Agencies - A Driver's Perspective?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

FreddieSwan:
Bungle666 - If I was targeted by my boss at say, 28%, paying you £7 would mean I’d have to charge a minimum of £11.47 just to meet my target. Like the large majority of professions, I have targets. If I don’t hit said targets, I’d be sacked - obviously not a desirable outcome. If I was then paying you £7 and happened to mention I was charging £11.47 - I don’t think you’d be either a) happy working for me or b) not kicking up a fuss about pay/charge rates. Of course you’d expect more. Realistically, the way to do that is by using Umbrella services (or you set up LTD), in which case it moves. Same charge at £11.47 means the rate is now able to be upped to £8.26.

  • This is obviously an example and doesn’t reflect my rates, given the same information you could work it out with a calculator.

It should not be target driven. It’s this kind of BS that is a big contributory factor to why the rates have gone south over the past few years with the other big contributory factor being that everyone and their brother has decided to set up an agency when there isn’t enough work to go round and so it has resulted in one huge undercutting-fest which of course filters straight down to the drivers. And don’t even get me started on the umbrella BS. :imp:

Most of my vocational driving career has been agency work and I know pretty much every trick in the book that you guys use. I did think about listing them all here but then I realised there aren’t enough hours in the day. My opinion on agencies doesn’t get much lower. They prey on the naive and desperate who don’t understand how the “game” works and will use them to make as much money for them as possible without giving a toss for the driver’s welfare or loyalty. The days of decent agencies where loyalty and doing a good job counted for something are long gone (with a very small number of exceptions). Now it’s just a bums-on-seats “service” where margins have been cut back to pennies due to 1,000,000 other agencies all wanting a piece of the same pie and rates have gone so far south that in some circumstances you’re actually paid less than the client’s own full time drivers.

The above is not helped by agencies and media outlets advertising huge earning potentials and continuing to pedal the myth that there is a national driver shortage so the industry is being flooded with newbies that see LGV driving as an easy and big earner. Agencies are preying on this and hence how they can get away with offering £8.50/hr for Sunday work (recent thread on here) and getting drivers that are happy to work for that. 3 years ago the Sunday rate on agency round here was £18-18.50/hr and that wasn’t a one-off either, it was fairly regular work. Not surprisingly you won’t find any of us agency old-timer’s with much good to say about agencies.

82

Well my two pennies…

I have worked for some zb agencies and currently working for a good one.

Booked 2 days ahead for nearly all jobs. They plan rest periods without ringing me at silly o clock to see when I am free etc.

The rates are good, £11 nights with 1.5x overtime. Saturday £111.5 and Sunday / bank hols £112

These are Ltd self employed rates and I think it would be £1 less if not self employed.

I have never been cancelled at the last minute and always been paid on time. Average week is £950 for 55 hours. This week is going to be much higher because of the bank holiday.

I am sorry if it sounds like I am bragging, I am simply pointing out there are good agencies out there and there is money to make.

83

tallyman:

Speedy Duck:
…How are you going to deal with drivers’ complaints from within your trade?

Simple answer, the complaints will be ignored because an agency driver is purely a commodity - bought cheap and sold on at a higher rate, same as any other commodity. Because of the current glut of drivers they are a cheap commodity, as can be seen by the fact that rates have not increased, and have gone down in many instances, for a number of years now.

Anyone who thinks that agencies are there to provide work for drivers has got it the wrong way around, they are there to provide cheap labour for employers and, as such, they have little or no incentive to be on the driver’s side and to support complaints.

If drivers are traded merely like a commodity, then it’s about time that trading process itself was dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century the same way general commodity trading has.

I can get 1000 barrels of crude oil easier than I could book a driver for my business. I could shift even a single 100oz bar of gold easier and cheaper than I could shoehorn myself into a shift AS a driver that’ll actually make me some net profit first time out, rather than a loss leader expected out of me.

The whole system is wrong on so many levels…
We need an electronic driver’s labour exchange where you turn up, book into a shift yourself, and you get “ratings” points based upon customer feedback and of course any unprofessional behaviour.
A bit like Ebay you might say, which is an Irony, because I never use it. I don’t like the way Ebay charges for you to advertise what you’ve got for sale. In that regard, I think we’d all be better off paying over a percentage of the booking wage, thus encouraging the exchange (the new agency) to push long shifts at higher hourly rates to the front… :bulb:

84

"Have you not considered the fact that the simple reason for your last point is that the client phones half a dozen agencies (or they phone him) and orders x number of drivers to fill x shifts. First come first served applies just as equally to the client/agency relationship as it does to driver/agency. Since you’re registered with more than one, you’ll get more than one call. You can’t blame the agencies for that. :slight_smile: "

I don’t object ever to being offered more than one type of job on the same day. It’s rare though.
Usually, I’m offered the same job 5 minutes after taking it from another agency, which means sometimes the lower-paying one will have got their oar in first. Not good for me, OR my main agency.
I can’t very well hmm and arrr over taking it “in case I get another call in 5 minutes” can I?

There’s not enough variety among the block bookers I’m saying, whereas those client firms paying the lowest rates seem to be the only ones asking for “leave cover” which would be booked with a sensible amount of notice.

Going back to the commodity argument: In a PROPER market, both the buyer and seller can expect a minimum standard which the exchange guarantees at all times. When you buy Gold, it isn’t alloyed with Lead. Order 1000 barrels of crude, and you’ll get Brent if you want it delivered to your nominated place, or WTI if you’re prepared to go and get it yourself. (Main reason why Brent is so much more expensive than WTI btw)
Trades in “Sour” crude (the type you get from the middle east) are done in bulk mostly between countries rather than small clients, hence the lack of transaction transparency. They don’t put it through the exchange, and only firms like Platts attempt to report the “going rates” at which off-exchange crude changes hands. They are currently under investigation for price rigging as well. :smiling_imp:

All this could be applied to a labour exchange by only taking on a minimum standard of driver coupled with a client paying a minimum wage (not THE minimum wage) for a minimum number of hours.
At a glance, the client is going to plump for an agency with the most profiles of drivers “up their street” for the kind of work they have. Drivers in turn are going to plump for say, dairys & food outlets if they want to be snowed under with early turn work, and freight if they want something more overnight. Daytime work is going to be mostly deliveries, but no prob - some people DO like 9-5 multidrop ya know! :wink:

85

Winseer:
The whole system is wrong on so many levels…
We need an electronic driver’s labour exchange where you turn up, book into a shift yourself, and you get “ratings” points based upon customer feedback and of course any unprofessional behaviour.
A bit like Ebay you might say, which is an Irony, because I never use it. I don’t like the way Ebay charges for you to advertise what you’ve got for sale. In that regard, I think we’d all be better off paying over a percentage of the booking wage, thus encouraging the exchange (the new agency) to push long shifts at higher hourly rates to the front… :bulb:

That is the LAST thing we need. De Poel tried that and it caused a monumental ■■■■ storm and didn’t go well for them. The “customer feedback” part works perfectly fine as it is : if you do a good job and don’t put the truck in a ditch then you get asked back and eventually winds up in you being asked for by name each time. Play your cards right and you can cut out the agency completely and contract yourself directly to them for even more £££.

86

Rob K:

Winseer:
The whole system is wrong on so many levels…
We need an electronic driver’s labour exchange where you turn up, book into a shift yourself, and you get “ratings” points based upon customer feedback and of course any unprofessional behaviour.
A bit like Ebay you might say, which is an Irony, because I never use it. I don’t like the way Ebay charges for you to advertise what you’ve got for sale. In that regard, I think we’d all be better off paying over a percentage of the booking wage, thus encouraging the exchange (the new agency) to push long shifts at higher hourly rates to the front… :bulb:

That is the LAST thing we need. De Poel tried that and it caused a monumental [zb] storm and didn’t go well for them. The “customer feedback” part works perfectly fine as it is : if you do a good job and don’t put the truck in a ditch then you get asked back and eventually winds up in you being asked for by name each time. Play your cards right and you can cut out the agency completely and contract yourself directly to them for even more £££.

The trouble is, even when you do a good job you DON’T know where your next shift is coming from, and you’re pay pay paying all the damned way with outfits like DePoel.
An exchange acts for both sides equally. Current agencies act for the client, and drivers come a poor second to that so-called market force which is nothing more than a “Race to the bottom” - the cancer of “just in time” business model. Clients don’t care about getting supplied with a poor driver, as it’s just a claim on insurance if things go wrong. They want drivers that are as good as possible for as little as possible, not realising that drivers going to work for a loss CANNOT last once the economy changes course again, which like luck, always happens sooner or later. :wink:

87

Rob K:

Winseer:
The whole system is wrong on so many levels…
We need an electronic driver’s labour exchange where you turn up, book into a shift yourself, and you get “ratings” points based upon customer feedback and of course any unprofessional behaviour.
A bit like Ebay you might say, which is an Irony, because I never use it. I don’t like the way Ebay charges for you to advertise what you’ve got for sale. In that regard, I think we’d all be better off paying over a percentage of the booking wage, thus encouraging the exchange (the new agency) to push long shifts at higher hourly rates to the front… :bulb:

That is the LAST thing we need. De Poel tried that and it caused a monumental [zb] storm and didn’t go well for them. The “customer feedback” part works perfectly fine as it is : if you do a good job and don’t put the truck in a ditch then you get asked back and eventually winds up in you being asked for by name each time. Play your cards right and you can cut out the agency completely and contract yourself directly to them for even more £££.

To my immense surprise I find meself agreeing 100% with Rob here. :smiley:

Anyone who thinks agency work is insecure and the rates are crap ought to have done that kind of work back in the 80’s like I did. No holiday pay at all back then, and when I first started (1983) Class 1 rate was £2.40 per hour in Nottingham.

You might think pay rates are poor now, but it’s no use blaming just the agencies for that. Thank the minimum wage, that marvellous socialist invention which has completely killed off pay differentials and ensured that skilled manual workers like us now earn no more than the bloke who sweeps the warehouse floor.

88

Call me naive, old fashioned, ridiculous, or any other insult or label you can come up with, but all this ■■■■■■■■, bad feeling and unneccessary bull sh could be easily eradicated :bulb: …Go back to the tried and trusted way of a Transport company directly employing a driver for a mutually fair rate of pay, everybodys happy, the wages are more realistic, the driver is not being held to ransom, the employer is getting a better service because of loyalty resulting from fair treatment, but best of all the parasitic middle men, commonly known as agencies are not getting their cut as they are not needed any longer.
I hate agencies, they have become like the trade unions in the 70s, a good idea in principle, but have achieved too much power to the point where the tail is wagging the dog, the situation definitely needs sorting, end of!

89

robroy:
Call me naive, old fashioned, ridiculous, or any other insult or label you can come up with, but all this ■■■■■■■■, bad feeling and unneccessary bull sh could be easily eradicated :bulb: …Go back to the tried and trusted way of a Transport company directly employing a driver for a mutually fair rate of pay, everybodys happy, the wages are more realistic, the driver is not being held to ransom, the employer is getting a better service because of loyalty resulting from fair treatment, but best of all the parasitic middle men, commonly known as agencies are not getting their cut as they are not needed any longer.
I hate agencies, they have become like the trade unions in the 70s, a good idea in principle, but have achieved too much power to the point where the tail is wagging the dog, the situation definitely needs sorting, end of!

Agencies are not the only “parasitic” middle-men in transport. Backload clearing houses are, IMO, just as bad if not worse; ask your gaffer.

Transport occupies a rather unique position in industry being one of the few instances where the operator is effectively being permanently shafted from all sides; customers wanting stuff moved for next to nowt, drivers wanting higher wages, oil companies and governments screwing them over fuel costs and duty, legislators applying more and more (often pointless and unworkable) hoops for companies and drivers to jump through, the list is endless.

That tried and trusted way is good if you can get it; sadly it’s more the exception than the rule these days.

90

Sidevalve:

robroy:
Call me naive, old fashioned, ridiculous, or any other insult or label you can come up with, but all this ■■■■■■■■, bad feeling and unneccessary bull sh could be easily eradicated :bulb: …Go back to the tried and trusted way of a Transport company directly employing a driver for a mutually fair rate of pay, everybodys happy, the wages are more realistic, the driver is not being held to ransom, the employer is getting a better service because of loyalty resulting from fair treatment, but best of all the parasitic middle men, commonly known as agencies are not getting their cut as they are not needed any longer.
I hate agencies, they have become like the trade unions in the 70s, a good idea in principle, but have achieved too much power to the point where the tail is wagging the dog, the situation definitely needs sorting, end of!

Agencies are not the only “parasitic” middle-men in transport. Backload clearing houses are, IMO, just as bad if not worse; ask your gaffer.
Transport occupies a rather unique position in industry being one of the few instances where the operator is effectively being permanently shafted from all sides; customers wanting stuff moved for next to nowt, drivers wanting higher wages, oil companies and governments screwing them over fuel costs and duty, legislators applying more and more (often pointless and unworkable) hoops for companies and drivers to jump through, the list is endless.
That tried and trusted way is good if you can get it; sadly it’s more the exception than the rule these days.

Yeh, you’re right, and after owning a small fleet myself many years ago I have experience of everything you say. But keeping to the agency theme, at that time (early to mid 80s) they were just a relatively new concept, if you were short of a driver temporarily you used them, although I never did as they had a reputation at that time of using inexperienced or bad drivers that done damage.
If I had a good driver I went all out to keep him, as a content or happy driver is a productive one, a unhappy or exploited driver, as illustrated by a lot of agency drivers on here, isn’t.

91

I have used agencies at different times, the biggest problem for me is the barefaced natural lying of agency allocators, totally unable to comprehend honesty and straightforward dealing in some not all cases, unable further to realise that many drivers are still decent straight people that prefer an honest ‘‘no there’s nothing doing’’, to dreaming up some crap excuses to keep you waiting by the phone.

One clerk got most put out when the customer insisted i be their regular driver for one particular job, he told me no work for me the next day and when i said at the customers premises i won’t be in tomorrow, met with surprise as they’d alreday told me i’d be in, a phone call from the customer reminding the allocator who was paying whom soon resolved that one, even got my own regular rental tractor which for some reason upset the clerk too.

We as drivers have got to get back to making ourselves employable again if we are going to get ourselves full time employed and see the reduction of agencies.

My present employer uses one trusted agency, and in rare cases takes the best drivers on full time.

I say rare cases because even though they are in most cases looking for full time jobs, some of these agency drivers can’t help making themselves unemployable, moaning from the second they arrive to the moment you breath a sigh of relief as they depart.

Other more sensible employable drivers are in good spirits, do the job well look after the equipment and generally make themselves indespensible.

One bloke in particular i have in mind the company created a perment full time shift for him, as agency he was completely reliable would always get the job done with no issues or damage, do anything to help out and was obvious first choice (not cos he crept or sucked up but appreciated a good job and wanted permenet), he’s now full time on approx £37k salary for around 45 hours.

Not all but too many drivers will find themselves stuck on agencies and ■■■■ poor jobs for much of their lives, if it suits them for various reasons thats fine, but wingeing and being as awkward as possible when arguably you should be creating the best impression possible isn’t going to secure any offers of permanent work.

Conversely making sure when we do have good jobs that we do everything we can to keep costs down and make the job runs right can only help secure our own jobs when the comany is doing well.

92

Sidevalve:

Rob K:

Winseer:
The whole system is wrong on so many levels…
We need an electronic driver’s labour exchange where you turn up, book into a shift yourself, and you get “ratings” points based upon customer feedback and of course any unprofessional behaviour.
A bit like Ebay you might say, which is an Irony, because I never use it. I don’t like the way Ebay charges for you to advertise what you’ve got for sale. In that regard, I think we’d all be better off paying over a percentage of the booking wage, thus encouraging the exchange (the new agency) to push long shifts at higher hourly rates to the front… :bulb:

That is the LAST thing we need. De Poel tried that and it caused a monumental [zb] storm and didn’t go well for them. The “customer feedback” part works perfectly fine as it is : if you do a good job and don’t put the truck in a ditch then you get asked back and eventually winds up in you being asked for by name each time. Play your cards right and you can cut out the agency completely and contract yourself directly to them for even more £££.

To my immense surprise I find meself agreeing 100% with Rob here. :smiley:

Anyone who thinks agency work is insecure and the rates are crap ought to have done that kind of work back in the 80’s like I did. No holiday pay at all back then, and when I first started (1983) Class 1 rate was £2.40 per hour in Nottingham.
You might think pay rates are poor now, but it’s no use blaming just the agencies for that. Thank the minimum wage, that marvellous socialist invention which has completely killed off pay differentials and ensured that skilled manual workers like us now earn no more than the bloke who sweeps the warehouse floor.

In 1983 I was a night barman on £1.29ph. If one likens this wage to today’s minimum wage, then £2.40ph in 1983 is about £12ph adjusted for inflation.
£12ph is the TOP END rather than entry level for PAYE Class 1 agency work these days. I’d say wages were good in 1983 for agency work from what you’ve said!
I agree with you about differentials being destroyed though, but I don’t blame minimum wage for causing that - I blame the “no conscience” insurance industry that doesn’t give a ■■■■ how much goes wrong if it’s cheap enough… :frowning:

93

robroy:
Call me naive, old fashioned, ridiculous, or any other insult or label you can come up with, but all this ■■■■■■■■, bad feeling and unneccessary bull sh could be easily eradicated :bulb: …Go back to the tried and trusted way of a Transport company directly employing a driver for a mutually fair rate of pay, everybodys happy, the wages are more realistic, the driver is not being held to ransom, the employer is getting a better service because of loyalty resulting from fair treatment, but best of all the parasitic middle men, commonly known as agencies are not getting their cut as they are not needed any longer.
I hate agencies, they have become like the trade unions in the 70s, a good idea in principle, but have achieved too much power to the point where the tail is wagging the dog, the situation definitely needs sorting, end of!

When one observes full time drivers from an outsider’s perspective, one sees a lot of latter day “leaning on broom” type work practices. Everyone seems to tear arse about on their runs, which isn’t ever going to be safe, and around the office, everyone takes a “put kettle on, I’m gonna skive for another hour” type work ethic there.

Pushing pay down has also resulted in drivers doing less and less non-driving work. Back in the 90’s I would be expected to drive various kinds of mech handling kit from reach trucks to PPM’s and indoor/outdoor fork trucks. We’d be expected to know how to process stuff ourselves on the computers, and some of the warehousing paperwork side as well.
Having a full time job today seems to have a fair number of drivers lapsing into some kind of “you can’t get my 'cos I’m a full timer” when the original song was “you can’t get me 'cos I’m in the Union” from what I remember. :open_mouth:

Well… NEWS NEWS Jobs for life are DEAD. Believing you’re still gonna be safe in another 5-10 years is living in a dreamworld. The industry is full of old geezers hanging on by their fingernails as it is, having gone past the age of 65, and finding out too late in the day that they won’t be able to live off that pension after all. Nothing for it, but to “bed block” a job that needs to be handed down to someone younger with a mortgage to pay and a family to raise. Someone aged 30-55 is going to find it damned hard to get a full timer’s job nowdays on the decent terms & conditions of the retiring bod. Firms would take on anyone, but there’s a minimum experience requirement, and aim too high, and chances are you’ll find someone like me across the counter, not willing to work for near minimum wage compounded by longer than 36 hours per week… So the full time vacancy gets filled by some wet-licenced bod, or another sideways-shifted “deferred retirement” individual from another yard…

Agencies are a symptom of what’s wrong with the whole transport and working man’s industry - not the cause. :wink:
Too much business and cut-throat competition, and it’s inevitable the ranks of agencies nationwide will flood with incompetent johnny come lately’s or worse, some crook who can only get their oar in because they have no problem with lying from start to finish.

I just don’t see how scrapping the minimum wage is going to solve this problem, and blaming anything like “socialist” policies for all the labour market’s ills seems way off-beam as well. :confused:

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away… Workers earned enough to pay taxes, & mortgages and have enough left for holidays and cars.

94

Here’s my latest experience.

Advert says New Contract South Birmingham.

Turns out to be DHL Hams Hall.

I said ‘is that South Birmingham’ he replied 'well I haven’t put a compass on it but I would say so.

95

On Tuesday my son applied for a fork lift job through an agency with a branch in Dudley,he’s desperate for work and is prepared to travel.
He drove the 40 miles to Dudley,and when they saw his CV they gave him a question and answer test on ADR,CPC,Hiab and fork lift.
He got over 70% on the fork lift questions,and over 90% on the ADR,CPC and Hiab.
So they asked why he’d only applied for the forkies job and he told them that was the only job they’d advertised.
However,they said that due to his high score,they had some contracts local to Stoke,a class 2 ADR delivering gas cylinders,a class 2 Hiab job for our local Jewsons and something else local.
The agency said they would sort out the job before the weekend and ring him.
One week later,■■■■ all!No phone call,so what’s new■■?

96

Is there perhaps a reluctance to disappoint incoming applicants with a “Sorry bud, job has already gone”…?
Just say anything to get them to leave, and defer the disappointment until they are beyond the point of ever coming back - by the looks of it.

97

bestbooties:
However,they said that due to his high score,they had some contracts local to Stoke,a class 2 ADR delivering gas cylinders,a class 2 Hiab job for our local Jewsons and something else local.
The agency said they would sort out the job before the weekend and ring him.
One week later,[zb] all!No phone call,so what’s new■■?

You’re banking on one of no more than half a dozen full-time drivers being on holiday this week, and assuming they don’t already have a guy available to cover.

Bear in mind also, weather getting (slowly) warmer so less demand on gas, Bank Holiday week so building trade slow, and that any cover needed for this week would’ve been sorted a fortnight ago. Consultant may well have given it a try, never a bad move when you get a new HIAB or ADR driver on the books.

I wouldn’t be too disappointed; Class 2 agency work is notoriously hit and miss, just be thankful they did pick up on his extra skills cos at least it gives him a half chance of getting something. From experience, if he does manage to get in with Jewson or Travis Perkins etc he’ll be kept busy once he gets his feet under the table. They tend to prefer regular relief guys.

98

I work through an agency in the west midlands,a one office company ,they are 100 % honest and do what they say they will do I’ve got no complaints .but then I am 100 % reliable and do a decent job .and I get 60 hours a week on average !

99

orcadian:
I work through an agency in the west midlands,a one office company ,they are 100 % honest and do what they say they will do I’ve got no complaints .but then I am 100 % reliable and do a decent job .and I get 60 hours a week on average !

orcadian
MEMBER
Posts: >>3<<
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:45 pm

ahh… if only that number were 3 thousand and something…

100

I don’t understand why all truck drivers in the UK don’t form their OWN agency and undercut the competitors? We know they are just taking our hourly rate, for what? If drivers formed their own national agency for truckers the benefits would be:

  • Fair distribution of work at a higher hourly rate
  • A chance for newly qualified drivers to get experience as a second man even if that was a work experience scheme where they go along to learn the job and KNOW that they will get work on the back of it
  • No messing drivers about while you hunt around to see if someone will do it cheaper!
  • Political power to fight unjust rules like one rule for foreigners and one for us

I am sure there would be other advantages like putting pressure on owners to stop them leaning on drivers to break the law for a job etc.