Bit of a silly question but I have obtained my license AFTER 1997, am I allowed to drive B+E on a C or C1 license? I’ve searched tinterwebs but can’t find anything.
Fairly sure it’s no as E is a trailer over 750 kgs and C still only allows one up to 750 kgs.
mrpj:
Fairly sure it’s no as E is a trailer over 750 kgs and C still only allows one up to 750 kgs.
THIS ^
The way to tell is to look on your new licence and see what full categories you have and what provisional categories you have.
You should have B and C as a full
and BE and CE as a provisional
So can you drive a car and trailer with the trailer weighing no more than 750kg without the +E category as you mention the ‘+E’ covers for over 750Kg?
EDIT: Dean I have BE on my provisional entitlements. So I guess now when CE is passed I can drive BE without taking a test for it?
Link:
direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Dr … DG_4022547
As you can see there’s scope for a trailer over 750 kgs on a B licence but it’s not exactly the same as a full BE.
Sam Millar:
So can you drive a car and trailer with the trailer weighing no more than 750kg without the +E category as you mention the ‘+E’ covers for over 750Kg?
Unaccompanied if it’s under 750kg. Over 750Kg and you need someone who has had BE for 3 years to sit beside you.
EDIT: Dean I have BE on my provisional entitlements. So I guess now when CE is passed I can drive BE without taking a test for it?
Passing CE will automatically upgrade BE to a full category
Ok I’m with you now fellas, cheers.
SAM,
the man to give an absolutely definitive answer is ROG.
Lets hope he comes along soon, but until then . . .
Your C only pass will not upgrade your towing capability over 750kg.
But when you pass your C+E, then your car (B) licence will automatically upgrade to B+E.
You can then tow pretty much what your towing vehicle can handle by yourself then.
Wont be long now will it?
But you will still need to wait 3 years before you supervise a towing learner B+E or C+E.
However, even if you had not got cat C, there are certain circumstances under which you can legally tow, completely by yourself a trailer weighing more than 750 kgs. using a car.
Basically, if the trailer does NOT have a MAM of More than the car kerbweight AND the total MAM of the car PLUS the MAM of the trailer doesnt add up to more than 3.5 tonnes, then YOU can tow it today.
I am sure that ROG can explain the exact ins and outs of towing with cars law, but I am certain that what I have said is true enough for your purposes.
Cheers,
LandyLad
Sam,
Having done my B+E and going through all the rules and regs at the time. What LandyLad has said is completely correct.
As a rule of thumb, you cannot tow a trailer over 750kg unless you complete either you B+E (Car and trailer) or C+E (LGV and trailer, which you get grandfather rights for B+E)
Rob
LandyLad:
SAM,
the man to give an absolutely definitive answer is ROG.
Others have correctly stated that passing C1 or C does not give a +E entitlement
Passing CE will upgrade B to B+E … BUT … if the medical is not current you not only lose all LGV categories but also lose the right to B+E !!
This is likely to become a major issue for those in the future who give up LGV driving perhaps when they retire
Pre 97 car pass licence holders still retain the B+E without medicals
Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained
I have extensive knowledge on this issue and already have a trailer towing clinic HERE
Trailers over 3500 kgs plated MAM weight come under different rules which is why all the trailers towed by B class vehicles , those of 3.5 tonnes and under, are not plated at more than 3500 kgs or 3.5 tonnes MAM
Trailers without plates use the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS to determine the MAM.
A rating of 66 on 4 tyres would give a MAM of 1200 kgs.
Vehicles in the B licence category will have the following information on a plate in the vehicle, in the handbook or on the V5 form.
Information can also be found on many internet vehicle specification sites.
Unladen or Kerb weight - although there is a slight difference in the two it is not that much
GVW - the max weight the vehicle can weigh when fully loaded
GTW - the max weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
Towing capacity - this is the ACTUAL weight that can be towed by the vehicle - it does not mean the trailer MAM weight.
None of the above weights must be exceeded
Some vehicles have a GVW, a towing capacity and a GTW. In such a case the GTW takes priority over the GVW and towing capacity when added together
FOR B+E LICENCES
Where a towing capacity is listed then this would be a legal example:-
CAR has GVW of 2000 and a towing capacity of 1800
TRAILER has a MAM of 3500 and an unladen weight of 1000
The trailer can be loaded with a maximum weight of 800
Where there is not a towing capacity listed then the GTW is used
GTW minus the GVW does not give the towing capacity unless the vehicle is fully laden
EXAMPLE: -
VAN has GVW of 3500 and GTW of 6000
TRAILER has MAM of 3500
The van and trailer can weigh 3000 each and be legal
FOR B LICENCES
The Gov sites are not that good at explaining this so I have managed to find a simple way of determining whether a driver can tow something on a B only licence -
To tow over 750 kgs with a B licence you need to say NO to the following:-
Is the plated MAM of the trailer more than the UNLADEN/KERB/EMPTY weight of the towing vehicle?
Does the GVW of the towing vehicle plus the plated MAM of the trailer add up to more than 3500 kgs?
Is the ACTUAL weight of the empty trailer and its load more than the listed towing capacity?
Example of legally towing over 750 kgs with a B licence - made up figures but not that far from what can be found…
Towing vehicle -
Unladen/empty/kerb = 1500
GVW = 2000
Towing capacity = 1800
Trailer -
Unladen/empty = 800
MAM = 1500 (Perhaps originally a 2000 MAM but downplated by manufacturer so it conforms to B licence towing)
Load trailer with 700 max
Reasons it is legal for towing on a B licence -
The 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than the 1500 unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
The 2000 GVW of the towing vehicle plus the 1500 MAM of the trailer is not more than 3500
The towing capacity/actual weight being towed does not exceed 1800
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing rule
I hope this helps those who are unsure of the rules
There is a lot of nonsense on this thread.
B, B+E and C categories have no relation to each other whatsoever. Gaining either of them gives you no entitlement to any of the others.
As a standard category ‘B’ driver who does NOT specifically hold the B+E category, you CAN tow a trailer, and it CAN be over 750kg. The rules simply state that the trailer must have a mass no greater than the unladen mass of the vehicle that is towing it, and the whole thing must not have a mass of greater than 3500kg.
So there is nothing stopping you as a post-97 car driver, hooking an 18-foot tri-axle trailer to a long wheel base van and driving it perfectly legally, provided you keep any eye on how you load the whole thing and get the mass ratios in the proper balance.
After you pass your C+E you will also get an automatic upgrade if you later pass your bus/coach test from Cat D to D+E. 
Gogan:
There is a lot of nonsense on this thread.B, B+E and C categories have no relation to each other whatsoever. Gaining either of them gives you no entitlement to any of the others.
As a standard category ‘B’ driver who does NOT specifically hold the B+E category, you CAN tow a trailer, and it CAN be over 750kg. The rules simply state that the trailer must have a mass no greater than the unladen mass of the vehicle that is towing it, and the whole thing must not have a mass of greater than 3500kg.
So there is nothing stopping you as a post-97 car driver, hooking an 18-foot tri-axle trailer to a long wheel base van and driving it perfectly legally, provided you keep any eye on how you load the whole thing and get the mass ratios in the proper balance.
Long wheel base van and 18ft tri axel trailer 
Not planning on carry much load then to get to 3500kg
Gogan:
There is a lot of nonsense on this thread.B, B+E and C categories have no relation to each other whatsoever. Gaining either of them gives you no entitlement to any of the others.
As a standard category ‘B’ driver who does NOT specifically hold the B+E category, you CAN tow a trailer, and it CAN be over 750kg. The rules simply state that the trailer must have a mass no greater than the unladen mass of the vehicle that is towing it, and the whole thing must not have a mass of greater than 3500kg.
So there is nothing stopping you as a post-97 car driver, hooking an 18-foot tri-axle trailer to a long wheel base van and driving it perfectly legally, provided you keep any eye on how you load the whole thing and get the mass ratios in the proper balance.
Errr - thats wot I said about 3 posts ago ! 
Gogan:
There is a lot of nonsense on this thread.B, B+E and C categories have no relation to each other whatsoever. Gaining either of them gives you no entitlement to any of the others.
As a standard category ‘B’ driver who does NOT specifically hold the B+E category, you CAN tow a trailer, and it CAN be over 750kg. The rules simply state that the trailer must have a mass no greater than the unladen mass of the vehicle that is towing it, and the whole thing must not have a mass of greater than 3500kg.
So there is nothing stopping you as a post-97 car driver, hooking an 18-foot tri-axle trailer to a long wheel base van and driving it perfectly legally, provided you keep any eye on how you load the whole thing and get the mass ratios in the proper balance.
if u want to go heavy haul u can even drive a 3500ton transit and tow a 750 trailor with a train weight up to 4250 all perfectly legal on a cat b only licence
Noworries:
Long wheel base van and 18ft tri axel trailer
I thought that too. If it’s a van (3.5t) then the trailer must be 750 kgs or less
Noworries:
Long wheel base van and 18ft tri axel trailer Not planning on carry much load then to get to 3500kg
No, but what about if you run a stall at a car-boot selling stuffed teddy bears? Lots of volume, not much mass! Also, nothing stopping you towing a large twin or triple axle touring caravan behind a large saloon car or small 4x4 is there?
It might not be very practical at the extremes of the allowances, but it IS legal!
LandyLad:
Errr - thats wot I said about 3 posts ago !
I did notice, but then there was more confusion posted by others afterwards. Wasn’t getting at you specifically.
eddster1979:
if u want to go heavy haul u can even drive a 3500ton transit and tow a 750 trailor with a train weight up to 4250 all perfectly legal on a cat b only licence
Indeed, but I didn’t want to confuse the issue any more than it already has been. Technically there is also a dispensation that allows you to tow any weight you like for the puproses of recovering a vehicle to safety, so you could in theory put a fully loaded 6.5t Iveco van on a towing dolly behind a Suzuki Swift and be perfectly legal, not that you would want to! 
mrpj:
I thought that too. If it’s a van (3.5t) then the trailer must be 750 kgs or less
No, it doesn’t! Provided the trailer has a mass of less than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it, then you can tow whatever you like provided the total actual mass (i.e not plated, unladen, permittable or otherwise) is less than 3500kg!
Gogan:
No, it doesn’t! Provided the trailer has a mass of less than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it, then you can tow whatever you like provided the total actual mass (i.e not plated, unladen, permittable or otherwise) is less than 3500kg!
As said above the combined weight can’t exceed 4250 kgs if being driven on a B licence.
For B licence towing - any B category vehicle with a GVW/MAM of 2750 kgs or more cannot tow a trailer greater then 750 kgs MAM
Hows that for simplicity
mrpj:
Gogan:
No, it doesn’t! Provided the trailer has a mass of less than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it, then you can tow whatever you like provided the total actual mass (i.e not plated, unladen, permittable or otherwise) is less than 3500kg!As said above the combined weight can’t exceed 4250 kgs if being driven on a B licence.
Only true if the trailer has a mass of 750kg or less, if the trailer has a mass of over 750kg then the total mass (or train-weight) cannot be more than 3500kg.