Many thanks for those replies, chaps. At least we can leave out the issue of wheel configuration from the selecting of icons! Robert
David Miller:
Mike is right, few UK operators had 6 wheel tractor units but on Oryx Freightlines all the tractors , with the exception of a few Scanias left over from J&T, they were all 6 wheelers but split 50/50 between 6x2 lift axles and 6x4.
I suspect this was not as the result of any decision but more that to get 30 odd 6 wheeler F89s in a hurry it was a case of taking what they had. As further to that the 6x4s were on Trilex wheels so were probably built for export.
I drove a 6x2 but often ran with 6x4s and on the desert the 6x2 was a little better unless you were really heavy loaded in which case the 6x4 truimphed.
Mike is right it was as much personal preference as anything.David
Have a gander at the ERF European 1975 thread at the pic of an Oryx Volvo at Harem Istanbul - is it you? Robert
Perhaps this was David Miller too!! Robert
As far as I was concerned the Ultimate Reliable Truck to run to the Middle East
was the (DAF 2800 6X4) Photographed New & Parked in H4 enroute to Saudi.
Scotnat:
As far as I was concerned the Ultimate Reliable Truck to run to the Middle East
was the (DAF 2800 6X4) Photographed New & Parked in H4 enroute to Saudi.
Also possibly with the bonus of Fuller or 12 speed ZF constant mesh spec over the Swedes. 
Carryfast:
Scotnat:
As far as I was concerned the Ultimate Reliable Truck to run to the Middle East
was the (DAF 2800 6X4) Photographed New & Parked in H4 enroute to Saudi.Also possibly with the bonus of Fuller or 12 speed ZF constant mesh spec over the Swedes.
True, but the Fuller-13 installation was nowhere as good as it was in an ERF or MAN 
. Robert
Evening all,
Super posts, and great comments…Now, I wonder just how many people actually made a semi, or permanent living living on this work?
There were the bigger operators, and there were the little men…but just how many? The posts concerning vehicles seem to be concentrating on late 70s, and early 80s onwards equipment, (most of which to my aged eyes seems quite current…that 2800 DAF, I could jump into her and go anywhere)…but there were so many before, and with all sorts of kit, and amongst that kit must have been the really odd ball stuff like Hutpiks ERF…but that was quite modern!..what of the earlier stuff?..any of you really experienced men have any knowledge, or even pictures?
It strikes me that the operations from the UK were by numerically smaller fleet operators than our European cousins. Particularly in the case of Iraq. Am I right or wrong? Just who were the largest UK based operators…and there were a fair few rogues as well…who were they?..Bet I can have a fairly accurate guess at that!
Cheerio for now.
Hi all.I have to disagree about the DAF 2800 being so good,ok the reliability was good but they were crap to drive in the winter.The gearbox was hopeless when climbing hills in the snow and ice due to the inability for fast Changes,compared to volvo or Scania.And the double drive system was crap being an inter axle lock as opposed to a normal diff lock and cross lock.I was Always the first to chain up,and this meant fitting 4 chains instead of just 2 on the back axle,so it was less than impressive.[somewherE there is a pic of the IT Holland daf,maybe Robert can find it,he’s good]
As to that ERF\HMC,it was originally built in 1964 and re-registered later so it wasn’t exactly ‘‘super modern’’.
Yes in the early Days there was a good living to be made but,like all things,as it became more popular and busy so everybody began undercutting each other and it very quickly Went the way of all good things.Example- in 1974 i was paid £6000 from London to Riyhad and £1500 back load.
At that time there were no taxes for Austria,YU,BG,TR and a new F89 cost about £12000.Work it out.
I suppose Asian\Astran [with subbies]were among the biggest,Oryx freight,Frank White,Welsh Int,[for a short time]Macniels of Glasgow and maybe Taffy Davies.Abroad- Maybe Rynarts,Buitellar,Vos,Stouff,Torben Rafn,and of course all the EE ''state co’s.Willie Betz in in a class of it’s own.
hutpik:
Hi all.I have to disagree about the DAF 2800 being so good,ok the reliability was good but they were crap to drive in the winter.The gearbox was hopeless when climbing hills in the snow and ice due to the inability for fast Changes,compared to volvo or Scania.And the double drive system was crap being an inter axle lock as opposed to a normal diff lock and cross lock.I was Always the first to chain up,and this meant fitting 4 chains instead of just 2 on the back axle,so it was less than impressive.[somewherE there is a pic of the IT Holland daf,maybe Robert can find it,he’s good]
As to that ERF\HMC,it was originally built in 1964 and re-registered later so it wasn’t exactly ‘‘super modern’’.
Yes in the early Days there was a good living to be made but,like all things,as it became more popular and busy so everybody began undercutting each other and it very quickly Went the way of all good things.Example- in 1974 i was paid £6000 from London to Riyhad and £1500 back load.
At that time there were no taxes for Austria,YU,BG,TR and a new F89 cost about £12000.Work it out.
I suppose Asian\Astran [with subbies]were among the biggest,Oryx freight,Frank White,Welsh Int,[for a short time]Macniels of Glasgow and maybe Taffy Davies.Abroad- Maybe Rynarts,Buitellar,Vos,Stouff,Torben Rafn,and of course all the EE ''state co’s.Willie Betz in in a class of it’s own.
Hello Hutpik,
Welsh International, Alf Fitzpatrick…I was emplored by one of our Dealers to go down to Cardiff when I was back on leave in the UK to try to collect a fairly large debt, that they simply could not get paid.
So my wife and child in the car, we had a trip down to sunny Cardiff, (my Dealer had offered me all my costs…plus), if I could get the cash for him! Penarth Road, a tin shed, a pleasant fellow, a cheque book, a hand shake, …job done!..and the cheque paid out…and we as a family had tea in a superb Italian resterraunt in Penarth…built from that stone that the Welsh Colliers used as ballast back from South America, beautiful colour, with a wonderful cast iron balcony!
Grief…Stouff…I still have nightmares…over 400 Berliets…most never paid for…a lot never found…Hutpik…I w`ont sleep tonight…(but a great tale for another night)…
Yes, those DAF cabs were cold devils…but quite handsome, and on rental quite cheap to run.
I need an extra Bollinger…memories of Stouff to obliterate…
Cheerio for now.
A few more ‘big’ co’s i forgot.Cantrells,Mavertons,Thor,Birddale… Stolk,Centrum,Friderici.Lommerts,Hangartner.What was considered ‘big’.It must depend on the country and what they had to export.Many of these co’s were ‘big’ but for a short time due to changing circumstances.I mean for example IT.Holland \Afghan Int could be considered big with 15 truck as they specialised in Afghanistan,but generally speaking were small.
No doubt others will remember more.
Thinking about Saviem’s excellent Point about the size of co’s takes me back to the Point of this post.In the early 70s the explosion of wealth that was being spent by the ME countries made logic just go ‘‘out the window’’.A normal ‘‘Joe Average’’ transport co who was making a ‘‘living’’ was suddenly confronted by the possibility of making ‘‘potentially’’ vast profits for work which,due to lack of knowledge and naievity seemed not more difficult than the work they were already doing.This thinking led to the thought ‘‘if i can make £3000 profit with one truck,if i buy 10 then i have £30,000’’.Therein lies the problem though,if you have 1 truck you have 100 percent Control,if however you have 10 trucks then you only have 10 percent Control,the other 90percent of your ‘‘potential’’ profit being in the in the hands of the drivers you employ.As we all know no 2 people are the same which led to so many co’s disappearing in short order.Due to this factor it must make it very difficult to define a ‘‘best’’ truck for the ME as the driving standards were so diverse and the way the trucks were treated was accordingly different.
Here you go Mike!
Morning Robert.
The Harem picture was not me - I never remember pulling the blue rental trailer - and neither was the picture on H4 which, if you look, has Trilex wheels and therefore was a 6x4. The 6x2s were all on steel wheels.
However I did take that picture and the driver was Butch Levet. That was a nice trip, there were 4 Oryx, a Butraco, Gerry Wheelan who had a Mercedes and various others and we all parked up for the night in the middle of the desert. Now thats peace and quiet!
It was also the trip I took my best mate Derek Greenaway of Cannon Commercials along for a ride to Doha and he ended up getting ‘volunteered’ to drive a Daf 2200 that had been dumped back home. They sent us up to Girisun to load nuts and we got snowed in there and at several points in East Europe resulting in missing the last ferry for Christmas. Happy days.
David
It is interesting that Hutpik mentions the figure of £6000 for an outbound ME load. That is precisely the figure I remember being bandied about at the time, but the amount of profit was very much the unknown quantity for the operators I knew who considered taking the work on. As with all types of newish transport ventures (as it still was in say 1970) it attracted both reputable established operators and risk takers and chancers, which made for some “colourful” characters becoming involved. I remember one Yorkshireman actually coming to visit some of the smaller Bolton hauliers I knew and offering them untold riches if they signed up with him for ME work. I don’t think any of them signed up with him. The former owner of the company I work for now did half a dozen or so ME runs in the early 1980s for £5500 outbound and what he could get coming back, usually out of Turkey. He says he made money out of it (but then again he would say that!) but the work was in serious decline by then for a subbie, as he was, due to undercutting and the unknown factor of how long it was going to take to complete the round trip. By then border crossing delays could last for days.
David Miller:
Morning Robert.
The Harem picture was not me - I never remember pulling the blue rental trailer - and neither was the picture on H4 which, if you look, has Trilex wheels and therefore was a 6x4. The 6x2s were all on steel wheels.
However I did take that picture and the driver was Butch Levet. That was a nice trip, there were 4 Oryx, a Butraco, Gerry Wheelan who had a Mercedes and various others and we all parked up for the night in the middle of the desert. Now thats peace and quiet!
It was also the trip I took my best mate Derek Greenaway of Cannon Commercials along for a ride to Doha and he ended up getting ‘volunteered’ to drive a Daf 2200 that had been dumped back home. They sent us up to Girisun to load nuts and we got snowed in there and at several points in East Europe resulting in missing the last ferry for Christmas. Happy days.David
Thanks for that reply, David! Cheers, Robert
Fred Archer had a fleet of 16 when I was there. 10 Scanias and 6 Mercs. He started out on his fathers skip company and like many; jumped in at the deep end and started running to the Middle-East. Some of the trucks had an international operators licence disc proudly stating “Archers Quick Skips.” Fred never had any problems getting permits and we never used the train. In fact I can remember when he gave me 4 German permits for one December trip. Asking that I got them all stamped [ one in, one out, then coming back, one in, one out] because he didn’t want to loose the next years allocation. But Fred did have trouble finding good drivers and keeping them; he would go through 50 drivers practically every year. He made good money in the early days and had a lot of good work direct but in the end they stopped paying running money up-front, the rates dropped and they started using people like SOMAT and Hungarocamion.
ChrisArbon:
But Fred did have trouble finding good drivers and keeping them; he would go through 50 drivers practically every year.
Possibly a result of the closed shop nature of the international running scene.In which bs claims of international ‘experience’ or knowing the right people too often counted for more than just honest wanting to climb the ladder from uk work.
Carryfast:
ChrisArbon:
But Fred did have trouble finding good drivers and keeping them; he would go through 50 drivers practically every year.Possibly a result of the closed shop nature of the international running scene.In which bs claims of international ‘experience’ or knowing the right people too often counted for more than just honest wanting to climb the ladder from uk work.
You’re crediting hauliers with the manipulative organisational skills of the unions, CF. It was surely every man for himself among hauliers and owner-drivers in those days. I would suggest that you might consult a certain Micky Permitz on this subject. 
Robert
ChrisArbon:
0Fred Archer had a fleet of 16 when I was there. 10 Scanias and 6 Mercs. He started out on his fathers skip company and like many; jumped in at the deep end and started running to the Middle-East. Some of the trucks had an international operators licence disc proudly stating “Archers Quick Skips.” Fred never had any problems getting permits and we never used the train. In fact I can remember when he gave me 4 German permits for one December trip. Asking that I got them all stamped [ one in, one out, then coming back, one in, one out] because he didn’t want to loose the next years allocation. But Fred did have trouble finding good drivers and keeping them; he would go through 50 drivers practically every year. He made good money in the early days and had a lot of good work direct but in the end they stopped paying running money up-front, the rates dropped and they started using people like SOMAT and Hungarocamion.
Chris, I assume that 4x2 Merc NG had the normal drive-line, unlike its sister I mentioned earlier! Robert
Carryfast:
ChrisArbon:
But Fred did have trouble finding good drivers and keeping them; he would go through 50 drivers practically every year.Possibly a result of the closed shop nature of the international running scene.In which bs claims of international ‘experience’ or knowing the right people too often counted for more than just honest wanting to climb the ladder from uk work.
Carryfast, I’m sure Fred would have given you a job if you had turned up at his Portacabin and asked. The main reasons for the high turnover of drivers was because it was hard work, the pay was poor [you could earn more on containers out of Felixstowe] and Fred wasn’t a very good boss. A driver wouldn’t go straight onto M/E work unless he had the right stamps in his passport. You would start by doing traction work in the UK for Willi Betz with the unaccompanied SOMAT trailers. Then you would started doing Italy or Germany before progressing onto M/E work when he thought he could trust you. On the first M/E trip you could expect to go down with an experienced driver although Fred messed that up by sending me down with another first-timer. It didn’t really matter because he had permits for the commie-blok and mine were for Austria and Yugo. Archers gave many drivers a start in international work. Some came and stayed; some came and messed-up; some came for just a one-trip experience, some didn’t like it and some found a better company to work for while they were down there. Don’t be bitter.