Imagine the scene. You’ve driving across this bridge (towards this vantage point) in the middle of the night, and your car suddenly bursts into flames, threatening to blow any moment.
You emergency stop the car, and evacuate the car as a matter of emergency…
Where do you muster to, if you pulled up your car on the right side of the oncoming carriageway here, bereft of any refuge or hard shoulder?
The unfortunate victim vaulted over the central crash barrier into what she thought was the central reservation area… Only for there to be a sizable gap between the two carriageways, and a 40 foot drop to the grass bank below, mortally injured.
Had there been a hard shoulder or a refuge - she would clearly not have vaulted anywhere, and would still be alive.
Yes, it’s a case of “double whammy” wrong-place-wrong-time of her car just happening to burst into flame at a place where there was literally nowhere to run to… Fate’s a ■■■■■ sometimes, especially when even rolling a double six doesn’t get you out of the proverbial “certain death” set for one.
OR we can all try and learn from her demise, so that future lives might yet be saved from such savage “Fate”. Write to your MP. Don’t grant planning permission for any more fast roads to be built without refuges and/or hard shoulders or at least a soft level verge.
Or these tragedies will keep on happening.
I realize that this viaduct has been there for years and years - but it has recently been renovated, apparently not with any improvement that might have saved lives, it seems. What are all these “improvement” road works about - if they are not to improve our roads, make them safer, rather than merely easier to photograph for revenue gathering purposes, and the like?
RIP driver. 
Winseer:
I realize that this viaduct has been there for years and years - but it has recently been renovated, apparently not with any improvement that might have saved lives, it seems.
All bets are off in the case of a bridge high fences are as good as it gets. 
google.com/maps/@38.2711133, … 312!8i6656
Unfortunate but what is the suggestion?
You could either make a long serving dual carriageway into one lane to accommodate a hard shoulder or tear down the viaduct and rebuild it wide enough. Neither option is practical.
Ultimately it’s a freak incident that will probably not get repeated again in all likelihood.
The original post is a bit misleading, the image isn’t where the car stopped.
They didn’t stop on the bridge, the car was off the bridge when it caught fire, not by a lot but enough for them to be away from the restriction of the barriers. There’s a barrier and trees to the nearside, plenty of room for them to move down the carriageway and over the barrier to safety. For whatever reason they went back up the carriageway to warn traffic and by the looks of it onto the bridge where as we know there is nowhere to go. I’m wondering if after a night out alcohol was a contributing factor to their decisions.
It’s hardly a typical stretch of non hard shoulder m.way, you have used as an example to make your point about the bee in your bonnet about no hard shoulder is it Winseer. 
nickyboy:
The original post is a bit misleading, the image isn’t where the car stopped.
They didn’t stop on the bridge, the car was off the bridge when it caught fire, not by a lot but enough for them to be away from the restriction of the barriers. There’s a barrier and trees to the nearside, plenty of room for them to move down the carriageway and over the barrier to safety. For whatever reason they went back up the carriageway to warn traffic and by the looks of it onto the bridge where as we know there is nowhere to go. I’m wondering if after a night out alcohol was a contributing factor to their decisions.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
panic perhaps,alcohol related…perhaps,drug related after a hissy fit and strop away herself after a fallout?..perhaps.
but also darwin related to think a bridge gets built flat on top of the ground somewhat similar to a road without a drop of varying degrees.
my mouthtull of fryup sprayed from my nose when i saw the mental image of that one in my mind.
This has nothing to do with smart motorways.
Look Wincy, that google car is on the wrong side of the road again.
Where do you muster? Anyone with half a brain would go 50 yards further along the road in the direction their vehicle was travelling pre-incident and wait there, using their own immobilised vehicle as a shield…
" Excellent " misleading post Winseer !!!
The A21 is a trunk road, not a motorway !!
No hard shoulders, not a “Smart” motorway
What point are you ACTUALLY trying to make ■■?
What do you expect to be done? The council to add a hard shoulder to every stretch of road.in the UK?
One of them.things 1 in a million.accidents.
If you start going along the line of every dual.cattage way.needs a hard shoulder. What next. Every single a road needs one as well?
Winseer you seem to do plenty of complaining about motorways with no hard shoulders but not a single peep about dual carriageways? Why is that then?
Roymondo:
Where do you muster? Anyone with half a brain would go 50 yards further along the road in the direction their vehicle was travelling pre-incident and wait there, using their own immobilised vehicle as a shield…
ZB that get back up the rd the way you came if some dope hits your motor it’s not going to hit you then .
edd1974:
What do you expect to be done? The council to add a hard shoulder to every stretch of road.in the UK?
One of them.things 1 in a million.accidents.
If you start going along the line of every dual.cattage way.needs a hard shoulder. What next. Every single a road needs one as well?
You’re wasting your time mate, this is said to him on here EVERY time that he gets his thong in a knot about non hard shoulder m.ways.
He hasn’t responded for a while, he’ll be composing one of his ‘thesis/dissertation’ style mega posts to answer you soon…so take cover. 
pierrot 14:
" Excellent " misleading post Winseer !!!
The A21 is a trunk road, not a motorway !!
No hard shoulders, not a “Smart” motorway
What point are you ACTUALLY trying to make ■■?
The point I’m actually trying to make, is that with all the seemingly permanent 50mph road worked sections of trunk roads, dual carriageways, and motorways combined… How come the “imrpovements” never seem to save lives by say, widening hard shoulders, building refuges, installing telephones closer than a km apart etc. - but have those bloody flashing cameras going off day and night that don’t even take away people’s licences any more, just extract money from people? 
I passed a totally smashed up car on the M3 yesterday, no hard shoulder in that section, and a number of broken down vehicles where it was necessary for other vehicles using lane one ahead - to swerve out into lane 2, as presumably they’d only just broken down, and the gantry signs hadn’t come on “rex 'x’ing that lane” as of yet. Then you’ve got short-slip roads, barriers that give drivers nowhere to go in the event of a collision, and no instrustructure that seems to want to keep vehicles at a safe distance from each other, rather than trundling along at a slow speed with “average speed cameras” rather than the flashy ones that would pick up the odd BMW tearing down there, turning off at the junction before the next average camera, so they can go as fast as they like without the possibility of being “averaged over”… A13 Thurrock springs to mind. Too many ways to now get fined, not enough ways of having your life saved in the event of a breakdown. Also with these “Free recovery - wait with vehicle” signs you see - I’ve yet to see a vehicle being recovered in any set of roadworks anywhere… If there’s a breakdown - the traffic grinds to a complete halt, as no one can get past, including any coming rescue vehicle.
…And NO - I’m not talking about “me getting done” here. I retain my clean licence as ever - but for how much longer, I start to wonder?
I was born in a now-gone hospital that once stood on the A21 - I don’t want to end up dying on the A21, prematurely at that, one day…
Punchy Dan:
Roymondo:
Where do you muster? Anyone with half a brain would go 50 yards further along the road in the direction their vehicle was travelling pre-incident and wait there, using their own immobilised vehicle as a shield…
ZB that get back up the rd the way you came if some dope hits your motor it’s not going to hit you then .
…Not everyone else out there is as pro a driver as we’re supposed to be. WE might do what you suggest here - but an inexperienced driver who knows how to argue lost causes? I’m sure we’re not going to consider as a country to “remove inexperienced drivers” from our roads, but there does seem to be a sharp increase in bad driving of late, arguably even worse than pre-lockdown levels already by this point - with millions of people yet to get back to the rush hour grind, and get back to work yet!
What would YOU do if you were in your private car, and say, broke down in a dartford crossing bore? Stay in the car, abandon the car and stand up behind that railing on the catwalk and get gassed? Try and get out of one of those locked doors? I’ve never ever seen someone up on that catwalk, not even a road worker in 30 years of driving through the tunnel on a regular basis, and yet there seems to be a crash IN the tunnel at least once a week, coming back with a vengence in frequency again of late…
“Muster Points” - we have them for “Fire Regulations” - but how expensive would it be to have some kind of safer area to the side of motorways where people can get to in a hurry, in the event of a breakdown?
It is likely that the surprise and shock stress of a breakdown, blow-out, or any other incident that requires one to rapidly stop on a main carriageway - will require you to abandon the vehicle pronto.
…Then there’s this thing where the few refuges that DO exist - get pulled into by car drivers “wanting to take that call” FFS… Never seen Plod pulling someone for being on their phone at the wheel in my entire life!
Winseer:
pierrot 14:
" Excellent " misleading post Winseer !!!
The A21 is a trunk road, not a motorway !!
No hard shoulders, not a “Smart” motorway
What point are you ACTUALLY trying to make ■■?
The point I’m actually trying to make, is that with all the seemingly permanent 50mph road worked sections of trunk roads, dual carriageways, and motorways combined… How come the “imrpovements” never seem to save lives by say, widening hard shoulders, building refuges, installing telephones closer than a km apart etc. - but have those bloody flashing cameras going off day and night that don’t even take away people’s licences any more, just extract money from people?
I passed a totally smashed up car on the M3 yesterday, no hard shoulder in that section, and a number of broken down vehicles where it was necessary for other vehicles using lane one ahead - to swerve out into lane 2, as presumably they’d only just broken down, and the gantry signs hadn’t come on “rex 'x’ing that lane” as of yet. Then you’ve got short-slip roads, barriers that give drivers nowhere to go in the event of a collision, and no instrustructure that seems to want to keep vehicles at a safe distance from each other, rather than trundling along at a slow speed with “average speed cameras” rather than the flashy ones that would pick up the odd BMW tearing down there, turning off at the junction before the next average camera, so they can go as fast as they like without the possibility of being “averaged over”… A13 Thurrock springs to mind. Too many ways to now get fined, not enough ways of having your life saved in the event of a breakdown. Also with these “Free recovery - wait with vehicle” signs you see - I’ve yet to see a vehicle being recovered in any set of roadworks anywhere… If there’s a breakdown - the traffic grinds to a complete halt, as no one can get past, including any coming rescue vehicle.
…And NO - I’m not talking about “me getting done” here. I retain my clean licence as ever - but for how much longer, I start to wonder?
I was born in a now-gone hospital that once stood on the A21 - I don’t want to end up dying on the A21, prematurely at that, one day…
Just a thought why didn’t you either
Mention it on your next cpc course.
Or better still take it up with your local mp
Winseer:
Punchy Dan:
Roymondo:
Where do you muster? Anyone with half a brain would go 50 yards further along the road in the direction their vehicle was travelling pre-incident and wait there, using their own immobilised vehicle as a shield…
ZB that get back up the rd the way you came if some dope hits your motor it’s not going to hit you then .
…Not everyone else out there is as pro a driver as we’re supposed to be. WE might do what you suggest here - but an inexperienced driver who knows how to argue lost causes? I’m sure we’re not going to consider as a country to “remove inexperienced drivers” from our roads, but there does seem to be a sharp increase in bad driving of late, arguably even worse than pre-lockdown levels already by this point - with millions of people yet to get back to the rush hour grind, and get back to work yet!
What would YOU do if you were in your private car, and say, broke down in a dartford crossing bore? Stay in the car, abandon the car and stand up behind that railing on the catwalk and get gassed? Try and get out of one of those locked doors? I’ve never ever seen someone up on that catwalk, not even a road worker in 30 years of driving through the tunnel on a regular basis, and yet there seems to be a crash IN the tunnel at least once a week, coming back with a vengence in frequency again of late…
“Muster Points” - we have them for “Fire Regulations” - but how expensive would it be to have some kind of safer area to the side of motorways where people can get to in a hurry, in the event of a breakdown?
It is likely that the surprise and shock stress of a breakdown, blow-out, or any other incident that requires one to rapidly stop on a main carriageway - will require you to abandon the vehicle pronto.
…Then there’s this thing where the few refuges that DO exist - get pulled into by car drivers “wanting to take that call” FFS… Never seen Plod pulling someone for being on their phone at the wheel in my entire life!
Seeing as a broken down motor in the tunnel would cause gridlock Then soon as the traffic stopped I’d be standing there with cash on show in one hand my tow rope in the other ,it wouldnt be long before a decent driver was towing me out .
edd1974:
Winseer:
pierrot 14:
" Excellent " misleading post Winseer !!!
The A21 is a trunk road, not a motorway !!
No hard shoulders, not a “Smart” motorway
What point are you ACTUALLY trying to make ■■?
The point I’m actually trying to make, is that with all the seemingly permanent 50mph road worked sections of trunk roads, dual carriageways, and motorways combined… How come the “imrpovements” never seem to save lives by say, widening hard shoulders, building refuges, installing telephones closer than a km apart etc. - but have those bloody flashing cameras going off day and night that don’t even take away people’s licences any more, just extract money from people?
I passed a totally smashed up car on the M3 yesterday, no hard shoulder in that section, and a number of broken down vehicles where it was necessary for other vehicles using lane one ahead - to swerve out into lane 2, as presumably they’d only just broken down, and the gantry signs hadn’t come on “rex 'x’ing that lane” as of yet. Then you’ve got short-slip roads, barriers that give drivers nowhere to go in the event of a collision, and no instrustructure that seems to want to keep vehicles at a safe distance from each other, rather than trundling along at a slow speed with “average speed cameras” rather than the flashy ones that would pick up the odd BMW tearing down there, turning off at the junction before the next average camera, so they can go as fast as they like without the possibility of being “averaged over”… A13 Thurrock springs to mind. Too many ways to now get fined, not enough ways of having your life saved in the event of a breakdown. Also with these “Free recovery - wait with vehicle” signs you see - I’ve yet to see a vehicle being recovered in any set of roadworks anywhere… If there’s a breakdown - the traffic grinds to a complete halt, as no one can get past, including any coming rescue vehicle.
…And NO - I’m not talking about “me getting done” here. I retain my clean licence as ever - but for how much longer, I start to wonder?
I was born in a now-gone hospital that once stood on the A21 - I don’t want to end up dying on the A21, prematurely at that, one day…
Just a thought why didn’t you either
Mention it on your next cpc course.
Or better still take it up with your local mp
Yeh, I guess you’re right. I’ll just quieten down a bit, and walk by on the other side like everyone else wants to, head down, eyes downcast…
My advice to everyone will have to modify to “If you want to stay alive yourself, - keep away from those about to become statistics.”
No intervention is then required. Let nature take it’s course.
