Started 2 weeks ago in a new job as a new driver, and I drove a 2017 one the first week, took about 3 seconds from pressing the throttle to actually moving, it made roundabouts a bit challenging and had to engage my Mystic Meg skills and predict what drivers were going to do at roundabouts. Also, gives horrific control when trying to reverse into tight spaces and up kerbs.
Cut to last week and I’ve been in a 2017 Volvo FL 4 over 4, she’s a beauty, I learned and passed in a manual, so it was still very fresh in my mind. I definitely prefer a manual.
What has been your experiences with Automatic vs Manual?
Interesting you say that about the MAN autos. I had my first taster when I went to WTTL training centre last week to have a go in a rigid (before deciding whether to do my C licence with them). I found exactly the same - there is loads of dead travel in the top part of the throttle pedal and the truck doesn’t quite ‘creep’ enough on zero throttle so you have to prod it until it kind of lurches, which looks/ feels really clumsy. Seems worse in reverse to me, but then my experience is very limited. They did say the later MAN trucks have an updated gearbox which is far better though.
Only thing is I’m concerned at most of the instructors I spoke to having auto trucks for training; given I may end up with agency work to start with and could get a manual truck, I’d be all at sea, hence thinking of finding someone with a manual truck to train on…
I drive a daf 4 over 4 and i like it.the other driver has daf auto. I refuse to drive it .put it in reverse and wait…and wait .then (zb) it launches itself .it also has steering rear axle . Combine the 2 with a bit of tight spot manouvering in a housing estate and im likely to destroy something. Previously drove r series scania with auto box and thought it was great.
At end of the day it’s just a type of gear change - that’s it!
Like any vehicle once you’ve driven for a while you get used to it!
I drive MANs and yes to begin with bit of a pain getting used to them, after few days becomes normal
As mentioned above , I’m same I’d prefer a manual over an auto but not my choice what a company buys so just get whatever I get
I wouldn’t be worried or shy away from a certain type of vehicle, just take time getting used to it and you’ve got experience of one more type under your belt.
scadden:
Holy jeebus, MAN automatics are horrific,
…
What has been your experiences with Automatic vs Manual?
tbh I think that particular truck needs maintenance. I’ve driven several MANs and they’ve been fine. I just found it a little muddling at first that the switchbox rotates opposite direction to DAF… but I do like the snail and tortoise options.
A good nick manual is great but seldom is that the case particularly if the firm you work for has ‘heavy handed’ drivers. I’ve driven some that are like stirring porridge and almost dangerous to drive but firms don’t do the maintenance they should.
I prefer auto or more correctly “autoshift” because that is what it is (change box on top of the manual gearbox). I think it was only Volvo that produced a true auto with torque convertor - beautifully smooth but probably cost more so not many of those about. If you want to experience the joy of a true auto… look for a chance to take a drive a dustcart or gritter (Allinson auto box which I think is American also in buses).
I’ve not driven manual trucks but have plenty of experience of manual coaches which I am yet to tame. Gearboxes range from precise to stirring porridge and every coach is different.
My primary problem isn’t clutch control, rather gear selection. I tend to panic when I don’t get the right gear and I find I’m slower in a manual compared to an auto where I’m much more confident and can make decent progress.
One employer showed me how to double declutch which does help me find the right gear but I don’t get the right ones all the time.
Problem where I presently live is that coach operators live firmly in the stone age using 20-30 year old coaches for their work, so there are still a lot of manual gearboxes around which they just expect drivers to drive and if you can’t your options become limited.
Wheel Nut:
Apart from the Twin Splitter and I shift the finest modern gearbox was the MAN Comfort Shift.
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Comfort Shift was great, but it’s not the MAN auto, I’ve never liked them, even though I think they used the same auto box (ZF) as DAF and Iveco, the ones I drove seemed to have more lag than in the other makes. I beleive they’ve all gone over to the ZF traxon (or something like that) it’s supposed to be much better.
Truckface:
Only thing is I’m concerned at most of the instructors I spoke to having auto trucks for training; given I may end up with agency work to start with and could get a manual truck, I’d be all at sea, hence thinking of finding someone with a manual truck to train on…
Can you drive a manual car?
If so why so worried about a truck manual gearbox?
The principle is the same, its very unlikely you’ll get anything like the fabled Eaton Twin Splitter or anything similar, so it’ll be a synchromesh box, it might have some switches for range change and splitter, but basically the same, you just need to understand what the splitter and range do. I think modern manual also won’t let you “accidentally” switch from high to low range at speed as putting it in low range at 56 mph can get messy.
It’s also unlikely that if you learned to drive on one manual truck the next manual you get thrown into will have the same manual box.
I remember almost all boxes being different, slap across range change on the old Renault box, switches for range change on others, collar splitter switches, or a switches and in the case of Scania and Volvo, both 12 speed boxes, 3 gears with a split on each gear and range change, but the 3 speed on a Volvo you push it one way for low range 3rd and high range 6th the Scania went the other way, no end of fun swapping when you were used to one make, but a couple of missed gears and you got the idea.
I’m finding it strange, as I can drive a manual car, but bigger vehicles defeat me - I find incorrect gear selection an issue in an old coach whereas I don’t get the same problem driving a Ford Focus/Mondeo - some manual cars are simpler to drive, some like my first car were slightly more challenging, adding in an expiring clutch. My own car isn’t a manual (55reg Mazda 2 based on a Fiesta).
Some of the old junk I’ve driven has gears in different positions to what the stick says, whereas I’ve driven a more modern (06) Volvo B12M with a manual box and that I got on with better. Coach operators keep their vehicles a long time and I’ve come across 20/30 year old (Volvo’s again) coaches in my last job which need to be put out of the misery, but they continue to be used on school contracts as the operators are too mean to spend money. Given the truck origins of most coaches one guesses that a manual truck would be quite similar.
muckles:
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Can you drive a manual car?
If so why so worried about a truck manual gearbox?
The principle is the same, its very unlikely you’ll get anything like the fabled Eaton Twin Splitter or anything similar
speedlink83:
I’m finding it strange, as I can drive a manual car, but bigger vehicles defeat me - I find incorrect gear selection an issue in an old coach whereas I don’t get the same problem driving a Ford Focus/Mondeo - some manual cars are simpler to drive, some like my first car were slightly more challenging, adding in an expiring clutch. My own car isn’t a manual (55reg Mazda 2 based on a Fiesta).
Some of the old junk I’ve driven has gears in different positions to what the stick says, whereas I’ve driven a more modern (06) Volvo B12M with a manual box and that I got on with better. Coach operators keep their vehicles a long time and I’ve come across 20/30 year old (Volvo’s again) coaches in my last job which need to be put out of the misery, but they continue to be used on school contracts as the operators are too mean to spend money. Given the truck origins of most coaches one guesses that a manual truck would be quite similar.
muckles:
.
Can you drive a manual car?
If so why so worried about a truck manual gearbox?
The principle is the same, its very unlikely you’ll get anything like the fabled Eaton Twin Splitter or anything similar
When I’ve driven old knackered trucks with worn out gearboxes, and even newer ones, in fact even with autoboxes, I’ve found it better to slow things down, take time on the gear change, also lets the auto mechanism have time to change, this is probably why you found double de-clutching helped, also helps drop into a worn gear, it’s actually not a bad thing to do in general as it means you plan your drive.
I’ve found the 2 or 3 finger (Oh Ah Madam ) works quite well, instead of trying to smash it into gear just use a couple of fingers on the lever and let it drop into gear when its ready.
I guess its horses for courses I initially wanted to learn in a manual having had a practise drive in a 4/4 daf (cant remember exactly it was a while ago) I remember the instructor saying that to begin with he would tell me when to change and slowly leave it down to me more and more depending on how I progressed. by the time we were out of the estate I was asking him if I could change gear and with in a few minutes was doing it automatically.
However I have opted to do it in an auto as that is all the company I have chosen to go with has. The fact that they are considerably cheaper than my local schools and have a good reputation from what I can see and just the general feel of the place and people I felt outweighed the need to learn in a manual.
MAN’s with arsetronic require a gentle touch on the throttle, don’t use the autohold function instead use the secondary brake (ie the initial movement of the park brake) so you are in control and not the soddin 'puter.
Don’t be too heavy on the throttle, you have to get it to about half way down before it will provide some oomph but then a gentle feathering to ‘feel’ the clutch engage and then increase pressure from there helps, they do take a bit of getting used to.
Maneuvering always use turtle mode.
Arsetronics (MAN, DAF, Iveco) are not the best programmed at moving junctions, about the same as Scanias box, but all are better than Merc’s box, you will make much better progress if you slip it into M and change gears yourself, but if you let the gearbox know what you want before you need it in auto, by giving it a little throttle a second or so before wanting to move it will respond better.
If the clutch is juddering in reverse its probably done around 500k and the thrust bearing is about to drop its pants.
Clutch/throttle is better in Traxon fitted to later MAN’s.
What no one can deny about arsetronic is that it’s a very reliable box, from what i see in my work and places i go the most reliable by far of all the automated boxes, seldom do they go wrong.
These boxes are here to stay, with so many drivers not taking care of the vehicle they have proved beyond all doubt they save fuel and save clutches and gearboxes and engines from abuse, a good driver will still beat the autos in both fuel and progress, but so few take the slightest care of their vehicles any more that manual boxes are now only specified at driver’s request in places where drivers are valued and get sole use of the vehicle, some makes no longer supply manual gearboxes at all on normal spec vehicles.
