Here’s a query that has cropped up and I honestly don’t know the answer or have any experience with which to think up my own answer.
With an analogue tacho, when in the 2nd man position, what will it record on my chart when the vehicle is moving?
I say POA and I am quite confident this is correct, but another far more senior to me DCPC trainer tells me that applies to digital only and an analogue will record whatever mode I select on No2 mode switch when it is moving.
From what I remember of double manning in a analogue tachgraph truck I seem to recall it shows POA.
But the the thing that makes me think otherwise is that, they do specifically mention with double manning on digital tacho, about the POA and allowing the first 45 minutes to count as break.
I have a scan of a chart here (but don’t know how to post it). The driver was clearly driving then swapped to position 2. From here on it has recorded lots of little breaks and POAs followed by a 2 hour POA - now I’m sure the driver wouldn’t have been playing with the mode switch so to me this shows the stop/start of the vehicle and he’d left the mode in the break position.
He drove 3h 40 with a 30m break in the middle, then did loads of break/POA over about 11/2 hours, then a 2 hour POA then a little break then drove again for 4 hours. The analysis has picked him up for 7h 40m drive with only a 30m break.
I challenged this and was told in an analogue the driver is expected to use the correct mode and the 45m of POA as break does not count.
I challenged that and was told their ‘senior’ trainer said so.
So I’m looking for someone with experience who knows which way it works - cos I don’t and can’t find it in a book
I did double man a truck with an analogue tacho earlier this, I’ll try and look for it tomorrow. As much to satisfy my own curiosity.
I do wonder of it shows POA to show its in a moving vehicle, and therefore the period can’t be used as daily rest.
There’s some info in the link that explains it, But from my days doing double manned work, the co driver’s mode was always set to rest IIRC that’s all it recorded trace wise, and if you are sat in the passenger seat or asleep in the bunk, your arent POA for anything
An analogue tacho in the 2nd man slot records whatever you set it to, other work, bed or square with a line through. I had never heard of poa when using them and kept the 2nd man mode on bed.
a) A speedo head type will record what it is set to for Driver 2, POA, Break/Rest, Other Work.
b) A front loader drawer type (such as Siemens 1324), will record POA for Driver 2 whilst in motion.
At least that’s what my dodgy memory (for point a) and the manual says (for point b).
Do I get a coconut?
This.
Speedo types record what they are set to. Did it in 2 motors recently and you can, and should set it to break. It’s only digital when they started defaulting to POA, and then the first 45 of your POA was accepted as break.
muckles:
they do specifically mention with double manning on digital tacho, about the POA and allowing the first 45 minutes to count as break.
I don’t think that’s correct, the guide number 2 to (EC) 561/2006 says that:
When a second crew member is available for driving when necessary, is sitting next to the driver of the vehicle and is not
actively involved in assisting the driver driving the vehicle, a period of 45 minutes of that
crew member’s ‘period of availability’ can be regarded as ‘break’.
Nothing about digital tachographs, nor does VOSA’s booklet mention POA being break only for digital tachographs.
I thought that analogue tachographs recorded whatever the mode switch was set to for the second driver, but macplaxton could be right about the draw type tachographs.
shep532:
He drove 3h 40 with a 30m break in the middle, then did loads of break/POA over about 11/2 hours, then a 2 hour POA then a little break then drove again for 4 hours. The analysis has picked him up for 7h 40m drive with only a 30m break.
As far s I can see the first 45 minutes of the two hours of POA should have been counted as break.
But pre 2006 versions of those links wouldn’t of mentioned POA the first one is dated 2006 the year that new trucks where fitted with a digital tachographs and the second is 2011
The post from macplaxton explains it … or does to me anyway.
The chart I have seen is from a later drawer type - hence it has recorded POA when moving and break when stopped.
The trainer at the analysing company is talking about the old speedo type and I had a look inside one today to see how the trace gets onto the 2nd man chart and it looks like it records whatever it is set to (you can see the movement of the stylus with the mode switch.
I kind driver who uses an old style tacho is going to try it out for me on Friday and stick a blank chart in position two for the day then we’ll compare his chart and the test one.
Tachograph - I see what you are saying about nothing referring to digital and therefore the rules apply to both. These infringements are not correct and I need to speak with the analysis company again.
muckles:
they do specifically mention with double manning on digital tacho, about the POA and allowing the first 45 minutes to count as break.
I don’t think that’s correct, the guide number 2 to (EC) 561/2006 says that:
When a second crew member is available for driving when necessary, is sitting next to the driver of the vehicle and is not
actively involved in assisting the driver driving the vehicle, a period of 45 minutes of that
crew member’s ‘period of availability’ can be regarded as ‘break’.
tommy t:
But pre 2006 versions of those links wouldn’t of mentioned POA the first one is dated 2006 the year that new trucks where fitted with a digital tachographs and the second is 2011
Maybe this would explain why I thought it might be for digital tachographs only, I hadn’t heard about it despite double manning and then I kept hearing that VOSA would accept the first 45 minutes of the POA as break in double manning operations and this seemed to coincide with the introduction of the digital tachograph.
