i beg to differ! i was a spannerman till 15yrs ago and copper brake pipe was/is sold by the roll by the motor factors then as just that [brake pipe] .Now i dont know how good it was long term re-corrosion but i never had any probs with it, small bends are easily formed in the hand i dont think i ever had it kink on me
I always used those rolls of copper brake pipe from the car factors & never had any trouble.
I have an old Sykes Pickavant brake flaring kit & It’s looking a bit worse for wear these days after going through a few garage floodings.
I lent it to a neighbour once so he could replace the rear brake lines on his MKiiii Cortina. I even gave him the fittings & he bought the coil of copper brake pipe.
He never said owt when he brought it back & the net time I used it one of the dies had been distorted, How on earth can you distort the die head when yr crushing copper?
I collared him about it months later & he said he hadn’t noticed but said he was tightened it hard,
The factories use steel because it is cheaper.
Was it Lord Stokes who said ?
“I don’t want a designer of a brand new car, I want an engineer to save 50p on a back light assembly”
Copper of the correct gauge will take brake line pressures. Of course it does, it is often used in high quality work.
It “withstands flexing” better than steel.
Copper brake piping was actually made illegal to sell some time ago, for the reasons I gave, only copper nickel allowed from then.At least most markets and, I think, also here ?.Copper nickel doesn’t seem to kink through bends it seems to just lose shape and go out of round badly like just sort of flat on the curving side.Which might be why the radii look ok v the old but are actually out of spec when all the numerous vertical and lateral and double angle curves are added up across the front of the car to the nearside brake flex connection. So you end up with it either too long or too short to meet.I think I’ve made 3 or 4 attempts all ended up around 1/2 inch too long or short to meet ends.
But not just that also plenty of other stuff no longer available.I don’t agree with the old for old auto jumble scene at least for anything quick and intended to be used as it would have been when it was new or near new.
But with even the autobahns now a parody of varying limits that type of fun is disappearing anyway.While even a run to Northern Italy now is going to cost over a grand in petrol alone.
My guess is mine at least will meet the crusher rather than going back on the road again.Might be able to get a few quid back for parts like throttle bodies and trick brake and suspension parts.Or flog the whole thing for the classic racing scene.
youre making excuses cos you havnt been able to make those pesky brake pipes up! look on Amazon youll see pure copper brake pipe on sale its not illegal to sell or use -its more expensive than the cupro nickel but well worth the extra -do yourself a favour buy a roll ! besides if youv already made a pipe and its 1/2 inch too long just take it off and saw a little off then put a new flare on the end.
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Have you got a roll cage? I recon you could get some supporters in the crowd from here if you were racing it.
Spedeworth Historic Stock Cars. Aldershot Raceway 09/07/23 (youtube.com)
You’d have thought an engineer with credits and a safe driving award could knock one up, it’s not rocket science.
Ironically it’s because I know how the job was done by the factory and the material used that tells me that trying to hand form a piece of copper pipe to a rough copy ain’t the right way to do it.
I reckon given a few more attempts I’d probably eventually get it close enough but it still won’t be a proper factory fit job.
Bearing in mind all the other no longer available parts for the thing which will take a bit more than bodging together in the shed.
As I said it’s the ‘combination’ of lack of new, quality factory spec, parts and fuel consumption and probably legislation which will end the scene.
It’s just going to take one big road traffic accident caused by someone trying to replace old with old critical parts or other unfit for purpose replacements in that regard.Let alone all the eco crap.
Let’s get this right you’re saying that copper pipe is superior to steel or copper nickel.
How do I cut the ends off a one piece length of pipe from offside to nearside with numerous bends and reverse angles along its length, which all match certain locations along that length which all more or less fit and both ends ending in double and reverse angled bends themselves.So I cut one or both ends off then reshape them now I’ve got a totally useless length of pipe which fits one end only but which now fits absolutely nowhere else along its whole length.
im just saying that copper is the easiest of the bunch to fit when its an awkward brake pipe.As regards cutting a pipe in situ i only once did that and i flared it while it was fitted under the car.Had to hold the flaring tool with a stilson wrench in one hand. . Fitting new brake pipes is an experience thing i remember using cupro nickel a long time then the copper brake pipe came in to my local factors ,in the mid 90s . It was a game changer for me,at the time replacing rusted brake pipes was THE thing for cars getting thru the MOT
Put a bit of a slight “S” bend in the pipe. By pulling it a little it will lengthen the pipe, or bend it a little more to shorten it. Just ensure it is not too big, and won’t snag/rub anywhere.
The original steel pipes will likely have been made on a jig. You don;t have one, so you need to adapt to make summat that will fit.
There is no need to make a 100% identical pipe for it to fit and be safe.
the difference between an engineer and a rivet counter
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As I said plastic coated steel pipe made on a jig to the exact bend radii in the exact place.It does have to be right to the mm or it won’t fit.
Good luck with knocking up that one piece front cross pipe in the shed by eye from a straight piece of copper pipe.I consider getting that right to around a half inch error on the near side union not bad.But still don’t trust copper v steel.Thats just a rough schematic drawing it’s more intricate than that in real life.
Classic case of a little bit of knowledge being dangerous. Hundreds of thousands of vehicles, all over the world, use copper brake lines.
It’s not that hard to do, take the existing one off and use it as a pattern.
If it’s beyond your capability, you can get any brake specialist to do it for you.
Failing those soloutions, you’re left with a couple of options; sell it to someone who has more talent than you, or sell it for scrap.
It certainly seems that your imagination is writing cheques, your abilities can’t cash.
Exactly what does that say about the use of 100% copper for brake lines ?.
Yes agreed I’ll either probably flog it off to someone who is happy to make a rough knock off by eye using copper pipe.
Of an important factory jig made hydraulic component made using steel piping.Among other no longer available parts made to factory tolerances on factory tooling using original grade materials.
Or it will go for scrap.Your point being what exactly ?.
If you put copper on it then flog the car as a going concern, I’d wager you will see more money back from it.
I seriously doubt that any automotive parts suppliers would sell or stock 100% copper. The term “copper”, used in this context, is an abridgement for copper alloy.
The article refers to a VSB, a public servant written document. Public servants are much like you, plenty of googling skills, but no practical knowledge.
Another unfinished Carryfast undertaking, like your apprenticeship and driving career .
If the brake lines are rusted, the more vulnerable parts and there are plenty of them on a Jaguar, will be beyond repair.
If you can’t make a brake line, you’ve got no chance with more complex issues.
You will never finish it, salvage two hundred quid and send it to China.
How? when you have a rightangle bend at each end which doesn’t allow fitting the flaring tool because the space is too short.
Measure roughly how long the complete pipe needs to be and make it in two overlong “halves” each with its bends and the terminating right angles and pipe nuts, and with the overlap in a convenient section of straight run. Fit properly both “halves”, mark the point where they meet and measure carefully where to cut with an allowance for a flare on each, and then fit a join adapter. If you get it wrong you only have to junk one length of pipe and not half a roll.
Practise getting the flare allowance correct with a couple of short lengths of pipe first.
Look under most modernish cars and you’ll find one fitted somewhere by the factory. In many cases you’ll find that the join is merely a male and female tube nut butting up to one another.
Invest in a hand held tube straightener to make life a bit easier.
You are going to have to bleed the system once you have fitted everything. Do yourself a favour and fit a bleed nipple to the master cylinder outlet(s) and bleed the cylinder itself first. Nipple locked up and unable to move the pedal other than pushrod clearance is what you want.
Is it this that you are after?