The company I worked for in 1975 JMM international near Buckingham had what must have been one of the first 320 V8 Berliets in the uk on european work, the driver who had it from new liked it much better than the 6 wheeler F88 he had been driving.
Evening all,a little bit more on the Berliet half of RVI. NZjamie has put up an interesting vehicle, the Detroit powered TR. Prior to the state enforced merger/takeover of Saviem and Berliet, Paul Berliet had seen the potential of the Antipodean lorry market, and a small facility had been established in Australia to assemble limited CKD kits from France. Requirements for local content, and a recognition of the limited acceptance value of the standard product, led to the fitment of V8 Detroits. How many vehicles were built I know not, but I have a feeling that the operation did not last much after the merger. These were not the only “odd ball” specs that came about. Berliet had a number of , plants, and assembly facilities throughout the Globe, amongst them, South America, several in Africa, and also China. S.O.N.A.C.O.M. in Algeria produced Berliet models, but fitted with Deutz air cooled engines. All tractor units assembled in Chile, Peru,and Colombia were fitted with Eaton Gearboxes, as were early UK spec tractors. [ZB], both Saviem and Berliet had their own gearbox production facilities. Saviems heavyweight box being the Type350, 10speed synchromesh splitter,lastly used behind the R6T2666. 11.4litre MAN engine @310hp in the PS30. Berliet had gone the non synchro route with the range change BM8, but for 1981 onward this was superceeded by the twin countershaft B9 synchromesh 8speed with the addition of a deep reduction crawler. The B9 was a very compact gearbox, designed to be marketed to other vehicle manufacturers in competition with Eaton and ZF, as well as being fitted to the RVI heavy range. During 1981, following successful trials an overdrive splitter was produced , giving an 18speed range. I think that in the UK this was shown at the 1982 NEC show on an R310. Yes I agree with all the comments about “across the range indents”, used to make my arm ache! In France we got a sliding collar about 1981 for the range change. That was when everything wherever produced, Blainville, Venissieux, Limoge, was badged Renault, (and Berliet and Saviem grill badges became hot sellers in Dealers parts departments)! It was also when the seed of what you see today as the Magnum were sowed, with the inauguration of the" Project Virage", a six year French Government /RVI, design and engineering project valued at 150million FF, amongst whose objectives were, a reduction in fuel use at 38tonnes of between 27/32% on a 1981 base,noise reduction from 90 to 80db,and I quote from Georges Freyssinet`s conference notes, “for comfort, tommorows chauffer will have nothing to envy in a private car”!! Well they got something right! Cheerio for now.
Evening all,a little bit more on the Berliet half of RVI. NZjamie has put up an interesting vehicle, the Detroit powered TR. Prior to the state enforced merger/takeover of Saviem and Berliet, Paul Berliet had seen the potential of the Antipodean lorry market, and a small facility had been established in Australia to assemble limited CKD kits from France. Requirements for local content, and a recognition of the limited acceptance value of the standard product, led to the fitment of V8 Detroits. How many vehicles were built I know not, but I have a feeling that the operation did not last much after the merger. These were not the only “odd ball” specs that came about. Berliet had a number of , plants, and assembly facilities throughout the Globe, amongst them, South America, several in Africa, and also China. S.O.N.A.C.O.M. in Algeria produced Berliet models, but fitted with Deutz air cooled engines. All tractor units assembled in Chile, Peru,and Colombia were fitted with Eaton Gearboxes, as were early UK spec tractors. [ZB], both Saviem and Berliet had their own gearbox production facilities. Saviems heavyweight box being the Type350, 10speed synchromesh splitter,lastly used behind the R6T2666. 11.4litre MAN engine @310hp in the PS30. Berliet had gone the non synchro route with the range change BM8, but for 1981 onward this was superceeded by the twin countershaft B9 synchromesh 8speed with the addition of a deep reduction crawler. The B9 was a very compact gearbox, designed to be marketed to other vehicle manufacturers in competition with Eaton and ZF, as well as being fitted to the RVI heavy range. During 1981, following successful trials an overdrive splitter was produced , giving an 18speed range. I think that in the UK this was shown at the 1982 NEC show on an R310. Yes I agree with all the comments about “across the range indents”, used to make my arm ache! In France we got a sliding collar about 1981 for the range change. That was when everything wherever produced, Blainville, Venissieux, Limoge, was badged Renault, (and Berliet and Saviem grill badges became hot sellers in Dealers parts departments)! It was also when the seed of what you see today as the Magnum were sowed, with the inauguration of the" Project Virage", a six year French Government /RVI, design and engineering project valued at 150million FF, amongst whose objectives were, a reduction in fuel use at 38tonnes of between 27/32% on a 1981 base,noise reduction from 90 to 80db,and I quote from Georges Freyssinet`s conference notes, “for comfort, tommorows chauffer will have nothing to envy in a private car”!! Well they got something right! Cheerio for now.
Sorry, tiredness rules ok, double de gamme!!
Saviem, I’m sure I’m not the only one fascinated with your in-depth knowledge of wagons that are not widely known about in the U.K. and thank you for
sharing your experiences with us.
Endit:
Saviem, I’m sure I’m not the only one fascinated with your in-depth knowledge of wagons that are not widely known about in the U.K. and thank you for
sharing your experiences with us.
I second this. Industry inside knowledge is the most interesting stuuf to appear on the forum. Full credit to Monsieur Saviem for taking the time.
Saviem:
“Project Virage”
I remember seeing one disguised in army style comoflage knocking about in the late 80’s / early 90’s.
Ross.
bigr250:
Saviem:
“Project Virage”I remember seeing one disguised in army style comoflage knocking about in the late 80’s / early 90’s.
Ross.
Didn’t Truck magazine carry some photos of the Army green Virage in 1987 or '88? I remember thinking “That will never get into production!”
Evening all, bigr250, [ZB], the green was a gloss version of NATO green, and had the amazing ability to render mundane even the most exotic vehicle, so much so that they rarely attracted a second glance. In the case of Saviem, where so many traditional manufacturers were amalgamated to form Saviem, then the clever tactic was to produce all ex factory vehicles in “Saviem Blue”, a gloss final coat on the cab, so that the vehicles original manufacturers identity was erased. This tactic worked well, far better than our own Leylands Red, Blue , Green line etc. The blue colour was heavily promoted in the Press, “The blues are coming”, “the blues are winning” etc. Also if we had any “funny”, or experimental vehicles then they merged visually with the standard product on the road, apart from our W92 trade registration. I drove a pre production PS30, but fitted with an adapted SM340 front panel, but in standard Saviem blue, with Trailor Tilt around the journal Le Poids Lourd normal test route, Paris, Bapaume, Amiens, Rouen, Paris, without attracting any undue attention. Certainly “project Virage”, the complete outfit, (for it was by necessity an integrated, tractor and trailer unit), was driven on highway regularly. How else was the theory to be tested?Aerodynamics were studied on full size vehicles at Saint Cyr,the little high speed test oval at Saint Priest was superceeded by the testing facility at La Valbonne, 30kms from Lyon, a 50hectare site with 20kms of track , and road test facilities, very similar in layout to the superb Millfield site of Vauxhall/Bedford in the UK.Valbonne was conveniently close to the main Research and development site at Saint Priest,50000sq mtrs, and late 1970s around 1100 employees engaged in all aspects of design and development of trucks above 15tonnes. To illustrate just how much effort went into R&D, in 1980 Saint Priest produced 30 absolute prototype vehicles for testing, 50engines, 40gearboxes, and 30axle sets. As a direct result of experimental work at S. P. RVI decided as policy in 1980 that no new V8 engine would be built, to replace the 16litre.T he future power needs could be met at lower cost and installed weight by development of the inline 6cyl. 1980 16litre 08.35.40.V8 produced 360hp, with designed potential of 480hp. The 6cyl 06.35.40. 12litre was in production at 305hp but had an already established test potential @400hp, with a second generation close to 500hp. At that time this amount of power was deemed " as never needing to be realised"!!The 12litre had already broken the 150gram per HP Hour barrier, a figure at that time quite sensational in real fuel economic terms. The driving force was always fuel economy, coupled to ease of use, so that any driver could achieve good results, and do so in a comfortable and safe work place. Now, the “scoop” photographs in Truck, well that is altogether another story, and not for tonight Im afraid. Bon Chance mes Amis, Cheerio for now.
Steve
That’s the one. The truck looks just the same as a production Magnum- three years before its actual launch. Renault had some guts to build a vehicle so different to the norm, and develop it so thoroughly. According to the article below, they started work in 1980. This must have been the activity that M. Saviem mentioned in his earlier post.
Afternoon all, popped in for a quick cup of tea, and yet another tank of the expensive red go go juice, but we are getting down the pile of “aromatic” sludge! I remember that Truck front cover, showing a pre production drawbar outfit, a typical long term test vehicle, she would have been run night and day, as well as many kilometers at Valbonne, and then probably dismantled in part, or totally, for wear to be evaluated by the team led by Yves Bonnetain. The Camion magazine article looks like a good evaluation of “project Virage”, V10, she was the first real integrated outfit, and I think she was shown to a select bunch of journalists around 80/81. She was surprisingly sophisticated both to drive, and in terms of actual fit and finish of the driving enviroment, not at all a lash up. The original concept envisaged a much larger living area than resulted on the production Magnum, but it was not a bad bit of design was it? Incidentally one of the best descriptions of the Maxi Couple principle was penned by my old friend, the late (mad monk) Graham Montgomerie, for Commercial Motor, I think early part of 79. He really did grasp the theory, and practical application, without “gushing” over the product. Bit of trivia, the Berliet symbol, seen on the front of the blue TR, posted by [ZB], represents the front view of the railroad steam locomotives exported to the USA by Marius Berliets company, and Berliet was first in Britain a long time ago, Bristols buses were Berliets post WW1, ah well, back to muck lugging, Cheerio for now.
The scale of the Virages/Magnum project is a credit to the management of Berliet/Renault. They invested in the design of possibly the last truly innovative commercial vehicle. What a shame that the factories will, in the future, only build adaptations of Volvo designs. Looking at the photos elsewhere on the forum of the new Volvo, it looks little different from the recently-introduced new Actros or, for that matter, the old Actros. I doubt Renault will be allowed to do anything clever this time. Hopefully, I will be proved wrong.
Saviem:
bigr250, [ZB], the green was a gloss version of NATO green,
Interesting, my recolection was at least a mat colour (if not ‘camo’) similar to the British Army & US service vehicles seen on the roads over here!! I’m also certain it was an artic rather than the drawbar on the mag’ cover & never having seen anything quite like it outside ‘Space 1999’ the puppet program, I assumed it was something exclusive to the 'over paid, over sexed & over here brigade.
Ross.
PS, Saviem, what was the profanity between the commers? just put spaces between the letters & the auto censor won’t pick it up.
Hi Ross, I think he was addressing me! As far as I know, I am the only Trucknet member with a profane username.
Here’s a link to some more Virages stuff:
[zb]
anorak:
Hi Ross, I think he was addressing me! As far as I know, I am the only Trucknet member with a profane username.Here’s a link to some more Virages stuff:
I’d bet a few operators would’ve had kittens if Renault had made the Magnum in the first picture, the white one with the coach mirrors!! A mate of mine clipped a coach and ripped one of those things off & the repair bill was £1,600 & there was no damage to the coach it’s self, only the mirrir head.
Love the last pic as well, that monster wiper would’ve left an enormous blind spot!!
Ross.
Badged as RENAULT…
Steve
The “What Went Wrong” thread seems to have “Gone Wrong”, so how about a bit more stylish French nostalgia to brighten the day?
As usual, I will end with a question for our resident expert- the inset photo shows a TR with what appears to be a sink on the engine cover, and the guts of an aircon unit on the ceiling. Did Berliet produce a factory-built “Middle East Special”, prior to Le Centaure? TR aficionados may be able to date the vehicle by the colour of the seat.
Evening all, I want, and need to go to bed!! 0400-21.30, long days for an old boy!! [ZB], old fruit, that looks like a 1976 TR320 V8, KB42 cab image. The aircon, and kitchen was a standard option, certainly specified by Tpts Stag, (TRH320. 6x4 @120tonnes), Tpts Chapuis, (TR320 4x2 @38tonnes) & rigid, Tpt Soc Bayonaise, ( GR320@ 19tonnes, or drawbar at38tonnes), a really well balanced and driveable lorry, probably one of France`s best)! Simple spec 8speed, V8 16litre 08.35.30. torque (if my memory is working), 115m.kg @1500rpm,330hp (DIN) @2300rpm. Yes, pre Centaure, but the conversion to the cab was by Lamberet, and the aircon was a licence built Kysor, by Schneebli-Chabaud, as was the night heater. Fridge Freezer of 30litres, fresh and grey water tanks. Two burner cooker, LPG bottle in seperate compartment. This was not a “knife and fork job”, but a top quality conversion even before the Le Centaure concept. Incidentally, the TRH320s 6x4 , regularly worked without difficulty, single plate clutch, B9 8speed box,hub reduction bogie, cross and intra locks, at 120 to 230tonnes, (Phillipe Brame, Tpt Stag, Tpts Zucconi, et al)) But of course these real “heavy hitters” were Willeme men at heart!! Actually those big Berliets were great lorries, and most of the customers, really great people, a real privilage to have known, and worked with them. Cheerio for now.
Merci beaucoup for another interesting response. Now, like the annoying child I once was (and still am), another question: Why was the kitchen-cab TR320 not marketed in GB (or was it)? Considering that the first TR280s came over here in 1975- the year every manufacturer and his dog was showing off their Middle East Specials- I would have thought that such a vehicle would make a great flagship, to draw attention to the marque.