After dipping our toes into the world of delivery driving (7.5t) 2 man crews at what point do you become employed , we had to work as self employed under these conditions.
Supplied with uniform, coat, high viz, shirts, trousers,
supplied with a truck , and a tank full of diesel
other factors of the working conditions below:
A Taster of working for expert logistics,( 2 man crew)
1-Any damage to the van drivers share the cost of damages up to 3 grand
2- Any damage to other vehicles drivers cover the full cost of any damages
3-Any damage to the load the drivers pay the full cost,
4- Any damage to a customers house while taking an item in the driver pays the full cost
5-Any leaks from installed washing machines the drivers pay the full cost to cover flood damage
6-Instant £100 fine if their private snooper photographs the back of the van left open whilst in a customers house. must be padlocked .
7-Instant £100 if sat nav is left on display whilst in a customers house and the private snoopers is on your,e tail
8- fail to report to work £50 per man fine
9- Fall behind with your,e load and assistance is sent to bail you out £50 per man costs
Their is more of the above as well .
After dealing with that above be prepared for 16-17 hour days paying £120 .
Training from people who have 3 weeks experience themselves
unable to find address and dealing with lots a snotty customers
knocking on doors at 9pm to say hi we are here to fit this washing machine,
Here is one example , a driver employed by one of these mini bosses went out, fitted a washer , it leaked when customer was on holiday and he is fighting a court case against the customer on his own for damages of 10 grand. be very very aware if ever offered a job for these lot.
Based on points 1-9 above I would have said no at interview stage. If you agreed to any of that then you want your head looking at.
Surprised they didn’t expect you to pay for the diesel and running costs of the motor. Oh, and there is the warehouse man to pay too.
Truckbling:
Based on points 1-9 above I would have said no at interview stage. If you agreed to any of that then you want your head looking at.
Surprised they didn’t expect you to pay for the diesel and running costs of the motor. Oh, and there is the warehouse man to pay too.
see my other post …viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112220#p1710945 … I don’t work their , I walked when all the above became clear, But I was wondering apart from having the drivers over on everything else at what point are you classed as being employed and not self employed as that was our only option…
Well if you are pay as you earn then you are employed. If you have to take care of your own tax and national insurance then you are self employed but you must register with hmrc for this. It should have been made clear at interview stage but as an employee they would have to state all the above in your contract and you would have to agree to it before they could charge you.
If on the other hand they class you as being self employed then they can throw everything at you and here is the key point " if you allow them to". The secret is not to agree to any of it in the first place.
Truckbling:
Well if you are pay as you earn then you are employed. If you have to take care of your own tax and national insurance then you are self employed but you must register with hmrc for this. It should have been made clear at interview stage but as an employee they would have to state all the above in your contract and you would have to agree to it before they could charge you.
If on the other hand they class you as being self employed then they can throw everything at you and here is the key point " if you allow them to". The secret is not to agree to any of it in the first place.
yes they classed us as self employed and expected us to carry the can for the lot, whilst skimming our wage as well. I just thought I would ask as their must be a certain point where they can no longer get away with classing you as self employed when the only thing they don’t provide you with is a pair of work boots.
Simple don’t work for them. Damage to customers property for washing machine you need public liability and the so called driver negligence insurance why would you be paying for damage to other veihcles as its on there insurance. There is but that is why so many only last 3 weeks looks like they management there need a kick up the backside. With regards to working conditions. And drivers hrs regs if your doing 16-17 hrs aday . I do similar job though not white glove service like the expert job as an owner driver
alix776:
Simple don’t work for them. Damage to customers property for washing machine you need public liability and the so called driver negligence insurance why would you be paying for damage to other veihcles as its on there insurance. There is but that is why so many only last 3 weeks looks like they management there need a kick up the backside. With regards to working conditions. And drivers hrs regs if your doing 16-17 hrs aday . I do similar job though not white glove service like the expert job as an owner driver
We confronted them about public liability insurance and they said we could not cover our selves, the reason given was this, A Claim goes in against them, they send their man out, he says ok pass the book to the driver , the driver then says ill send my insurance man out who may challenge the claim or the amount, this then brings expert back into the fray to fight against the drivers insurance and also deal with the customer, they basically said its a none starter because too many cooks would be in the kitchen…As for vehicle insurance ,If you damage their van you can pay an excess up to £3000. I believe if you damaged a member of the public’s car and you were to blame their insurance only covers so much so the driver is left with the bill as far as I was aware on that score
Absolute rubbish is what they are telling you. They cannot pass on claims to you ik this way its what’s termed an unfair contract.
alix776:
Absolute rubbish is what they are telling you. They cannot pass on claims to you ik this way its what’s termed an unfair contract.
If you’re self employed/subcontracting you take the hit for damages etc just like if you had a plumber in and he caused a leak causing thousands worth of damage, you would expect the plumber to pay for it to be put right.
The same applies to expert logistics who will not cover any damage because you’re a subcontractor NOT AN EMPLOYEE.
As a subcontractor regardless of what a customer (‘expert’ logistics) wants, you need public liability insurance If they won’t allow you to have it because of customer relations you should decline to work for them.
At no point you become an employee with ‘expert’ logistics as they don’t want any financial risk when it comes to drivers.
I’m sorry it’s your first taste of driving, believe me not all companies are like ‘expert’ logistics.
That is true yes but must be explained when they start which it is not by the sounds of it so unless they take the contract home and actually read it which many won’t.
Btw im an OD doing home deliveries for a different company using my own vehicle
What is interesting is the IR35 position as they are not allowing the driver to get the insurance they require
They don’t explain anything to you, it’s just sign this and get to work.
Unfortunately most people don’t read/understand it so they just sign it unaware of their liabilities, they only find out if something goes wrong or word of mouth.
their stance on public liability insurance is that they want issues resolved quickly without a third party insurer dragging their heels, keeping the customers happy and avoid ‘expert’ logistics getting a bad name at the expense of the drivers.
I don’t know where they stand in terms of IR35 legislation but no doubt it will be in the grey area.
Most likley but the liabilities should be made clear at the start. If not then it a get out clause for the driver
Indeed they should, but they wouldn’t get many drivers if they did!