I have signed on with an agency and was given the choice of PAYE or JSA umbrella. I was advised to go with JSA for a better hourly rate. I don’t like going with an umbrella as I am already self employed and already pay an accountant but it seems to be the thing now with agencies so they don’t have to process pay
Thing is using their online calculator if I earn £8.32 an hour and work 8 hours a day 5 days a week my gross pay is £333 which is already crrraaap. However my take home pay is £252! It is not even a living wage.
£ 333
less JSA Margin - £ 27.50
Expenses Offset - £ 9
Employer’s NI - £ 18
Total Taxable Pay £ 279
Salary £ 251
Holiday Pay £ 28
less Income Tax - £ 19
Employee’s NI - £ 16
NET Income £ 244
Expenses Reimbursed £9
TAKE HOME PAY £ 252
I don’t see where the expenses are calculated in the above so maybe the calculator is misleading but anyway I pay my accountant half of what these bozos charge
Agencies don’t use umbrella “to make the job easier”, but to fleece their staff.
You get all the downside of being self-employed (no holiday pay, pay two lots of stamp) but by not calling you self-employed, you don’t consider asking for £15-£18ph which is what you’d need to be paid to get more than an average £10-£11ph PAYE bod gets in their paypacket, earning a lower gross, but taking home a lot more of it!
Umbrella is a fiddle to palm off crap hourly rates onto staff who don’t know any better.
Given the choice of PAYE or Umbrella is an easy one. Umbrella is so bad, there’s even an argument that dropping a couple of shifts a week, and holding out for the decent PAYE shifts that will leave you better off using the “Thursday belongs to the taxman” principle, mentioned on other threads.
You still get your mileage and subsistence allowances on PAYE, because you’re (a) not spending more than 40% of your working year at the same place, and (b) you are away from “the office” over ten hours a day.
If the agency only give you 4-5 hour shifts, then find another one who doesn’t think ‘taking the ■■■■’ has to be their stock and trade.
tachograph:
You say you’re already self employed and pay an accountant so why don’t you go with the agency as limited company ?
As limited company you should get the same rate as you will going through an umbrella company but you won’t have to pay the umbrella company.
This agency would not take me on as self employed and gave me 2 choices only
They’ll use you if you’re ltd co and can provide them with the documentation to back it up. Or at least they should do. If they don’t then it’s a ■■■■ agency and you should find one that is less ■■■■. By the way, what’s all this about THEM telling YOU how much they’ll pay? WTF is that all about? If you’re s/e or ltd then YOU tell THEM how much you charge and they either like it or lump it. Sounds to me like you’re be better off working an as employee as you don’t seem to understand how working for yourself actually works.
tachograph:
You say you’re already self employed and pay an accountant so why don’t you go with the agency as limited company ?
As limited company you should get the same rate as you will going through an umbrella company but you won’t have to pay the umbrella company.
This agency would not take me on as self employed and gave me 2 choices only
They’ll use you if you’re ltd co and can provide them with the documentation to back it up. Or at least they should do. If they don’t then it’s a [zb] agency and you should find one that is less [zb]. By the way, what’s all this about THEM telling YOU how much they’ll pay? WTF is that all about? If you’re s/e or ltd then YOU tell THEM how much you charge and they either like it or lump it. Sounds to me like you’re be better off working an as employee as you don’t seem to understand how working for yourself actually works.
tachograph:
You say you’re already self employed and pay an accountant so why don’t you go with the agency as limited company ?
As limited company you should get the same rate as you will going through an umbrella company but you won’t have to pay the umbrella company.
This agency would not take me on as self employed and gave me 2 choices only
They’ll use you if you’re ltd co and can provide them with the documentation to back it up. Or at least they should do. If they don’t then it’s a [zb] agency and you should find one that is less [zb]. By the way, what’s all this about THEM telling YOU how much they’ll pay? WTF is that all about? If you’re s/e or ltd then YOU tell THEM how much you charge and they either like it or lump it. Sounds to me like you’re be better off working an as employee as you don’t seem to understand how working for yourself actually works.
I am already self employed and have been employing an accountant for the last 6 years so I do know how this works. I quote jobs for property maintenance and I either get them or not. This does not work in the trucking industry as agencies tell YOU how much they are prepared to pay you and if you don’t like it they get another driver. Have you ever worked for an agency? If not then don’t give your day job because agencies are con merchants. I either agreed to their terms or walked out the door and since I need to get some experience in the last 2 years to sign up with any agency I will accept anything to get that experience THEN maybe I have a choice. However I suspect drivers are 10 a penny and cut each others throats for work.
I’m on PAYE with an agency and would never entertain going umbrella. My situation is similar to yours and if I did more agency work I would go down the LTD co route.
Speak to your accountant and see what the charges would be, mine said similar to what I’m paying now.
If this agency don’t pay on LTD (can’t see why not because thats what umbrella is really), the they are real con merchants. I do understand what RobK is saying, because for the extra they pay you over PAYE it just isn’t worth it for what your losing.
No idea why they wouldn’t take you on as a Ltd company. Given they wouldn’t have to pay tax/NI contributions anyway, that’s all they’re achieving by using an umbrella. Strange.
FreddieSwan:
No idea why they wouldn’t take you on as a Ltd company. Given they wouldn’t have to pay tax/NI contributions anyway, that’s all they’re achieving by using an umbrella. Strange.
Not if you own both the umbrella and employment agency, same staff earning you an extra percentage !
FreddieSwan:
No idea why they wouldn’t take you on as a Ltd company. Given they wouldn’t have to pay tax/NI contributions anyway, that’s all they’re achieving by using an umbrella. Strange.
Not if you own both the umbrella and employment agency, same staff earning you an extra percentage !
tachograph:
You say you’re already self employed and pay an accountant so why don’t you go with the agency as limited company ?
As limited company you should get the same rate as you will going through an umbrella company but you won’t have to pay the umbrella company.
This agency would not take me on as self employed and gave me 2 choices only
They’ll use you if you’re ltd co and can provide them with the documentation to back it up. Or at least they should do. If they don’t then it’s a [zb] agency and you should find one that is less [zb]. By the way, what’s all this about THEM telling YOU how much they’ll pay? WTF is that all about? If you’re s/e or ltd then YOU tell THEM how much you charge and they either like it or lump it. Sounds to me like you’re be better off working an as employee as you don’t seem to understand how working for yourself actually works.
I am already self employed and have been employing an accountant for the last 6 years so I do know how this works. I quote jobs for property maintenance and I either get them or not. This does not work in the trucking industry as agencies tell YOU how much they are prepared to pay you and if you don’t like it they get another driver. Have you ever worked for an agency? If not then don’t give your day job because agencies are con merchants. I either agreed to their terms or walked out the door and since I need to get some experience in the last 2 years to sign up with any agency I will accept anything to get that experience THEN maybe I have a choice. However I suspect drivers are 10 a penny and cut each others throats for work.
Have I ever worked for an agency? LOL . I’ve done agency driving work for the best part of a decade so yes I do know a bit about it.
What do you mean “it doesn’t work in the trucking industry” ? WTF. It works exactly the same as anywhere else : you are a company/self-employed person that is offering your services for £x/hr. That is what you cost. They either agree to it or they don’t. If they don’t then you enquire as to how much they would be willing to pay and see if you can negotiate and meet somewhere in the middle, if it suits you. If they’re not prepared to budge then you leave them your card, bid them a good day and find a client that is prepared to pay what you want. Like I said to you in the other thread, you wouldn’t have one of your tenants telling you how much they’ll pay you to fix their bog so why would you accept an agency telling you how much THEY will pay you? Completely absurd. They only try it because they know that most drivers will just roll over and do whatever they’re told.
This is why people like me don’t find themselves working at Aldi, Yearsley, Lenham Storage, etc etc.
They don’t meet my minimums, so I don’t darken their door - simples.
When you sign up for an agency, pop the question:-
“Who are some of your clients?”
If they get all evasive, then rest assured they have all the dreg firms that only offer £8.50ph for C+E…
They’ll try and tell you that they don’t like to let outsiders know “so others can’t come in and undercut them”, but hey, you’d have to overturn the 1833 abolition act, if you’re gonna come in and undercut these crappy rates!
FreddieSwan:
No idea why they wouldn’t take you on as a Ltd company. Given they wouldn’t have to pay tax/NI contributions anyway, that’s all they’re achieving by using an umbrella. Strange.
The only reason I can think of for insisting on PAYE or a particular umbrella company is if they’re getting a backhander from the umbrella company.
My guess is that as PAYE the OP would be used for ad-hoc work when the agency can’t fill a position with an a driver being paid through the umbrella company.
Can’t be driver hire. I approached my local branch when I was thinking about driving last year. Self employed was mentioned and I said that I am already self employed as a sole trader, not Ltd. They said as long as they could see proof they’d be happy to do that and they were willing to accept my current Class 2 NIC bill with my UTR code on.
Can’t be driver hire. I approached my local branch when I was thinking about driving last year. Self employed was mentioned and I said that I am already self employed as a sole trader, not Ltd. They said as long as they could see proof they’d be happy to do that and they were willing to accept my current Class 2 NIC bill with my UTR code on.
My local driver hire said they couldn’t accept self employed…even Ltd co. It was Paye or their umbrella only
Can’t be driver hire. I approached my local branch when I was thinking about driving last year. Self employed was mentioned and I said that I am already self employed as a sole trader, not Ltd. They said as long as they could see proof they’d be happy to do that and they were willing to accept my current Class 2 NIC bill with my UTR code on.
My local driver hire said they couldn’t accept self employed…even Ltd co. It was Paye or their umbrella only
Driver Hire branches are mainly franchise so what’s the rule at one may not be the same at another. If they have an umbrella co. offering enough of an incentive then it’s up to the franchisee to set the rules I guess
Strange.
. I’ve done agency driving work for the best part of a decade so yes I do know a bit about it. 