Another Daily Rest question

Scenario…

Tuesday 18:00 → Wednesday 05:00, duty duration 11 hours
Daily rest 9 hours 30 minutes
Wednesday 14:30 → Thursday 00:15, duty duration 9 hours 45 minutes
Daily rest 19 hours 15 minutes
Thursday 19:30 → Friday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Daily rest 10 hours 30 minutes
Friday 19:30 → Saturday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Weekly rest 45 hours

Question is… How many reduced daily rests are there ?

Initially I spotted 3,
1 - 09:30 rest between first and second duties
2 - third duty exceed 13 hours in length (24 hour period from start of duty)
3 - 10:30 rest between third and fourth duties

Is there a 4th reduced daily rest for fourth duty, as like the third duty it exceeds 13 hours in duration ?

A regular daily rest must be at least 11 hours contained within 24 hours from the end of the last rest period
And
A regular daily rest must be at least 11 hours between shifts
So both of the above must happen to be a regular daily rest

ThirtyTwo:
Scenario…

Tuesday 18:00 → Wednesday 05:00, duty duration 11 hours
Daily rest 9 hours 30 minutes
Wednesday 14:30 → Thursday 00:15, duty duration 9 hours 45 minutes
Daily rest 19 hours 15 minutes
Thursday 19:30 → Friday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Daily rest 10 hours 30 minutes
Friday 19:30 → Saturday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Weekly rest 45 hours

Question is… How many reduced daily rests are there ?

Initially I spotted 3,
1 - 09:30 rest between first and second duties
2 - third duty exceed 13 hours in length (24 hour period from start of duty)
3 - 10:30 rest between third and fourth duties

Is there a 4th reduced daily rest for fourth duty, as like the third duty it exceeds 13 hours in duration ?

! can see 3 reduced daily rests
1st is because there is not 11 hours between shifts 1 and 2
2nd + 3rd is because 11 hours cannot fit into the 24 hour periods for shifts 3 and 4

PS - I clicked the wrong choice in the poll - I clicked 4 instead of 3 … sorry … need to go to specsavers !!

ROG:
! can see 3 reduced daily rests
1st is because there is not 11 hours between shifts 1 and 2
2nd + 3rd is because 11 hours cannot fit into the 24 hour periods for shifts 3 and 4

PS - I clicked the wrong choice in the poll - I clicked 4 instead of 3 … sorry … need to go to specsavers !!

Cheers Rog

So in between two shifts that are greater than 13 hours (11 hours cannot fit into the 24 hour periods for shifts 3 and 4), it doesn’t matter how many hours rest you take, as long as it’s above 9 hours, there’s no benefit in taking a standard 11 hours rest ?

ROG:
PS - I clicked the wrong choice in the poll - I clicked 4 instead of 3 … sorry … need to go to specsavers !!

Poll reset

ThirtyTwo:
So in between two shifts that are greater than 13 hours (11 hours cannot fit into the 24 hour periods for shifts 3 and 4), it doesn’t matter how many hours rest you take, as long as it’s above 9 hours, there’s no benefit in taking a standard 11 hours rest ?

That’s correct, on a single manned journey any rest time outside of the 24 hour period from the start of the shift does not count towards the daily rest.

If you do a spread-over of 13 hours and 5 minutes you’re having a reduced daily rest period, it makes no difference if you’re not going to work for the next month, if you can’t fit 11 hours of rest into the 24 hour period it’s a reduced daily rest period.

tachograph:
That’s correct, on a single manned journey any rest time outside of the 24 hour period from the start of the shift does not count towards the daily rest.

If you do a spread-over of 13 hours and 5 minutes you’re having a reduced daily rest period, it makes no difference if you’re not going to work for the next month, if you can’t fit 11 hours of rest into the 24 hour period it’s a reduced daily rest period.

Thanks tacho

But from what you’ve just said, wouldn’t that mean shift 4 is also a reduced daily rest, as it is greater than 13 hours ?

nm, i think I’m over-complicating it, either way you look at the above shifts, there is no more than 3 reduced daily rests, I was thinking about cancelling tomorrow’s shift, but I’ll carry on. I might post another shift pattern where it could equally have been confusing.

As you now seem to realise there are 3 reduced daily rest periods in the example you’ve posted, Tuesday Thursday and Friday.

Wednesday you did a spread-over of 9 hours 45 minutes then had a rest period of 19 hours 15 minutes, 14 hours and 15 minutes of that rest period was within the 24 hour period from the start of the shift at 14:30, so it’s regular daily rest period.

Scenario…Two…

Wednesday 01:00 → Wednesday 11:00, duty duration 10 hours
Daily rest 10 hours
Wednesday 21:00 → Thursday 09:30, duty duration 12 hours 30 minutes
Daily rest 10 hours
Thursday 19:30 → Friday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Daily rest 10 hours 30 minutes
Friday 19:30 → Saturday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Weekly rest 45 hours

This would be an example of 4 reduced daily rest periods then ?

ThirtyTwo:
Scenario…Two…

Wednesday 01:00 → Wednesday 11:00, duty duration 10 hours
Daily rest 10 hours
Wednesday 21:00 → Thursday 09:30, duty duration 12 hours 30 minutes
Daily rest 10 hours
Thursday 19:30 → Friday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Daily rest 10 hours 30 minutes
Friday 19:30 → Saturday 09:00, duty duration 13 hours 30 minutes
Weekly rest 45 hours

This would be an example of 4 reduced daily rest periods then ?

That’s correct 4 reduced daily rest periods, it’s illegal because you’re only allowed 3 reduced daily rest periods between 2 weekly rest periods.

edit: The only way you could do that legally would be if you had a split daily rest on one of the shifts.
A split daily rest is where you have a rest period of at-least 3 consecutive hours rest during the shift then another 9 consecutive hours rest after the shift, it still has to fit into the 24 hour period.

tachograph:
That’s correct 4 reduced daily rest periods, it’s illegal because you’re only allowed 3 reduced daily rest periods between 2 weekly rest periods.

edit: The only way you could do that legally would be if you had a split daily rest on one of the shifts.
A split daily rest is where you have a rest period of at-least 3 consecutive hours rest during the shift then another 9 consecutive hours rest after the shift, it still has to fit into the 24 hour period.

I have a problem then…

I entered the Scenario 2 to drivinghours.com/playground in week commencing Monday 17/02/2014 to the Enter Work Details sheet, the summary for the week is displayed on the Weekly Report sheet. (Scenario 1 was entered in week commencing 10/02/2014)

On the weekly report sheet it’s only showing 3 reduced daily rests, based on scenario 2, is there one of the days that should be showing 2x reduced daily rests to make it clear that there are 4 reduced daily rests, and therefore illegal, is so which day should display the x2 ?

ThirtyTwo:

tachograph:
That’s correct 4 reduced daily rest periods, it’s illegal because you’re only allowed 3 reduced daily rest periods between 2 weekly rest periods.

edit: The only way you could do that legally would be if you had a split daily rest on one of the shifts.
A split daily rest is where you have a rest period of at-least 3 consecutive hours rest during the shift then another 9 consecutive hours rest after the shift, it still has to fit into the 24 hour period.

I have a problem then…

I entered the Scenario 2 to drivinghours.com/playground in week commencing Monday 17/02/2014 to the Enter Work Details sheet, the summary for the week is displayed on the Weekly Report sheet. (Scenario 1 was entered in week commencing 10/02/2014)

On the weekly report sheet it’s only showing 3 reduced daily rests, based on scenario 2, is there one of the days that should be showing 2x reduced daily rests to make it clear that there are 4 reduced daily rests, and therefore illegal, is so which day should display the x2 ?

There appears to be something wrong with the formula in column J on the “Enter Work Detail” sheet of that spread-sheet, I’ve only had a quick look but it appears that it doesn’t show a daily rest period for the first shift after a weekly rest in any of the weeks.

Whoever wrote the spread-sheet has missed an error in the formula for the daily rest in the first shift of every working week.