newmercman:
So if the non OEM tank is fitted by the supplying dealer it circumvents the law 
We used to have big tanks made up for 6x2s when I sold Mercs, none of them were for companies that went over the water though, so i don’t know the finer points of those regs 
Hi NMM,
AFAIK, it needs to be an OEM tank that’s specified as an option, but I can’t remember the exact wording.
It’s all to do with this thing about several different laws all needing to be obeyed at the same time.
newmercman:
In my day’s over the water, un petit cafe solved most diesel related problems and Germany was a transit country, so the diesel was T-formed anyway and not a problem
Same here, I’m also from that time.
dieseldave:
Wheel Nut:
dieseldave:
Bking:
Well there are thousands of reefer trailers floating about with belly tanks fitted so whats the difference.
That’s true mate, but ADR says that a fuel tank has to be directly connected to the vehicle’s engine and/or auxiliary equipment, which I’d take to mean the running tank.
Since the belly tank isn’t (usually) connected to the vehicle’s engine, then the fuel in a belly tank has to be for auxiliary equipment such as a 'fridge or donkey engine. It’s clear that the size limit for a belly tank is 500L though.
Google gives some good answers to this question, if you type “belly tank” and “France.”
That’s a fair point Malc. 
If you could get through France without your belly tank being discovered, the Germans are just next-door and they just love non-standard tanks. 
Hi Dave
Just to throw a spanner in the works the German Trailer manufacturer Krone has designed a system to carry Gas in tanks
built onto the trailer to increase the range of Gas powered trucks. This is obviously no different to having belly tanks, as the purpose would have the end result ie:- more distance on cheaper fuel. 
Rob K:
durknp:
As the title says. Are belly tanks on a trailer allowed both here in the uk and abroad? Was thinking of fitting something between the chassis rails which could be used to fill the running tank.
Here’s a better idea : charge your customers more! Then you wouldn’t need to bring a refinery back with you in order to make the job pay. 
Yes and Hansel and Gretel would have had a Sat-Nav 
Well from reading all this I think I can safely say it won’t be factory fitted and therefore kinda knocks this idea on the head. All the other ADR, and permanent fitting can be easily encompassed, but a custom made tank up under a trailer isn’t worth the Argo by the sounds of it for 500L
annitram:
dieseldave:
Wheel Nut:
dieseldave:
Bking:
Well there are thousands of reefer trailers floating about with belly tanks fitted so whats the difference.
That’s true mate, but ADR says that a fuel tank has to be directly connected to the vehicle’s engine and/or auxiliary equipment, which I’d take to mean the running tank.
Since the belly tank isn’t (usually) connected to the vehicle’s engine, then the fuel in a belly tank has to be for auxiliary equipment such as a 'fridge or donkey engine. It’s clear that the size limit for a belly tank is 500L though.
Google gives some good answers to this question, if you type “belly tank” and “France.”
That’s a fair point Malc.
If you could get through France without your belly tank being discovered, the Germans are just next-door and they just love non-standard tanks.
Hi Dave
Just to throw a spanner in the works the German Trailer manufacturer Krone has designed a system to carry Gas in tanks
built onto the trailer to increase the range of Gas powered trucks. This is obviously no different to having belly tanks, as the purpose would have the end result ie:- more distance on cheaper fuel.
Hi annitram,
What I’ve quoted so far relates to liquid fuels (1.1.3.3,) but gases are treated a bit differently.
ADR deals with your spanner as follows:
1.1.3.2 Exemptions related to the carriage of gases
The provisions laid down in ADR do not apply to the carriage of:
(a) Gases contained in the tanks of a vehicle, performing a transport operation and destined for its propulsion or for the operation of any of its equipment (e.g. refrigerating equipment);
You’ll notice that the wording of this exemption doesn’t place any limits on quantity and the wording is quite different to the wording of the exemption for liquid fuels.
Before anybody asks why… all I can tell you is what ADR says, but I’ve no idea why it says what it says.
Doesn’t get around the OEM thing, but how about fitting a small diesel generator under the trailer chassis & pipe it up to the belly tank. Now not only can you boil the kettle or run a vacuum cleaner should you feel the need, but you’ve got ancillary equipment aboard the trailer
Driveroneuk:
Doesn’t get around the OEM thing, but how about fitting a small diesel generator under the trailer chassis & pipe it up to the belly tank. Now not only can you boil the kettle or run a vacuum cleaner should you feel the need, but you’ve got ancillary equipment aboard the trailer
That should take care of the ‘ancillary equipment’ issue thrown up by ADR, but there are also a few other laws still in play.
This thread may help on the legality in Germany
viewtopic.php?p=1417719#p1417719
Dont know what an ome tank is but i used belly tank before with my old lhd 141 that had 2 400 lt tanks, my belly tank was only 500 lt it was all i could rent at the time and the only time i got fined was st omar for the 500lt not the 800 on the unit, and yes 900 was red. If you look at the units today Scania do 2 700 lt tanks and much more than that you will have a problem. After my 141 i had tag axel 112 and stripped all the air tanks off etc tucked them all away and had large tanks, so i forget if 1000 lt red plus 50 white as i was doing traction then but i never got fined even though i got pulled a lot. Some draw bars used to have 1500 lt in a false front. That of course was then, i think the belly is long finished
dieseldave:
My reading of it is that a belly tank of no greater than 500L can be used for supplying fuel to auxiliary equipment, such as a 'fridge or a donkey engine, as long as there isn’t more than a total of 1,500L of fuel on board the (whole) vehicle.
that would make any truck with a fuel capacity of 1000+l (4x2 from all the manufacturers) pulling a fridge with a 500l tank illegal 
newmercman:
How do the Scandinavians get away with it then DD They’ve run non OEM tanks on their trucks for years and years and still do so to put their big locker boxes and outside fridges on the chassis. They have a job running anywhere in Europe without transitting Germany
if you have an approval from the manufacturer of the truck, you’re good to go.
milodon:
dieseldave:
My reading of it is that a belly tank of no greater than 500L can be used for supplying fuel to auxiliary equipment, such as a 'fridge or a donkey engine, as long as there isn’t more than a total of 1,500L of fuel on board the (whole) vehicle.
that would make any truck with a fuel capacity of 1000+l (4x2 from all the manufacturers) pulling a fridge with a 500l tank illegal
Hi milodon,
That would make you correct mate.
That 1,500L total that I’ve mentioned is only in ADR.
ADR is only valid for international journeys, so any of the ADR countries can make their own national laws that relate to domestic traffic if they wish to.
Just as two examples, the UK has national law for domestic traffic called CDG 2009, and Germany has GGVSEB.
Then there are other laws, such as Excise Duty laws and Construction & Use Regs to contend with.
Back in the 80’s and 90’s it was said the Germany and France looked badly at belly tanks and it was also mentioned that France didn’t like catwalk tanks either. Back then it was all a bit hear say and no one really knew what was going on, and we just had to rely on what other folk had said which most of the time was bol%^ks. Now it’s a bit different as it is easy to get hold if information, but there is always interpretation of the law to be taken into account.
Next bit…
A mate of mine got done with a belly tank in France, guess what colour the fuel was. It was his own fault as the tank was fairly large and pretty obvious. He was doing Turkey, out through France, Italy, ferry Greece. Back home after licking his wounds he got a friend to make a head board tank, almost full height, full width and about 7 inched thick, it held about 1000 liters. The side facing the inside of the trailer was skinned with 3/4 ply wood, and the tank brackets bolted through the original head board so the tilt cover hid everything. The out let was a run of the mill Hydrolic self shutting coupling and pocked through a hole at the bottom of the head board, in the center near the sussie connectors, it all looked pretty legitimate. The fill hose was bunged in the trailer locker, after 4 years no one had ever sussed it even at MOT time.
I run general freight and groupage, never had any dramas with it, no one ever sussed mine either. Just make sure the forklift driver doesn’t jam the prongs into it. I sat mine on a bit of old conveyor belt for added vibration protection. The main frame was made of 1 inch square tube, skinned with 1.25mm steel then the ply on that, it never cracked or leaked either. The filer was on the top of the tank, and had to be filled before the customs seal was on, and I had a baffle in it as well to stop it sloshing when it was half full.
Jeff
PS. of course all this is completely made up as I would never encourage any one to do anything illegal…
there were a few of those headboard tanks used on the Spanish job, unfortuanately they were not as well made as Jeffs and the tell tale signs were trickling down the parking area in Irun, covered up the stink of the skins a bit! The other tell tale was fuel dripping off the sheets though.
I have seen a couple of under belly tanks explode when somebody either forgot the air tap or just became a bit exhuberant with it
At least with a headboard tank you didnt need to pressurise the tank
How did you fill headboard tanks? From the top? How?
The tank was about a foot short of the height of the trailer and filled through a cap on the top of the tank. Fill it when before you load. You would use a ladder to get to the cap. As Mr Nut said there was no need to pressurize the tank as it emptied on gravity. Make sure the company making it doesn’t skrimp on half rate material as there was a lot of flex during road time so they had to be made tough, or they would crack on the bottom corners.
Jeff
Old topic but I just wonder how much pressure you could use or how much was needed to blow fuel from those belly tanks ? I have only used electric pumps myself so I don’t know.
Airpressure sounds like a good idea because it’s already available from brakesystem. Just make a 500 litre reefertank, fit airline with ballvalve from trailer airreservoir to reefertank, fit ballvalve to breather hose to keep pressure in, maybe a quickfitting to drainplug where long enough hose can be connected to reach tractor, after fuel transfer it could be disconnected and hidden not to draw too much attention. Maybe some kind of pressure regulator to airline but where should it be set at not to explode the tank ?
back when I had a 4x2 scania with twin 700l tanks, I used to blow over the last 10cm of fuel from the extra tank to the main tank with the cabin air pistol - just stick it in the breather pipe, pressurize it for a minute or so and fold the breather tube so that the pressure stays in there. it would take around 15 minutes for the tank to be empty. handy when you wanted to get to lux for example without fueling up in france where its much more expensive. I have seen a few tanks where the driver has been greedy and overpressurized the tank from 700 to about 750
milodon:
back when I had a 4x2 scania with twin 700l tanks, I used to blow over the last 10cm of fuel from the extra tank to the main tank with the cabin air pistol - just stick it in the breather pipe, pressurize it for a minute or so and fold the breather tube so that the pressure stays in there. it would take around 15 minutes for the tank to be empty. handy when you wanted to get to lux for example without fueling up in france where its much more expensive. I have seen a few tanks where the driver has been greedy and overpressurized the tank from 700 to about 750
No one seems to know so I had to Google myself, seems like 0,3 bar is enough, flowrate is more dependent on the hose diameter.
run a pipe from the belly tank to the fridge as well as to the truck tank…or has that loophole been plugged??
dieseldog999:
run a pipe from the belly tank to the fridge as well as to the truck tank…or has that loophole been plugged??
It must be connected to fridge or heater, otherwise not allowed. So no bellytanks for tilts.