Steve
Onatra Berliet TRK 10 with 180 hp and 6 gears from ZF licensed in late 1961.
michel:
Onatra Berliet TRK 10 with 180 hp and 6 gears from ZF licensed in late 1961.
I`snt that a beauty, and in the original maroon livery, thanks michel!
Cheerio for now.
neversweat1:
0Steve
Hi Steve, that is an early York conversion, great picture!!
Before the Berliet cabover, they had TLM 10 R with Eberspacher turbos about 1958.
michel:
Before the Berliet cabover, they had TLM 10 R with Eberspacher turbos about 1958.
Another excellent photo Michel -Thank you
Steve
Evening Gentlemen, michel what a great picture…and before the Berliets, (and at the same time), they had Magirus Deutz, Pluto 200s`s @35tonnes,F8L 12.6litre V8 air cooled 205cv @2300rpm, and 72m/kg at 1200 rpm,ZF AK6.70 6speed, and weighing with a day cab 5,605kg ready to go!!
Onatra loved them, as did Marcel Coulier in Belgium, (another one of my clients), many Onatra men spoke happily of the service that they had from their Magirus`s of all types…truly an underestimated lorry on the European scene!
But not, oh never, as handsome as those Berliet TLMs!!!
Cheerio for now.
What are those things on the rear axles of the Onatra vehicles- did they have some sort of automatic tyre pressure regulator?
You are right, it’s a signal of lack of pressure in the tyre which warns the driver in the cab by a horn.
Now we can see a similar system in Brazilian trucks.
A Berliet TLM 10 M2 from 1961 with ‘Magic’ injection and still 2 gears stick surnamed in French : “tricoteuse”.
Onatra was well involved in haulage of chemical products.
neversweat1:
ramone:
The basic design of the Berliet cab should come in for some praise ,it was a very comfortable and spacious place to work .The company i worked for bought 2 new Renaults a 340 and 365 in `89 and i thought they were probably the best cab in the business at the time .They were quiet with great visibilty and acres of room the only problem, being what was underneath.The biggest compliment i could give them is the Premium was a backward stepI liked the R Range - including its driveline. Once the gearbox delta 2 shaft issue was resolved we didn’t have a lot of trouble with them. Then again I got on alright with the gear change and gearbox on both the R310’s I drove - one was 1985 reg (C) and the other was 1987 reg (E).
Regards
Steve
I meant the terrible noise the gearboxes made on tickover they rattled and banged alot
neversweat1:
FAR Tractor2
1
0
Steve
Evening all, Steve, interesting photographs of FAR tractor, and the inside shot of the works at Rue de la Tour, Gennevilliers Paris. I went to the site around 74ish, when it had been out of productive use for two years or so. There was still an amazing amount of equipment still in situ, and little vandalism. That factory roof was very low indeed, but it was hardly credible that the site had produced over 16000 unique FAR units from around 5 to 15tonnes payload. The French railways, SNCF operating over 4000! The FAR/Scammell automatic coupling was fitted to all types of chassis from domestic French manufacturers, Citroen, Berliet, Renault, Saviem, Unic,Hotchkiss etc, as well as Spains Barreiros, Ebro, and imported Austin Ford and Bedford models.
Perhaps I could provide a few background details about FAR, before I go for my tea!
The motor car, and light commercial vehicle manufacturer Chenard et Walker had its routes back in the 1900s. During the first World War they had manufactured Hispano Suiza aircraft engines, and in the 1920s had many motor racing successes. They also manufactured a load transfering coupling for commercial vehicles, that we saw in the UK as the Beardsmore. The origin of this device was to provide a relatively easy method of coupling trailers to carry C et W racing, or production cars.
The design was created by three “works” drivers, Fritz Glazman, Andre Lagarde, Raimond Glazman, and the initials of their Christian names became the operating name of the commercial division, FAR. By 1936 the car side of Chenard Walcker was in poor health, and was absorbed by Chausson, (who in 1955 were to become part of Saviem). But FAR continued, and in 1937 secured a licence from Scammell to produce its automatic coupling, and Mechanical Horse, tractor and trailer.
These were manufactured up to 1972, so far outlasting Scammells own product. FAR improved on the basic concept, versions were produced with a payload capacity up to 15tonnes. Early Ponys bore a strong visual resemblance to the UK Mechanical Horse offering, although subsequent French designs ranged from “the shovel”, to the angular “V” front, (often seen bounding around the Boulevards of Paris in the service of parcels and smalls operator Calberson, or the blue livery of Chocolate Suchard from Rue Mercour in the 11em district). The FAR in Richards photograph dates from around 1970 when the Saviem SG cab was being used, but the last model, the CM8, again with the Saviem cab had a much larger radiator grille, and was actually quite handsome! FAR also produced a large number of rigid three wheeled trucks, and unlike Scammell, fitted three wheeled braking to their examples.
The concept of the Scammell automatic coupling was further developed bySoc Sermaindustrie, with their SA66 coupling. A hibrid between a reduced size 5th wheel, and the lock bar auto design. Designed for operation from 3.5 up to 44tonnes. Serma also manufactured automatic air hydraulic support legs, and a conversion kit to uprate FAR/Scammell couplings to take greater payload.
Interesting world, that of lorry manufacture in France, and one of the most handsome lorries to carry the FAR automatic coupling being the Berliet TAK with the handsome cabover Relax cab, and a 4cylinder 120hp diesel…made all those FAR equipped petrol engined Citroens look very effette indeed!!
Cheerio for now.
From the other end of the weight range, I have just found this:
pesanti.it/rivista/rivista8gb.pdf
Amongst other interesting stuff, it contains a potted history of the TBO 15. Is it correct, M. Saviem?
Another question- was the turbo 15 litre available in the TLM or the Relaxe-cabbed forward control tractors, in the 1960s?
Drove the David Abbott Berliet from new with only two major problems in five years UK east and west Europe.
clutch went getting off the ferry at Pool and battery blew up in Greece. Still got it home though. Jim
[zb]
anorak:
From the other end of the weight range, I have just found this:
pesanti.it/rivista/rivista8gb.pdf
Amongst other interesting stuff, it contains a potted history of the TBO 15. Is it correct, M. Saviem?Another question- was the turbo 15 litre available in the TLM or the Relaxe-cabbed forward control tractors, in the 1960s?
Evening Gentlemen, Anorak, where do you find the time to dig up these interesting leads? As “potted” goes, its pretty good. The production figures are those obtained from the Berliet Institute, and are reliable, but do not tell the whole story, as so many TBOs and GBOs were adapted, and altered in operational life. The main alteration being the fitment of a big ■■■■■■■ to replace the M640 14.78litre.
The M640A in turbo form suffered the same problems of most early Turbos, where oil technology was behind the engineering of the builder. Willeme suffered horrendous problems with their 13,74 litre 518T6C @255hp, which led to the adoption of AEC engines as the prime power source. But the standard, naturally aspirated Berliet engine was a good unit, and big power at 240hp, in its day.
The production figures should be considered in detail, and contrasted against the UKs premier heavy hitter builder, Scammell. Berliet were “banging out”, 35/38tonne 6x4 tractors, that could be used for the equivelent of our special types work, up to, and often including 150tonnes plus…in volume! And a point worth noting, most were absorbed by the “domestic market”, so great was the demand for such vehicles!
To answer your second question, due to the complexity of the Berliet ordering system, and the potential options available to a customer, yes, the Turbo 640, could have been built into a TLM, or a Relax cab tractor, but I very much doubt that it ever was. Certainly I have no personal recollection of such a beast. The TLM10, with Eberspacher turbo would have been a more viable machine for normal useage. TBOs, and GBOs were big old girls, similar size to a Scammell Contractor, (the photo on the Italian web site showing StagsTBO, sometimes running at 150tonnes plus, yet pushing at the rear, is their Willeme TG100, rated at 300tonnes , but looking a smaller unit)!!!
The TLMs were a similar size physically, to the B61 Mack, (a vehicle to which they were often compared). Soc Tpts Sandron, from Yvelines ran both makes coupled to very substantial steel twin ram tipping trailers right up to the late 70s, but the Berliet had the advantage of a sleeper cab over the Mack!!
The physical size of the TBO/GBO is imposing to say the least. Yet the Willeme TGs , 6x4, 8x4, 8x8, had greater traction, manoeuverability, and physical size, but the Berliets had a “presence” that none could rival. Phillipe Brame from Colmar, Hors Code TBO 15M3, relax cab, with bonnet, ■■■■■■■ 335 power, is now in preservation, and attends many French shows, still in Phillipes white and red livery. If you ever get the chance to see her in the “flesh” please do so, for these gentle giants, (for to drive they are so smooth and alltogether), truly are a masterpiece of the lorry builders art!!
I shall away to my (late) tea, and over a glass of Bollinger reflect on these masterpieces…but in France, there is a restored 1974 Willeme TG100, 6X4,with a Detroit two stroke for sale…now there is real temptation…
Cheerio for now!
Thanks for that, Monsieur Saviem- another addition to my ever-expanding knowledge of old lorries. I found the document simply by Googling Berliet TBO 15. Google does not find much of the stuff, though. You stumble across it when reading something else. For example, if you try to find pictures of Vabis LV75s, Google will give you a page of them. It does not show the one that Tiptop495 posted on here, though. However, it does show plenty which have been posted on here so, a bit of curiosity later…
I think I may have to amend my specification for “ultimate 1960s tractor unit”, if that 300bhp 15litre was available under a Relaxe cab! Was the engine a bit of a dud? If TBOs were typically re-engined with NTC335s, I might have some reservations!
Plenty of lovely TBOs here:
google.co.uk/search?q=berlie … 61&bih=686
A TBO with Relaxe cab from 1967. The company ran some TBO with re-engined with GM-Detroit engines.
