Hi
Can anyone recommend the best return route for a Calais to Bologna trip in a LWB van.
Going to clear a house and bring the contents back to the UK.
As the van is empty going out (apart from a few tools etc) & I have a spare vignette, I plan to go the Calais>Luxembourg(cheap fuel)>Basel> Milan route.
But coming back on 1st December, to avoid any custom hassles I plan to avoid Switzerland. So didn’t know whether to go the French way Turin>Lyon or maybe go via Austria Brenner pass.
Or maybe there’s a better way???
Thanks in advance
Where in Italy? Milano?
Few hundred extra km running Frejus or Mt Blanc, plus the FR peages are likely more expensive than going Swiss as on your way there.
How difficult is it running own goods through Swiss now? Talk to agents on your way south? Can you seal the van body?
Any extra trouble might well save a bit of cash and time.
Get on the www and check out km travelled,(hence fuel) peages and tunnel tickets. No short cut to a couple of hrs research.
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Going south of Bologna.
Re going through Switzerland, I am told, that like at the UK border, there’s no distinction between your own goods and commercial.
At the Swiss border a friend got charged tax on the value of the goods on entering and got refunded in CHF (helpful, NOT!) on leaving, so whilst shorter and fuel/toll saving, the aggravation factor makes it for me not worthwhile. However rules may have changed hence posting for advice on here.
Going Brenner route is 905 miles, cost with tolls €313, time 14hrs. Going France is 865 miles, cost with tolls €394, time 13.5hrs. So not a lot in it and interested to know what other people decide to do.
There is always the option of exiting Italy at Venitimillia / Menton and then heading north from Marseille missing out all the mountain tolls. But you’d pick up more Autoroute tolls because it’s a longer way round, I did it once when heavy with an artic and time was not an issue. I would have thought in a van, where the fuel penalty in the mountains is nothing like that of an LGV, that Frejus would be your best bet.
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Thanks for the alternative idea, but you’re right, with a van, Frejus is probably a good bet.
Don’t get duty being payable on own goods in transit at any point.Use a shipping agent to raise an ATA carnet ?.
You’ve got the option of not using any peage autoroutes and tunnels going via France.Both Austria and Switzerland have motorway vignette charges at least and the Swiss vignette ain’t cheap at minimum 1 year charge. If you go via the motorway border at Basel it’s automatically payable on entry.But not via the A road border at Vallorbe.
It’s also possible to risk using Swiss motorways without it and plead ignorance stopped but not advisable.
Having said that the Swiss motorways are an even worse joke liability than ours and not worth the money.Better to use the non motorway routes and no tolls on Simplon or St Bernard or Gotthard passes.
If you have a TIR certified vehicle, that is an option.
How many Sprinters have that with the necessary sealing points?
Quite do-able for those doing that work regularly but for a one off?
What are the current rules for snow-chains over the passes?
The time/fuel taken running the Simplon is hardly worth the saving on tolls.
Lovely route for a jolly, but not so much for working vehicle.
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You’re quite right the Carnet is not an option for my LWB Sprinter
Having also driven the passes many times, they’re not the place for a commercial vehicle.
Exactly what ‘passes’ would that be ?.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zeSiG2hT7DYbavW76?g_st=am
An ATA carnet can be used for hand luggage let alone a Sprinter van load.
I’m sure that vans loaded with camera and/or event equipment, or housewares for holiday homes are a regular feature and which all need customs clearance and ATA exemption ?.
Don’t think that ATA is only mutually inclusive with TIR in that regard or even mutually exclusive with free movement of goods within the EU, for customs exemption purposes ?.IE it’s a customs exemption protocol not a customs bond ?.
As for Simplon etc.
Being held up by the numerous trucks using it instead of the relevant tunnels is guaranteed.Admittedly obviously the winter months won’t be as easy.Which leaves Ro’s Med coastal route.
The point was that needing to pay customs duty on your own bought and paid for property, to transit UK/European borders, sounds weird ?.
While road tolls between UK Italy via France and Switzerland can be considerable but can be avoided.
Belgium, Germany and/or the non motorway untolled French and Swiss routes isn’t a bad call and is often my default choice now.
Having given up on the basket case Swiss motorway system at least, being infested with laughable speed limits and lane closures, making the Swiss motorway vignette a total pointless rip off during my most recent trip.
With the seemingly permanent nature of the lane closures and even motorway closures, leading to the conclusion of road rationing not ‘roadworks’.
In all cases I think we are talking about a private <3.5t van, being used for non commercial purposes, hauling own goods ?.Just like a motorhome ?.
Event equipment and cameras for film crews are not exempt from any rules. They are best covered by ATA carnets as temporary imports.
Pretty much any sealed container can be used. If the van had got sealing points then it might be OK. Strictly it would need a TIR certificate and plate. It would surely be subject to document inspection and sealing at entry and exit of Swiss.
Hardly worth the hassle.
Switzerland is not in the EU, although it is in EFTA, which is why this discussion is taking place.
So what? If I go to France in my car, buy myself over £390 worth of goods and return to the UK I must declare the goods (before arrival) and may pay tax on it.
Welcome to the Brexit ,sir.
EDIT.
If those goods are all from the EU the rate may be zero % but they must be declared.
Back on trucks, I have driven the Simplon in a truck, but I wouldn’t choose to do so if going from UK to Bologna.
In my case it was because of a delivery in Swiss as part of a multi dropper.
And NO!, I am not going to get into groupage loads vs straight runs again.
To add if goods being moved under ATA protocol, are supposedly still subject to customs bond in transit and customs payment on arrival at final destination, then what’s the point of using ATA ?.
So the conclusion is since BREXIT any international transport between UK and Italy requires a TIR spec vehicle under the TIR customs bond protocol.Especially if going via Switzerland.
Regardless of own goods being carried under ATA exemption protocol.
Which leaves the question of the best route avoiding Switzerland.
Obviously via France or Austria in that case.
Have I missed something ?.
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That’s exactly the question I need answering 
The Brenner isn’t a bad option.That or Simplon or St Bernard or sometimes Timmelsjoch are my default choices for Italy.I usually avoid France, other than getting to Belgium, either way.
Menton and Ventimiglia is a long way round but might be a good call if bad winter weather in Alps.
But I don’t get the customs issue.
You’re not the only one!
I went through the Swiss Zoll app to pay any tax due, actually straightforward, but getting it refunded was so involved that it’s not worth the hassle.
Then of course, since Brexit, I now have to pay tax on bringing back all my possessions I bought (and paid tax on) in the UK, which really hurts and then to really rub it in, the paperwork is a real nightmare. I spent half an hour on the phone yesterday to HMRC to clarify how to do it and they ended the call with ‘good luck’ 
We used to use T-forms for Swiss. Whatever happened to T-forms?
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Paying customs duty on own goods in transit across borders and paying import duty on goods bought here and used abroad and then repatriated sounds nuts.
It would be worth talking to a shipping agent as to possible ATA status and protocol being applied to the load.
By definition I don’t think goods moved under ATA need any duties payable anywhere nor any customs bond and seal as part of that.It’s a customs ‘exemption’ protocol not a customs bond.