Are classic cars doomed?

Exactly, it can all be done by software these days. Like Myles says in the video it can be so intoxicating. I think an old ■■■■ like me would rack up speeding points playing with that sports mode. :sweat_smile:

Exactly which EV motor would/could blow a Tremech 6 speed with 700-900 lb/ft torque capacity ‘to bits’ ?.

The DDR made no secret of being a puppet regime of the USSR nor Honecker his Communist loyalties as General Secretary of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany.You seems to have selectively missed that bit.
The Third Reich was clearly a centralised dictatorial ideologically, Socialist/Communist model no different to the USSR, albeit slightly more private car use friendly.

Obviously for the same reason it’s a good thing in an ICE vehicle.The same advantage an EV has, of a mechanical transmission over torque converter auto, but with a lot more ratios meaning better acceleration and driver control and satisfaction.
They are building such beasts in the US to replace a big V8 and manual box in the Mustang.At least for anyone that really wants an EV Mustang.

i assume you mean a tremec 6 speed try it in a dodge viper dumping the clutch at full throttle with out launch control with a heavy load that weighs as much as the car see what happens.

but i guess you know better than porsche aston martin and lotus

Where will the starting handle be stored on these vehicles I wonder?

In the sail locker maybe?

Thank you for that synopsis. Re registering an historic vehicle which has been re powered with a modern or even different make IC engine and then requiring it to meet MOT regs for say 2024 creates many problems. A typical likely cause for re powering such a vehicle would be terminal wear or failure of the powertrain with no similar replacement available. eg a Leyland 8.6 diesel typically would have been replaced with a Gardner 5 LW in the past. Today one might choose a Cummins ISBE. and Allison auto. For 2024 reg to name just a few other alterations we would be looking at A catalyst emissions exhaust system, Reverse lights, Main & dip headlights, rear fog lamps, hazard warning lights, seat belts and a host of other alterations some of them structural, completely destroying the appearance of the vehicle.

For my part, I think that putting in a different powertrain of the same era should have no effect on a vehicle’s historic status.

But what of a chassis and body shell of say a 1950’s car heavily modified to accept a 1990’s engine that will escape current braking, lighting, pollution, seat-belt laws and be tax free to boot!
That could be a way to get a daily drive that circumvents laws, but is in no real way preserving any historic vehicle.

Maybe limit the type of powertrain that can be installed?
If a replacement is allowed by a clean efficient electric motor should that old vehicle be penalized compared to a similar vehicle with a smoky old diesel?
But if such a vehicle becomes a daily drive, surely it should have the same safety features as a new vehicle?

There seem to be many contradictory issues involved here.

I do think that people such as you, with your knowledge of historic vehicles are exactly those who should go to the link in @lancpudn 's link and contribute to the Gov inquiry.

1 Like

i am fairly sure that there are strict things you can do already and what is considered a modification. I know someone in the club i am in that has rebuilt a few cars the latest he has converted from twin su’s to injection each time he has put the car back on the road he has had to have a dvla inspection etc.

I’ve been telling friends with “modern classics” over 25 years old or thereabouts who want the 25 year rolling tax-free rule re-instated instead of the 40 year rule to go & have their say on the Gov site. If they get the Classic car status, It’s ring-fenced against any VED rises which will surely rise year on year to meet the Gov’s netzero targets.

Who knows! they might be able to negotiate a token payment of £100/year to keep both sides happy, If they don’t ask they don’t get.

I converted mine from 5.3 to 6.0L with ITB injection and distributorless ignition, 3 speed automatic to 5 speed manual, 2.88 : 1 rear axle to 3.07, Inboard rear brakes to outboard, AP racing brakes front, straight through exhaust all with just a phone call and thanks that’s all ok your V5 will be updated.

I guess you missed the Wheeler Dealers Maserati BiTurbo EV conversion episode.
No clutch was sidestepped and no gearbox harmed.

I’ve run classics for many years, on two, four and now eight wheels. When the 25 year classic tax derogation first came out in about 1995, there were pretty much three vehicles which managed to live to that kind of age and were still viable daily drivers; Land-Rovers, Morris Minors and VW Beetles.

Fast forward thirty years and times have changed. I’ve just sold a 2005 Colt which still passes an MOT with relatively minimal attention and was never what you’d call “cared for”; when i was young, a car that had been round the clock without at least a de-coke was unheard of, now if they don’t last for 150K miles without putting a spanner on them, they’re regarded as unreliable. Many cars these days are scrapped not because of terminal corrosion or engine failure, but because the designed demise of ECU’s and the prohibitive cost of replacing them, coupled with lack of spare parts availability in general because of annual design changes, debars them from being cost effective.
To answer the main question regarding whether classics which have been converted to EV’s should still retain their status; no. And further to that, the get-out clause about modification needs to be tightened or better policed. With VED expected to rise even further under the expected Labour government (because if you think the Tories hate cars, wait till THEY get in!) the last thing the classic movement needs is to be a refuge for tax dodgers.

One other point which relates to the change of government. In 1997, one of Blair’s first changes was to freeze the cut-off for historic exemption at 1972, to the chagrin of many a Triumph motorcycle owner as well as many others. I fully expect Starmer’s rabble to do at least the same, if not to restrict the use of exempt classics to weekends as has happened in other countries.

Totally agree. My MK5 failed on corrosion and was rotten in front of the n/s and o/s rear wheel,and behind the o/s wheel. Inner wing on the n/s. It now has about 20ft of mig wire and fresh metal :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: I am now nearing in putting it through an MOT.
So yes,it is frightening to know what could be out there,that are not in a roadworthy condition. But Classics are cherish and are practically almost concours

I would and did. Driven my MK5 Cortina for 4 years since 2014. So yes,I don’ have any sense :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: but decided to retire it and bought a modern car in 2018,a MK1 Focus for 230 quid

There’s not much point in running a car at great cost designed for long road trips lasting weeks.So if they say weekends only it’ll be the gas axe smelter and crusher for mine at least the same as I’d prefer to give it an honourable end than replace the V12 with an electric motor.
Bearing in mind if any marque needs an honourable hara Kiri, than pandering to this modern day net stupid crusade, it’s Jaguar.
I’m not aware of any such limits in Europe which would at least wipe out the LeMans Classic meeting which converges cars and enthusiast from all over Europe for a week or more long extravaganza among other numerous European classic meetings.

Firstly you can’t just walk into a Ford dealer and order new parts for a Mk5 Cortina.
Short local journeys aren’t ideal for any car and older cars don’t have the corrosion protection of newer types and certainly weren’t designed for a 25 year + life time.
So if by some miracle the exceed that then you don’t want to put them anywhere near salted winter road use.
So it looks like 4 years as a daily year round driver had the predictable result in your case.

that also might be because crank bearing shell and piston rings are obsolete,an a reluctant choice to remove the factory engine

Not so much obsolete as good quality British made parts like Glacier shells and Hepolite pistons and Quinton Hazel ball joints etc have been replaced by Chinese made knock offs, if that.
Also a deliberate policy of run down of factory OE classic support.Such as the laughable Jaguar Classic Parts scheme which has long been just a list stating no longer available including the pre formed steel brake pipes which have put my XJ off the road so far having given up on trying to DIY form the available junk Copper and Copper Nickel ‘replacements’.
It will be the parts ( lack of ) situation that will kill the classic car scene and recent ICE types, probably deliberately so.
It’s obvious that there will be no product support for any recent Jaguars either without any continuing production facilities.
Which really just leaves the question of Mercedes and BMW which have generally been second to none in the product support of their classics…at a price.

I’m not so convinced. Classic vehicles have their own “cottage industries” providing parts; you can pretty much buy anything for a Land-Rover, Morris Minor or VW Beetle as I mentioned above. My old Harley WLC is another example, I could build one from scratch with aftermarket parts should I choose to; and thanks to Gardner engines still being in service around the world in boats, my old Foden S21 should keep running for a while yet.

1 Like