The sad truth is that everyone thinks they are entitled to more wages than they are getting, at all levels in the payment pyramid. Unfortunately the economy has become so unbalanced over the past 30 to 40 years that the financial services sector has gained prominence and has paid itself totally unrealistic and unsustainable “bonuses”. This whole bonus culture is a mega-disaster in-waiting. Ok. if I’m a salesman going out selling and exceed my selling targets then a bonus is my incentive, but to pay bonuses to the police and NHS managers for meeting ‘targets’ is a nonsense. The police report that crime is going down, laughable. Haver you tried reporting a crime recently? I have twice, and trying to explain to the numpty’s on the front desk at the cop shop was like trying to plait sawdust. I have solid proof of a serious crime against me but I gave up trying to report it in the end because of the stupid people I was trying to deal with.
As someone who had sucessfully predicted the 2008 financial crisis, mark my words, we are not through with all this yet and there’s a lot more pain to come starting with the collapse of the Euro next year.
And sorry Dennis I have to disagree with you, the rot really set in with Leyland Group products a bit later than you said, I’d put it about 1973-4, when build quality from all assembly plants deteriorated substantially. The late Ron Sinclair told me of a visit he made to Southall and he was an AEC operator through and through, but had already picked up on his own PDI checks of new chassis that things were going down hill. What he saw at Southall and shoddy assembly, for a variety of reasons not all of which were labour force related, put him off buying any more AECs and he switched to DAF.
Ford gm and chryslers main problems over recent years was mainly due to the junk tgey sold in the states and had there arse kicked by the japs.
They have in the main turned to there european arms to produce better cars other than the pick up and muscle car market which they have sorted.
newmercman:
One of the main reasons behind Ford and GM switching production to European (German) plants was because they actually built cars in Germany rather than going on strike!
Blimey I thought that strikes were just supposed to be a Leyland problem according to all your previous comments.The fact is,as I’ve said,the Brits wouldn’t have needed to strike if they were getting German wages for the same work and when all of the circumstances, concerning all of those car manufacturers,are taken into account,your argument,concerning the Leyland workforce wrecking their own employment,starts to look a lot less credible.While it just reinforces mine in that the whole thing was a conspiracy by the British and US governments to keep ze Germans happy in case they all went running off to the Russians for a better deal or maybe even started goose stepping around the place again ready for another go.Which is actually also why Heath took us into the EEC.
kr79:
Ford gm and chryslers main problems over recent years was mainly due to the junk tgey sold in the states and had there arse kicked by the japs.
They have in the main turned to there european arms to produce better cars other than the pick up and muscle car market which they have sorted.
As I remember it,at least in the case of Ford and GM,they were large firms producing reasonably good value for money rwd cars,both in Europe and North America,who then went seriously down market in everything but price,in the form of zb front wheel drive products instead of producing the decent rwd range of cars that they were producing previously.There’s a pattern there if you want to look for it.The fact is,at least in the case of GM,it had to turn to it’s Australian Holden division to keep it’s credibility in the so called ‘muscle car’ ( what I call reasonable rwd car ) sector having thrown away it’s manufacturing capacity to make such cars in the European and North American markets.The problem being the strength of the Australian dollar against every one else’s falling currency and tarrifs put on Australian imports.Which now means paying around £50,000 for what is effectively just a logical development of what Opel Omega/Vauxhall Carlton range would have been.
gingerfold:
The sad truth is that everyone thinks they are entitled to more wages than they are getting, at all levels in the payment pyramid. Unfortunately the economy has become so unbalanced over the past 30 to 40 years that the financial services sector has gained prominence and has paid itself totally unrealistic and unsustainable “bonuses”. This whole bonus culture is a mega-disaster in-waiting. Ok. if I’m a salesman going out selling and exceed my selling targets then a bonus is my incentive, but to pay bonuses to the police and NHS managers for meeting ‘targets’ is a nonsense. The police report that crime is going down, laughable. Haver you tried reporting a crime recently? I have twice, and trying to explain to the numpty’s on the front desk at the cop shop was like trying to plait sawdust. I have solid proof of a serious crime against me but I gave up trying to report it in the end because of the stupid people I was trying to deal with.
As someone who had sucessfully predicted the 2008 financial crisis, mark my words, we are not through with all this yet and there’s a lot more pain to come starting with the collapse of the Euro next year.
I think it’s more an issue of the bankers and share dealers etc having always thought that they deserve the biggest slice of the cake at the expense of everyone else who actually produce the goods and the wealth.As for your idea that the issue is that ‘everyone’ is overpaid I suggest that you check out the continuing fall of wages in most of the economy relative to prices in real terms since the unions were defeated and Britain’s industrial wealth creating sector was thrown away and the effect which that has had,and continues to have,on Britain’s economic growth figures.
newmercman:
One of the main reasons behind Ford and GM switching production to European (German) plants was because they actually built cars in Germany rather than going on strike!
Blimey I thought that strikes were just supposed to be a Leyland problem according to all your previous comments.The fact is,as I’ve said,the Brits wouldn’t have needed to strike if they were getting German wages for the same work and when all of the circumstances, concerning all of those car manufacturers,are taken into account,your argument,concerning the Leyland workforce wrecking their own employment,starts to look a lot less credible.While it just reinforces mine in that the whole thing was a conspiracy by the British and US governments to keep ze Germans happy in case they all went running off to the Russians for a better deal or maybe even started goose stepping around the place again ready for another go.Which is actually also why Heath took us into the EEC.
Geoffrey stop being a ■■■■ Anyone who read a paper or watched the news in the 70s will be aware that the unions had everyone striking at the drop of a hat. Winter of Discontent anyone
Union thoughts were that if they could eliminate competition in the form of import tariffs and quotas, they could have a captive audience. Can you imagine the power this would have given the Unions
As I said Ford and GM also suffered unrest, but they were in a better position than BL as they could transfer production to their European Plants, which allowed them to retain/improve market share. Funnily enough, production problems in British Plants was to become less of a problem, the German Plants put things together properly so that the lack of warranty claims for poorly built vehicles more than compensated for the increased labour costs
All those ‘lucky’ Germans, the harder and better they worked, the ‘luckier’ they became
kr79:
Ford gm and chryslers main problems over recent years was mainly due to the junk tgey sold in the states and had there arse kicked by the japs.
They have in the main turned to there european arms to produce better cars other than the pick up and muscle car market which they have sorted.
As I remember it,at least in the case of Ford and GM,they were large firms producing reasonably good value for money rwd cars,both in Europe and North America,who then went seriously down market in everything but price,in the form of zb front wheel drive products instead of producing the decent rwd range of cars that they were producing previously.There’s a pattern there if you want to look for it.The fact is,at least in the case of GM,it had to turn to it’s Australian Holden division to keep it’s credibility in the so called ‘muscle car’ ( what I call reasonable rwd car ) sector having thrown away it’s manufacturing capacity to make such cars in the European and North American markets.The problem being the strength of the Australian dollar against every one else’s falling currency and tarrifs put on Australian imports.Which now means paying around £50,000 for what is effectively just a logical development of what Opel Omega/Vauxhall Carlton range would have been.
Do you honestly believe most people give a crap what wheels drive a car. The vauxhall vxr8 wouldnt be a big seller here at half its price as more people want a car that does60 mpg than 0 to 60 in 5 seconds.
Most people look at a car at what size suitd there needs how much it costs to buy and run and how reliable its likely to be.
The reason someone buys a 3 series bmw over a mondeo in most cases is the blue propeller keyring looks a bit more flash than the blue oval down the pub.
Most bmw drivers probaly dont know its rwd until they are entering a hedge backwards on a wet day.
I think it’s more an issue of the bankers and share dealers etc having always thought that they deserve the biggest slice of the cake at the expense of everyone else who actually produce the goods and the wealth.As for your idea that the issue is that ‘everyone’ is overpaid I suggest that you check out the continuing fall of wages in most of the economy relative to prices in real terms since the unions were defeated and Britain’s industrial wealth creating sector was thrown away and the effect which that has had,and continues to have,on Britain’s economic growth figures.
[/quote]
No, I’m not saying that everyone is overpaid, there are some in the workforce that are underpaid, but there are many, many more overpaid and in the public and private sectors. And, yes I’m fully aware that the buying power of wages today is steadily being eroded and not keeping pace with rises in the cost of living. Where they get the inflation statistics from at present is anyone’s guess. I’ve been at my present employer for 5 years and not had a pay increase in that time, and I’m not on any sort of bonus scheme. And compared with my salary of the 1980s, in real terms my salary today is probably worth about 50% of the buying power I had in the '80s. and yes, I admit I was overpaid then and the company I worked for no longer exists.
newmercman:
One of the main reasons behind Ford and GM switching production to European (German) plants was because they actually built cars in Germany rather than going on strike!
Blimey I thought that strikes were just supposed to be a Leyland problem according to all your previous comments.The fact is,as I’ve said,the Brits wouldn’t have needed to strike if they were getting German wages for the same work and when all of the circumstances, concerning all of those car manufacturers,are taken into account,your argument,concerning the Leyland workforce wrecking their own employment,starts to look a lot less credible.While it just reinforces mine in that the whole thing was a conspiracy by the British and US governments to keep ze Germans happy in case they all went running off to the Russians for a better deal or maybe even started goose stepping around the place again ready for another go.Which is actually also why Heath took us into the EEC.
Geoffrey stop being a [zb] Anyone who read a paper or watched the news in the 70s will be aware that the unions had everyone striking at the drop of a hat. Winter of Discontent anyone
Union thoughts were that if they could eliminate competition in the form of import tariffs and quotas, they could have a captive audience. Can you imagine the power this would have given the Unions
As I said Ford and GM also suffered unrest, but they were in a better position than BL as they could transfer production to their European Plants, which allowed them to retain/improve market share. Funnily enough, production problems in British Plants was to become less of a problem, the German Plants put things together properly so that the lack of warranty claims for poorly built vehicles more than compensated for the increased labour costs
All those ‘lucky’ Germans, the harder and better they worked, the ‘luckier’ they became
That’s not a totally accurate acount of the 1970’s as I remember it.Yes you’re right in that anyone who read the Sun or Daily Mail etc etc and believed it all would have blamed the situation at the time on militant striking workers.However anyone,with a bit more intelligence than that and who actually had to do the work,as one of those so called ‘militant workers’,rather than the unproductive overpaid hypocrites ( just like the bankers etc ) at those papers who just wrote bs articles about what the workers were doing and why,knew different.
As I’ve said the strikes during the 1970’s were all about British workers ( rightly ) saying no when the government,bankers and shareholders were expecting more work for less pay in real terms at least as usual in regards to everyone on the shop floor but not themselves.The fact is you’ve now got your free market economy and neutered unions and all the work in Europe is now done either by ze Germans or the cheap labour east european countries,if not outsourced to even cheaper labour in Asia etc,and we’ve now got the economic figures to prove it as opposed to those of 1972.
Which just leaves the disagreement between us concerning ( as you see it ) the Germans being treated better by the bankers and US and UK governments because they’re better,as opposed ( to how I see it ) because (1) the paranoid yanks thought ze Germans would run off to join the Russians and the Brits,like Heath,were zb scared that ze Germans would start another war if they weren’t given everything they wanted,in this case ironically at the British workers expense.
kr79:
Ford gm and chryslers main problems over recent years was mainly due to the junk tgey sold in the states and had there arse kicked by the japs.
They have in the main turned to there european arms to produce better cars other than the pick up and muscle car market which they have sorted.
As I remember it,at least in the case of Ford and GM,they were large firms producing reasonably good value for money rwd cars,both in Europe and North America,who then went seriously down market in everything but price,in the form of zb front wheel drive products instead of producing the decent rwd range of cars that they were producing previously.There’s a pattern there if you want to look for it.The fact is,at least in the case of GM,it had to turn to it’s Australian Holden division to keep it’s credibility in the so called ‘muscle car’ ( what I call reasonable rwd car ) sector having thrown away it’s manufacturing capacity to make such cars in the European and North American markets.The problem being the strength of the Australian dollar against every one else’s falling currency and tarrifs put on Australian imports.Which now means paying around £50,000 for what is effectively just a logical development of what Opel Omega/Vauxhall Carlton range would have been.
Do you honestly believe most people give a crap what wheels drive a car. The vauxhall vxr8 wouldnt be a big seller here at half its price as more people want a car that does60 mpg than 0 to 60 in 5 seconds.
Most people look at a car at what size suitd there needs how much it costs to buy and run and how reliable its likely to be.
The reason someone buys a 3 series bmw over a mondeo in most cases is the blue propeller keyring looks a bit more flash than the blue oval down the pub.
Most bmw drivers probaly dont know its rwd until they are entering a hedge backwards on a wet day.
Obviously the fortunes of Mercedes and BMW v those of BL,GM and Ford seem to prove me right.As for the Australian Commodore range the VXR8 is actually at the top of that range there’s also plenty of lesser powered models available at least in Australia.The 3.0 V6 for example is capable of more than 30 mpg which is around the same as I get from a 1.8 Litre Zafira.
Its the image people buy in to. Fords build quality has improved dramatacly in recent years but the bmw badge has more kudos.
Turn up at the golfclub or picking up the kids from school a mondeo top of the range model is still seen as a common old ford turn up in a poverty spec 320 and people will automatacly think its better and its the badge not what wheels drive it
kr79:
Its the image people buy in to. Fords build quality has improved dramatacly in recent years but the bmw badge has more kudos.
Turn up at the golfclub or picking up the kids from school a mondeo top of the range model is still seen as a common old ford turn up in a poverty spec 320 and people will automatacly think its better and its the badge not what wheels drive it
I’m on my 19th Ford (a Mondeo) in 44 years of motoring and car ownership. In my company car days I drove 50 to 60,000 miles every year. Why do I stick with Fords? Simple answer, they are reliable and cheap to run. Routine servicing is all they have cost me and in all that time I’ve had three breakdowns, all of which were warranty claims. My current Mondeo will be 6 years old in September and is still on its original brake pads and discs. I don’t care about the image a car portrays, it’s about reliability and running costs with me. (Just like road haulage). My wife has a Range Rover Vogue, and I’ve driven it twice in three years.
hey,Germany against England an internet WW III,I think ever country has it goods and bads. But I preffered driving in Britain before Germany. in the early days we said often rather backwards to France as forwards to Germany. And they have strong laws even from the '50’s. And yes the Germans don’t strike much but their unions have nearly no power and if they try to strike sometimes they warn you as you do it we will take you hard (ruin you). And wages if the workforce is well paid he spend well and so works it. Maybe Germans and Dutchman ear more as we but at the end we have more nett and isn’t that what counts. Living in Germany looks better but is it they have to pay high taxes,and for all thing we have to pay for in only the last 15 years or so they do it for decennies.Even you are not allowed to drive a vintage artic to an event on sunday . You can not believe all what they say on TV, but the German people were the poorest of Europe. Nearly all have to rent a house against we here nearly all have an own house,but yes nowadays it is nearly unpayable in belgium. And look the man in the street drives no bigger car as we or in Britain. The gras looks mostly greener on the other site but is it realy so NO. And some have a bigger car or something elso but have to work more for it. I preffer to have some less but a good life for the time we are here.
I’m only jealous of a country with better weather .
Ive had a few fords and had the same experince. Thats what ford got right in the 60s that BL didnt. They kept it simple and kept there models fresh looks wise but keep the technical side simple until new technology proved itself.
kr79:
Its the image people buy in to. Fords build quality has improved dramatacly in recent years but the bmw badge has more kudos.
Turn up at the golfclub or picking up the kids from school a mondeo top of the range model is still seen as a common old ford turn up in a poverty spec 320 and people will automatacly think its better and its the badge not what wheels drive it
Back in the day I think the 3.0 Litre Granada had a lot more ‘kudos’ than an Audi 100 and you’d have saved £30 for the privilege.
You won’t pull driving one of those Geoffrey, the people carrier is the ultimate ■■■■■■ repellent
The check out girls don’t generally see what car you’re using to collect the shopping with and all the rest in the car park are usually old married housewives.While the Jag is generally travelling too fast for anyone to even notice it.
. You can not believe all what they say on TV, but the German people were the poorest of Europe. Nearly all have to rent a house against we here nearly all have an own house,but yes nowadays it is nearly unpayable in belgium. And look the man in the street drives no bigger car as we or in Britain. The gras looks mostly greener on the other site but is it realy so NO. And some have a bigger car or something elso but have to work more for it. I preffer to have some less but a good life for the time we are here.
.