Agencies - A Driver's Perspective?

alder:
I don’t understand why all truck drivers in the UK don’t form their OWN agency and undercut the competitors? We know they are just taking our hourly rate, for what? If drivers formed their own national agency for truckers the benefits would be:

  • Fair distribution of work at a higher hourly rate
  • A chance for newly qualified drivers to get experience as a second man even if that was a work experience scheme where they go along to learn the job and KNOW that they will get work on the back of it
  • No messing drivers about while you hunt around to see if someone will do it cheaper!
  • Political power to fight unjust rules like one rule for foreigners and one for us

I am sure there would be other advantages like putting pressure on owners to stop them leaning on drivers to break the law for a job etc.

If we formed our own agency and undercut current prices, then we’d be paid even less still!

The problem isn’t “too many middlemen” but too little inflationary pressure on wages, mostly thanks to ongoing-high fuel prices.

Back in the 1990’s, Oil fell to $12 a barrel, even after Gulf War I. Nowdays it’s been spending most of it’s time between $75 and $110, which makes transport overly expensive to operate, unless you can cut corners with cheap labour. There’s been quite a few operators already gone west as a result of “maintaining high wages” in the face of an ongoing high fuel price.

The ongoing high fuel price in turn is a result of ■■■■■■■■■ western government policy by declaring a damned war that cannot ever have a victorious end, because there’s “too many enemy” out there, most of whom we can’t even identify in advance. The British Government realised they could never win the war against America back in the late 18th century for similar reasons. The “Enemy” looks like the rest of us. How do you tell who’s on your side, and who’s not? There were not enough of us back then to win the “war of independence” vs the newly minted United States, even with the best firepower and armed forces in the world that we had at that time. So… The colonies were let go, because the war could never be won.
A better war to wage against those that would outbreed us in our own lands is to introduce a flat rate tax and scrap all tax offsetting outright.
That way, there’d be no more large families getting benefits over long-hours workers, no workers on expense accounts instead of decent wages, and most of all - all newcomers would have to net contribute into the system, instead of taking a minimum wage job, and claiming everything under the sun, whilst not paying anything back in.
People putting in the hours get to take home more of their pay, because the flat rate tax is low - maybe 10-15% which IS possible if people on £60k plus don’t get to offset it all away as they do now, or claim more than their wages in benefits because they’ve got tribes of kids. This fair isle of ours is in great need of a serious “social engineering” project - but one that doesn’t harm anyone in the process. It isn’t right wing, just common sense - just the same as the US colonists grievances that eventually led to their breaking away from the British Empire was.

The future of Haulage.jpg

We don’t want to see fuel priced out of our affordability now do we? Lobby your MP today.

Soap Box.jpg

alder:
I don’t understand why all truck drivers in the UK don’t form their OWN agency and undercut the competitors? We know they are just taking our hourly rate, for what? If drivers formed their own national agency for truckers the benefits would be:

  • Fair distribution of work at a higher hourly rate
  • A chance for newly qualified drivers to get experience as a second man even if that was a work experience scheme where they go along to learn the job and KNOW that they will get work on the back of it
  • No messing drivers about while you hunt around to see if someone will do it cheaper!
  • Political power to fight unjust rules like one rule for foreigners and one for us

I am sure there would be other advantages like putting pressure on owners to stop them leaning on drivers to break the law for a job etc.

Happened in Burton-on-Trent a few years ago. Think it was a group of ex-Carlsberg-Tetley drivers who set up a company called Omnia. Logic was that since most of the Class 1 work round that area was brewery-focussed and most of the staff knew the job backwards they’d clean up at the expense of the “regular” agencies.

Here you go, just found a newspaper article;

http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/News/Business/Omnias-road-to-haulage-success.htm

Started off well but IIRC became just another agency. Not sure if they’re still trading.

Agencies are just a load of ■■■■■■■■ merchants. They promise it all and you get ■■■■ all. I am on 2 books and both of them want to send me to ■■■■ ■■■■ assignments which 15 hrs a day is not enough and always need staff as the companies are ■■■■. Agencies need ■■■■■■■ off and employers FORCED BY LAW to recruit people on PROPER jobs with decent conditions of PAY and work. Also a well known supermarket whom does not give a ■■■■ about health and safety as I landed up on the deck with a nice big bump on my head due to a case of cider falling off a cage and hitting me on the head. My accident was not recorded in the accident book even though I requested it and when I reported it to my depot they wanted a label off the offending cage so no leg to stand on TESCO whoops I named the tossers

Discodave:
Agencies are just a load of [zb] merchants. They promise it all and you get [zb] all. I am on 2 books and both of them want to send me to [zb] [zb] assignments which 15 hrs a day is not enough and always need staff as the companies are [zb]. Agencies need [zb] off and employers FORCED BY LAW to recruit people on PROPER jobs with decent conditions of PAY and work. Also a well known supermarket whom does not give a [zb] about health and safety as I landed up on the deck with a nice big bump on my head due to a case of cider falling off a cage and hitting me on the head. My accident was not recorded in the accident book even though I requested it and when I reported it to my depot they wanted a label off the offending cage so no leg to stand on TESCO whoops I named the tossers

Did well to find a month old thread Dave.

Whilst I sympathise entirely with the ‘promise everything, deliver nothing’ and wholeheartedly disagree with the way you’ve been treated, I don’t think there are grounds to hate agencies on the basis that we’re not politicians. I’m pretty sure there are unions that are to influence political decisions which would in turn, force employers to recruit direct as opposed to using external sources. This would however put a lot of pressure on the already flagging economy by means of increasing unemployment, unless of course firms were to take on internal recruitment teams to deal with sourcing, interviewing, compliance and legal issues. I doubt there are many transport managers that have the time to effectively manage this within a large scale operation afterall (though I may be mistaken).

Further to that, I’m pretty sure the agencies you’re registered with have nothing to do with Tesco’s Health and Safety policy. Sorry to hear of your incident however, hope that bump isn’t too severe.

FreddieSwan:

Discodave:
~snip~

Whilst I sympathise entirely with the ‘promise everything, deliver nothing’ and wholeheartedly disagree with the way you’ve been treated, I don’t think there are grounds to hate agencies on the basis that we’re not politicians. I’m pretty sure there are unions that are to influence political decisions which would in turn, force employers to recruit direct as opposed to using external sources. This would however put a lot of pressure on the already flagging economy by means of increasing unemployment, unless of course firms were to take on internal recruitment teams to deal with sourcing, interviewing, compliance and legal issues. I doubt there are many transport managers that have the time to effectively manage this within a large scale operation afterall (though I may be mistaken).

I’m sorry but that’s just typical agency nonsense.

Companies that use drivers already have a legal obligation to monitor compliance and all other legal issues concerning the use of drivers other than employment laws, and even there they still have a duty of care, recruitment agencies have very few legal obligations in that respect.

As for there being pressure on a flagging economy if companies directly employed drivers, are you seriously suggesting that it helps the economy to have so many parasites living off the backs of working people.
If that’s the case perhaps everyone should pack up work and sign on the dole, then we can all be parasites helping the economy :unamused:

When companies are struggling, they are faced with the choice of trying to get more work out of their current staff, they’ll get agency bods in to mop up the spikes in work demand that occur.

Dish out a load of new full time jobs, and you can bet your PPM boots that the hourly rates (salary/hours @ actual work) will be VERY poor indeed right now - BECAUSE the distillates prices have yet to fall back, and stay down.

I found that when faced with keeping my prior full time job, but with the overtime scrapped, and on mark-time wages, it was better if I left, and played “low field” via agencies to work a more optimum number of hours per week at decent rates to enrich myself, rather than any skintflint company policy blaming not high fuel prices, but a “lasting forever” trend of “needing to race to the bottom” to get by.

I’d rather get £350 a week for 2-3 shifts and take home £320, than work two more days just to see a £500 gross pay turn into take home £350 because I’ve got to pay my own commuting costs, meal costs, and of course taxes. Less is more. I keep saying it, but no one is listening. Stop confusing Full Time “Job For Life” contracts which just don’t happen anymore with “Full Time” meaning YOU make the hours committments, rather than the firm who can get rid of you at the drop of a hat. Not worth taking lower pay for a so-called unsecured full time contract when you realise your “job next week” is only as good as “next week’s workload at the firm” eh?

Anyone taking on a full time position right now is no more secure than an agency bod I’m telling you.
The only people who NEED to take on full time jobs are those who therefore cannot GET on agencies, because they lack the experience or age…
It’s also a lot easier for firms to employ someone “Looking for the experience” at crap pay scales too. Man and Boy starts out at “Boy” even when us veterans started out decades ago after all! :sunglasses:
From the FIRM’s point of view - Who do you think they’d rather employ? - A youngster they can get decades out of, or a middle age experienced guy who’s resentful from the start that he earns less than the cleaner, once all the overheads are taken out? SO what a few vehicles get smashed up during the teething periods… It’s all covered on the insurances - right? :unamused:

There’s no such thing as jobs for life any-more and hasn’t been for some years, but the simple fact is that most people want permanent jobs with some job security rather than working on the whim of an agency bod.

I hope you continue to like the way agencies are working in a couple of years when they’ve driven rates down so low that agency drivers will need 60 hours week just to survive.

Have you not noticed that while rates have dropped over the past few years recruitment agencies are on the increase, do you really believe that’s just coincidence.

Like many on here I was earning £8.00-£10.00 per hour doing class2 work about 12 years ago.Its hardly worth the bother going to work if you have to factor in commuting costs.I would not spend the money on training the way that the industry is now.

alamcculloch:
I would not spend the money on training the way that the industry is now.

So on that basis, most hgv trainers should pack up and become shelf stackers.

tachograph:
There’s no such thing as jobs for life any-more and hasn’t been for some years, but the simple fact is that most people want permanent jobs with some job security rather than working on the whim of an agency bod.

I hope you continue to like the way agencies are working in a couple of years when they’ve driven rates down so low that agency drivers will need 60 hours week just to survive.

Have you not noticed that while rates have dropped over the past few years recruitment agencies are on the increase, do you really believe that’s just coincidence.

If there used to be say, 4 agencies paying an average of £11ph and now there are 24 paying only £9.50 average, then how is johnny-come-lately agency number 25 going to get in, when some of the 24 are already paying £6.25ph? They can only appraoch the decent paying agencies clients and attempt to undercut them = right?
Thing is, if you’ve got a proper honest joe running the decent agency paying the decent rates, THEY - the decent agency’s clients - are going to tell some undercutting poacher to get lost, because THEY are the ones that don’t WANT Catweazle, Wet Licence, Questionable Legal Status, Rab C Nesbitt lookalikes, and other such undesirables on their books.

If someone turned up on your doorstep tomorrow and offered you £20 off your weekly shopping if done via their free delivery service, would you bite, or consider it an obvious corner-cutting con liable to leave your shopping undelivered outright, or money paid without result… Or money taken without permission on top!?

It’s all about market integrity rather than simple high/low rates now. WIth so many experienced drivers soon to retire, someone has to move up from “middle age” trucker to “outright veteran” which of course implies premium in some way. Dunno about you, but I’m already standing in line here! I’ve not been having any trouble getting the work I want at rates I want. The calls from cheapo agencies offering under for the same clients are petering out now, presumably because I’ve refused them once too often. That’s market forces at work. Agency B won’t pay what Agency A will, so I end up working over 95% of my time at Agency A, to the point I am de facto full timer for them… There’s no shortage of hours or work - it’s money and hours management the business I am in with said agency if you like…

The end of Jobs for Life has also ended Job Security. They both went together. You either had both or you have neither. It’s an illusion to think that without Union power you can have any kind of job security when you’re not number one guy in the boss’s eyes. Being number one tends to be about being related to the family business in some way or being prepared to do all the crap jobs for hardly any pay. The well paid professional guy who just comes in, gets on with it, and doesn’t cause problems? - instantly forgettable & Instantly sackable the moment they put a foot wrong.

If a full-timer is, de facto, as insecure in their job as an agency driver - but just doesn’t realise it, it’s like Will-e-coyote running off the cliff, and not falling until he looks down, looks at the camera, and then falls… :smiling_imp:

It’s also the 60 hours per week, week-in, week-out, that is going to be HARDER to get as time goes on. If an agency doesn’t fill a shift, they don’t get paid. If they’ve got drivers all working the same hours, and none available for the other hours that might be on the books, they’ll have to sub those shifts out which loses them even more money…
Better to have a spectrum of drivers all good and prepared to do the entire range of jobs available. My speciality you might say, is weekends and nights. Right now though, I’m doing days, because there’s so many folk on holiday… I’ll expect to be back on nights in september though. I also seem to get some cushier runs by being available when other drivers are not, BUT I don’t have to compromise myself in the rates or start times department to get the work - that’s my point here! - Just plug the gaps in the market with your availablility. Want office hours? - Your gonna get crappy wages and no notice start times. Want to cover someone who’s booked a monday/friday long weekend, or just heavy demand that couldn’t be met with weekend overtime among the full timers… I’m there… That’s what I do. :slight_smile:

tachograph:
I’m sorry but that’s just typical agency nonsense.

Companies that use drivers already have a legal obligation to monitor compliance and all other legal issues concerning the use of drivers other than employment laws, and even there they still have a duty of care, recruitment agencies have very few legal obligations in that respect.

As for there being pressure on a flagging economy if companies directly employed drivers, are you seriously suggesting that it helps the economy to have so many parasites living off the backs of working people.
If that’s the case perhaps everyone should pack up work and sign on the dole, then we can all be parasites helping the economy :unamused:

If you hadn’t picked up the tone of my post, I was being somewhat sarcastic. Other than your last line I don’t think you were replying in kind. :slight_smile:

You’re entirely correct on principle of firms having their own processes in place with regards to compliance, legality and suchlike - of course they do. The office staff are there for a reason after all. My point was more toward the concept of closing down agencies making thousands of people redundant in the process. I don’t think as suggested that firms would simply say “Oh we’ve lost 7 agency drivers, let’s employ 7 full time drivers” because quite frankly, it’s not that simple.

I wish any HGV trainer luck trying to get a start as a shelf stacker.That ship sailed a long time ado crewed with agency and E .Europeans.No matter how you cut it there is a large available labour pool out there and nothing like enough jobs for all of us.Then you can factor in the Police and firemen who like to play with our toys on their days off just for a bit of extra pocket money.

tachograph:
There’s no such thing as jobs for life any-more and hasn’t been for some years, but the simple fact is that most people want permanent jobs with some job security rather than working on the whim of an agency bod.

I hope you continue to like the way agencies are working in a couple of years when they’ve driven rates down so low that agency drivers will need 60 hours week just to survive.

Have you not noticed that while rates have dropped over the past few years recruitment agencies are on the increase, do you really believe that’s just coincidence.

i have to disagree there Rikki. i have seen rates go up over the past 6 years with different agencies although one has not increased their rates in 3 years. i have just been offered £12/13 per hour which is substantially more than i have got anywhere else plus the guy i spoke to sounds like he is worth getting on board with. new to the industry and got his class 1 licence to see what life is like at the sharp end. i heard that they got a contract that i am interested in so i approached him and it sounds promising. he doesnt know the details of the job yet but i will get the feelers out myself and they will be no more than a form of payment for services rendered. he has a time limit to find X amount of drivers and they will be on an ongoing job with fixed start times. sounds too good to be true but as i said, i will get the feelers out myself and get first hand information