Looking back to the early "70s we saw big strides forward in lorry designs prompted by the European invasion. But moving on were the replacements better than their predecessors. The Seddon Atkis were better for the driver than the Atkis or Seddons (Dennis may disagree) The B series ERFs were an improvement over the A Series and so on . Moving further on i always thought Renault made a backward step with the Premium compared with the older Turboliner and i also thought the 112/113s had a better driving position to the newer 114/124s. Where did all the power go , i never thought the 2800s were spectacular but the 95 310s were dead . Same with the Mercedes 1729s . Any thoughts?
“Better”? For who?
Some newer trucks may give better mpg or lower emissions but may not be such an enjoyable driving experience.
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Always was so too:
Power steering? Drivers will just knock out the tyres earlier!
Franglais:
“Better”? For who?
Some newer trucks may give better mpg or lower emissions but may not be such an enjoyable driving experience.
.
Always was so too:
Power steering? Drivers will just knock out the tyres earlier!
+1
“Better for who?” is the right question. A driver might well claim that a classic example is the sleeper-cab B-series which replaced the NGC with the 7MW cab. The accountant may have other ideas. The fitters may differ again. But even among drivers, replacement models are viewed variously. Look at the number of drivers for whom the bottom fell out of their lives when given a newer, but automatic unit; against which probably an equal number of drivers thought Christmas had come!
Other drivers will highly rate a new cab which is more comfortable and better appointed for long distances; while the same lorry will be marked down by other drivers for not having their favourite gearbox in it, or their favourite engine-spec. Certainly, as Euro 1-6 kicked in, lorries arguably became less lively out in the mountains and down the valleys.
The best way to get a more accurate picture would be to set out a simple list of criteria, for example: cockpit (think Scania 1 series vs 2 series), bunk area (think Iveco Eurostar vs Stralis), gearbox (think Merc Eco-split vs EPS), engine (think Euro 1-6), MPG, service intervals, engine access (think Crusader vss ERF European), ride-characteristics, etc.
A couple of examples from my own experience come to mind:
Eurostar vs Stralis: the creature comforts of the Stralis far and away outstripped the Eurostar, both had good engines, but the Eaton Twin-splitter in my Eurostar was far, far better than the Eurotronic semi-automated 'box in the Stralis. Ditto Merc Eco-split being better than EPS.
It is tempting to say “well this is comparing apples with pears because you can’t compare driver comfort to preferred gearbox style”. In the real world you have to do just that! You have to weigh up all your sets of preferences and then decide which lorry you want. Would a driver really choose lower-grade comfort for a preferred engine or gearbox? Yes! Especially if he does 8000 kms a week in hilly terrain.
This has the makings of a good thread. Until, that is… 
Rowena
Franglais:
“Better”? For who?
Some newer trucks may give better mpg or lower emissions but may not be such an enjoyable driving experience.
.
Always was so too:
Power steering? Drivers will just knock out the tyres earlier!
Well for a start the Mercs we run are cramped and gutless and at 450 bhp leave a lot to be desired. So yes from a drivers point of view. But they are also unreliable which was never true of the older ones . I’ve never been a Merc fan but their latest offerings are crap. I am currently driving a MAN 440 double drive which as seen better days and a Jenkinsons driver was in our yard with a new Scania , i said don’t be getting jealous of my MAN he came back straight away saying they are not a patch on the old Scanias
I did think that the F12 was better than the F88 in just about every respect 
Even though it was virtually a death trap in a collision, the seat was fixed and the wipers were at the top of the screen; from getting in and out and purely sitting in it while operating the controls for hours on end, I don’t think any subsequent cab has beaten the Ergomatic. As for living in it and putting up with the din then a different story.
Foden S80, (and the later S83 models which were a much bigger improvement over the S80) were better in many ways than the S50 half cabs, although not neccessarily in every way. I thought the later Haulmaster cab was a step backwards myself which when given the choice between the two when I went driving full time was why I chose the Sed Ak 400. Better cab-wise than the Haulmaster, far worse chassis-wise alas. You will always have ‘better or worse’ in every new design though.
Pete.
cav551:
Even though it was virtually a death trap in a collision, the seat was fixed and the wipers were at the top of the screen; from getting in and out and purely sitting in it while operating the controls for hours on end, I don’t think any subsequent cab has beaten the Ergomatic. As for living in it and putting up with the din then a different story.
You don’t say what lorry the “it” is!!
ERF-NGC-European:
cav551:
Even though it was virtually a death trap in a collision, the seat was fixed and the wipers were at the top of the screen; from getting in and out and purely sitting in it while operating the controls for hours on end, I don’t think any subsequent cab has beaten the Ergomatic. As for living in it and putting up with the din then a different story.You don’t say what lorry the “it” is!!
I get it- you’re a writer, not a reader. 
ERF-NGC-European:
cav551:
Even though it was virtually a death trap in a collision, the seat was fixed and the wipers were at the top of the screen; from getting in and out and purely sitting in it while operating the controls for hours on end, I don’t think any subsequent cab has beaten the Ergomatic. As for living in it and putting up with the din then a different story.You don’t say what lorry the “it” is!!
Leyland /AEC
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I assumed that Cav was referring to the Ergomatic cab itself, full stop?
Pete.
Lorries used too be built by engineers, now they are designed by accountants, the old style haulage boss is now his grandson who isn’t really interested in lorries, Grandad bought his lorries off a salesman who had given him good service, a good deal, many good salesmen changed jobs and took their customers with them.
The Grandson will buy trucks from the bloke with the fake Rolex and some spare tickets for a rave in Malia.
I always thought the ERF “E” Series cab was better than the “EC” cab
Obviously the “EC” was improved with the Olympic version
Thanks Gary
I preferred the Foden 4000 series to the CF cab they used on the last ones but Foden wouldn’t have had much say in that i also preferred the F10/F12 to the FH12s but that’s just my opinion
Wheel Nut:
Lorries used too be built by engineers, now they are designed by accountants, the old style haulage boss is now his grandson who isn’t really interested in lorries, Grandad bought his lorries off a salesman who had given him good service, a good deal, many good salesmen changed jobs and took their customers with them.The Grandson will buy trucks from the bloke with the fake Rolex and some spare tickets for a rave in Malia.
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Amen to all of that summary… if I might also add that grandad was probably a time-served mechanic, or if not then a practical man with a set of spanners who knew the ins and outs of the mechanicals of a lorry.
For starters new uns usually have lower top speed n with auto box, they must be awfully boring, and none of them sound good but then I don’t have to drive one for a living
Trying to avoid saying what I really think of the awful gearbox and underdeveloped electronic systems…
My current DAF isn’t notably better than my previous ones.
The rubber may may now be a more environmentally friendly material but the last one was intact at 9 years old the current one split at 3 yrs.
The pockets above the doors are slightly smaller, as are the other lockers. Storage above bunk is good.
The tray/shelf under the dash is elegantly curved but just too small to hold an A4 map or folder! Stupid.
Fabric on the door card instead of washable plastic? No thanks.
After sleeping in cab in winter condensation forms in roof space somewhere. Drops into lights or down inside of screen or on your head. This should have been sorted in testing surely?
Not disastrous but annoying and avoidable.
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Edit para 3
I meant the rubber floor mats used to last much longer before than now.
Franglais:
Trying to avoid saying what I really think of the awful gearbox and underdeveloped electronic systems…
My current DAF isn’t notably better than my previous ones.
The rubber may may now be a more environmentally friendly material but the last one was intact at 9 years old the current one split at 3 yrs.
The pockets above the doors are slightly smaller, as are the other lockers. Storage above bunk is good.
The tray/shelf under the dash is elegantly curved but just too small to hold an A4 map or folder! Stupid.
Fabric on the door card instead of washable plastic? No thanks.
After sleeping in cab in winter condensation forms in roof space somewhere. Drops into lights or down inside of screen or on your head. This should have been sorted in testing surely?
Not disastrous but annoying and avoidable.
.
Edit para 3
I meant the rubber floor mats used to last much longer before than now.
The first part of your post is my biggest bug bear of new vehicles the auto box . The older Dafs were terrible , some loved them i hated them and still do. This seems to be something forced onto the industry with the message you can have a manual at a higher price. If your job includes tight uphill manoeuvres in reverse then good luck . We have Mercs here now and its pot luck if you can get away at a busy roundabout . The Merc cab imho is also a backward ill thought out mess . Im well over 6ft so when im unfortunate enough to have to drive one the seat doesnt go back far enough , it goes high enough for me to be in direct line with the tacho and i have to stoop down to see out 9f the windows. Mercs have always been gutless (the lesser engines before anyone starts) but these are terrible . I would go as far as to say i would prefer an old 1733 i drove in the mid 90s to the new things we have now and that was EPS at least i didnt go home with back ache
I would swop my current Eu6 DAF auto for my previous manual 2006 in an instant.
But that is purely from a driver’s point of view. I can see accountants might have a different viewpoint. And owner drivers again different
ERF-NGC-European:
I did think that the F12 was better than the F88 in just about every respect
Progress is all relative and often wrecked by legislation.
DAF 95 with 18 speed Fuller and MX13 motor no limiter and no smog kit for me.