi axles. I’ve seen another picture somewhere of it, or an identical vehicle, as a six-wheeler with a single front axle but the wheelarch cutout still to suit two axles. You’re right, it ain’t pretty is it?
Bernard