gingerfold:
The turbo-charged AVT 470 and AVT 690 engines were for South American export vehicles operating at high altitudes to get more air into the engines. The AVT 690 was also used as an industrial unit in aircraft starting sets and for some pumping applications. The AVT 1100 was for dumptrucks as you correctly state Ramone, but it also had other applications in railcars, generators, and pumps. It was also used as power station startup units and some still survive at Ferrybridge Power Station and at a Power Station in Ireland. The latter were rebuilt a couple of years ago by two AEC experts, one of whom I believe contributes to this forum.
and to finland VANAJA the smaler finnish manufacturer used AEC engines 470 505 690 760(only small number)and even ergo cabs.
I would think the engines you quoted would be naturally aspirated the AVT engines were turbo versions which were very rare
250 hp 690 late sixties sure ■■■ was charged sisu had leyland 265 , they had to compar whit scania 260 volvo 240 in that time. only fwew 760 av whit ergo cabs were built.
all other where bonneted
I think ,but could be wrong that the max power from the AV760 was 226bhp so it seems 250bhp from the 690 could well have been turbocharged we need Gingerfold to intervene at this point he will put us right[/qu
Yes, max rating for the AV760 was given at 226 bhp, but AEC used the old imperial bhp rating. Metric equivalent bhp rating were 9% higher, so 226 + 9% =246 bhp, near enough to 250 bhp.
just cheked in vanaja tread 690 250hp after 68 275hp sisu uesed 680(leyland) and RR 265 300. as same else here says,can bee wrong
LB76:
Hi all, still a load of stuff to post re the AEC MkV rigid but a move of abode and getting sorted in new premises have put it on the back burner, will put the rest of the restoration pics up as soon as i get straight!
gingerfold:
The turbo-charged AVT 470 and AVT 690 engines were for South American export vehicles operating at high altitudes to get more air into the engines. The AVT 690 was also used as an industrial unit in aircraft starting sets and for some pumping applications. The AVT 1100 was for dumptrucks as you correctly state Ramone, but it also had other applications in railcars, generators, and pumps. It was also used as power station startup units and some still survive at Ferrybridge Power Station and at a Power Station in Ireland. The latter were rebuilt a couple of years ago by two AEC experts, one of whom I believe contributes to this forum.
and to finland VANAJA the smaler finnish manufacturer used AEC engines 470 505 690 760(only small number)and even ergo cabs.
I would think the engines you quoted would be naturally aspirated the AVT engines were turbo versions which were very rare
250 hp 690 late sixties sure ■■■ was charged sisu had leyland 265 , they had to compar whit scania 260 volvo 240 in that time. only fwew 760 av whit ergo cabs were built.
all other where bonneted
I think ,but could be wrong that the max power from the AV760 was 226bhp so it seems 250bhp from the 690 could well have been turbocharged we need Gingerfold to intervene at this point he will put us right
Yes, max rating for the AV760 was given at 226 bhp, but AEC used the old imperial bhp rating. Metric equivalent bhp rating were 9% higher, so 226 + 9% =246 bhp, near enough to 250 bhp.
Would the TL12 have been quoted at the old imperial rating or the metric.It was around 273 bhp so not a great difference at the metric rating but a much more rapid performance
gingerfold:
The turbo-charged AVT 470 and AVT 690 engines were for South American export vehicles operating at high altitudes to get more air into the engines. The AVT 690 was also used as an industrial unit in aircraft starting sets and for some pumping applications. The AVT 1100 was for dumptrucks as you correctly state Ramone, but it also had other applications in railcars, generators, and pumps. It was also used as power station startup units and some still survive at Ferrybridge Power Station and at a Power Station in Ireland. The latter were rebuilt a couple of years ago by two AEC experts, one of whom I believe contributes to this forum.
and to finland VANAJA the smaler finnish manufacturer used AEC engines 470 505 690 760(only small number)and even ergo cabs.
I would think the engines you quoted would be naturally aspirated the AVT engines were turbo versions which were very rare
250 hp 690 late sixties sure ■■■ was charged sisu had leyland 265 , they had to compar whit scania 260 volvo 240 in that time. only fwew 760 av whit ergo cabs were built.
all other where bonneted
I think ,but could be wrong that the max power from the AV760 was 226bhp so it seems 250bhp from the 690 could well have been turbocharged we need Gingerfold to intervene at this point he will put us right
Yes, max rating for the AV760 was given at 226 bhp, but AEC used the old imperial bhp rating. Metric equivalent bhp rating were 9% higher, so 226 + 9% =246 bhp, near enough to 250 bhp.
Would the TL12 have been quoted at the old imperial rating or the metric.It was around 273 bhp so not a great difference at the metric rating but a much more rapid performance
The TL12 for the Marathon was rated in Imperial bhp and the urban legend is that its power output caused Volvo to introduce the 290 power rating for the F88, and of course the loss of relability that Volvo suffered as a consequence.
gingerfold:
The turbo-charged AVT 470 and AVT 690 engines were for South American export vehicles operating at high altitudes to get more air into the engines. The AVT 690 was also used as an industrial unit in aircraft starting sets and for some pumping applications. The AVT 1100 was for dumptrucks as you correctly state Ramone, but it also had other applications in railcars, generators, and pumps. It was also used as power station startup units and some still survive at Ferrybridge Power Station and at a Power Station in Ireland. The latter were rebuilt a couple of years ago by two AEC experts, one of whom I believe contributes to this forum.
and to finland VANAJA the smaler finnish manufacturer used AEC engines 470 505 690 760(only small number)and even ergo cabs.
I would think the engines you quoted would be naturally aspirated the AVT engines were turbo versions which were very rare
250 hp 690 late sixties sure ■■■ was charged sisu had leyland 265 , they had to compar whit scania 260 volvo 240 in that time. only fwew 760 av whit ergo cabs were built.
all other where bonneted
I think ,but could be wrong that the max power from the AV760 was 226bhp so it seems 250bhp from the 690 could well have been turbocharged we need Gingerfold to intervene at this point he will put us right
Yes, max rating for the AV760 was given at 226 bhp, but AEC used the old imperial bhp rating. Metric equivalent bhp rating were 9% higher, so 226 + 9% =246 bhp, near enough to 250 bhp.
Would the TL12 have been quoted at the old imperial rating or the metric.It was around 273 bhp so not a great difference at the metric rating but a much more rapid performance
The TL12 for the Marathon was rated in Imperial bhp and the urban legend is that its power output caused Volvo to introduce the 290 power rating for the F88, and of course the loss of relability that Volvo suffered as a consequence.
beeing reading vanaja history. av690 rated 200 in finland(64-67) av 691 217 hp 68-70 AVT 690 250(64-67) even275 68-70 mandator like ergo +760 only made 11 norm motors and some 20 3 and4 axle cranecarriers 69/73 then saga at end.
gingerfold:
Yes, and they stormed along in the Marathon with every bit of that output.
I wonder if AEC and Leyland would have been better off developing the AV760 rather than the headless wonder did the output increase when it became the Flexitorque in the Roadtrain?
gingerfold:
Yes, and they stormed along in the Marathon with every bit of that output.
I wonder if AEC and Leyland would have been better off developing the AV760 rather than the headless wonder did the output increase when it became the Flexitorque in the Roadtrain?
Before the TL12 was developed by Keith Roberts there was a separate project at AEC to turbo-charge the AV760, along similar lines that Leyland did with their 0.680, which became the Leyland 690 (fitted to some 2-pedal Beavers) and later the TL11 of course. The TL12 whilst strongly based on the AV760 was a different beast altogether and the Flexitorque version for the T45 Roadtrain was a further development, not so much for power but to give a flatter torque curve and improved fuel economy. When I was at Spillers we had plenty of TL11 powered Buffalos which were far more reliable than the headless wonder, but when we got the first T45s with the TL12 they were much better in all respects. Leyland discontinued the TL12 because the relatively low production numbers made the unit costs higher than using proprietary ■■■■■■■ and Rolls Royce engines. Incidentally, Keith Roberts the former AEC man, also designed the Rolls Royce Eagle, which had a strong resemblence the the AEC 760. The TL12 was built on a new engine line which I think was originally at Southall but was transferred to Leyland after Southall was closed. Just a bit of info about the Leyland headless wonder, the rejection rate off the assembly line was in the region of 35%, it was such a difficult engine to build correctly, even though the design was relatively simple with fewer components than a ‘conventionally’ designed diesel engine. Those were the ones that the QC inspectors caught, most of the others were flawed anyway and it was the engine that went a long way to bankrupting Leyland. I drove a Leyland Lynx with a normally aspirated 500 engine, which always sounded well and pulled like a train, but I was always expecting it to blow up at any minute. It outperformed the contemporary AEC Mercury with AV505 engine which was regarded as the best in its class.
he ramone don,t want to bother you with finnish motors ,but want to proof that i,ll did,nt make it up.cause i,m afully bad whit compu…
can,t put in a link ,but veteranlastbilar.se/historik/finska lastbilar/vanaja ,there are even 2 broshyres that proofs that avt 690 was in finland.
bma.finland:
he ramone don,t want to bother you with finnish motors ,but want to proof that i,ll did,nt make it up.cause i,m afully bad whit compu…
can,t put in a link ,but veteranlastbilar.se/historik/finska lastbilar/vanaja ,there are even 2 broshyres that proofs that avt 690 was in finland.
I believe you bma it just seems a little strange they didnt use the AV760
gingerfold:
Yes, and they stormed along in the Marathon with every bit of that output.
I wonder if AEC and Leyland would have been better off developing the AV760 rather than the headless wonder did the output increase when it became the Flexitorque in the Roadtrain?
Before the TL12 was developed by Keith Roberts there was a separate project at AEC to turbo-charge the AV760, along similar lines that Leyland did with their 0.680, which became the Leyland 690 (fitted to some 2-pedal Beavers) and later the TL11 of course. The TL12 whilst strongly based on the AV760 was a different beast altogether and the Flexitorque version for the T45 Roadtrain was a further development, not so much for power but to give a flatter torque curve and improved fuel economy. When I was at Spillers we had plenty of TL11 powered Buffalos which were far more reliable than the headless wonder, but when we got the first T45s with the TL12 they were much better in all respects. Leyland discontinued the TL12 because the relatively low production numbers made the unit costs higher than using proprietary ■■■■■■■ and Rolls Royce engines. Incidentally, Keith Roberts the former AEC man, also designed the Rolls Royce Eagle, which had a strong resemblence the the AEC 760. The TL12 was built on a new engine line which I think was originally at Southall but was transferred to Leyland after Southall was closed. Just a bit of info about the Leyland headless wonder, the rejection rate off the assembly line was in the region of 35%, it was such a difficult engine to build correctly, even though the design was relatively simple with fewer components than a ‘conventionally’ designed diesel engine. Those were the ones that the QC inspectors caught, most of the others were flawed anyway and it was the engine that went a long way to bankrupting Leyland. I drove a Leyland Lynx with a normally aspirated 500 engine, which always sounded well and pulled like a train, but I was always expecting it to blow up at any minute. It outperformed the contemporary AEC Mercury with AV505 engine which was regarded as the best in its class.
A bit off track here Graham but was there a reason why the AH760 was detuned to 165 bhp max and were there ever any plans to (if possible) build a horizontal TL12 or would that have been too much for Leyland to bear?
bma.finland:
he ramone don,t want to bother you with finnish motors ,but want to proof that i,ll did,nt make it up.cause i,m afully bad whit compu…
can,t put in a link ,but veteranlastbilar.se/historik/finska lastbilar/vanaja ,there are even 2 broshyres that proofs that avt 690 was in finland.
I believe you bma it just seems a little strange they didnt use the AV760
they did on the 11 ergocabs ,but couse of the sweedes they had to compear, and there was this reare atv 690, they had uesed the aec brand since midle of 50 ,s and ohterhand they was a brilliant test tread for AEC ,small market only 5milljon speaks finlandeese, so if it go wrong whit the “new engine” it does,nt disterb marketing, goes well THEN YES FOR BRITAIN, i,ll think it didnt?
(meny aec in vanaja was repleased whit SCANIA DS11 engines,then the finns get the best motor in therys opinion ,scanny+fuller)
bma.finland:
he ramone don,t want to bother you with finnish motors ,but want to proof that i,ll did,nt make it up.cause i,m afully bad whit compu…
can,t put in a link ,but veteranlastbilar.se/historik/finska lastbilar/vanaja ,there are even 2 broshyres that proofs that avt 690 was in finland.
I believe you bma it just seems a little strange they didnt use the AV760
they did on the 11 ergocabs ,but couse of the sweedes they had to compear, and there was this reare atv 690, they had uesed the aec brand since midle of 50 ,s and ohterhand they was a brilliant test tread for AEC ,small market only 5milljon speaks finlandeese, so if it go wrong whit the “new engine” it does,nt disterb marketing, goes well THEN YES FOR BRITAIN, i,ll think it didnt?
(meny aec in vanaja was repleased whit SCANIA DS11 engines,then the finns get the best motor in therys opinion ,scanny+fuller)
You may have changed your mind if they had used the TL12 a few years later
bma.finland:
he ramone don,t want to bother you with finnish motors ,but want to proof that i,ll did,nt make it up.cause i,m afully bad whit compu…
can,t put in a link ,but veteranlastbilar.se/historik/finska lastbilar/vanaja ,there are even 2 broshyres that proofs that avt 690 was in finland.
I believe you bma it just seems a little strange they didnt use the AV760
they did on the 11 ergocabs ,but couse of the sweedes they had to compear, and there was this reare atv 690, they had uesed the aec brand since midle of 50 ,s and ohterhand they was a brilliant test tread for AEC ,small market only 5milljon speaks finlandeese, so if it go wrong whit the “new engine” it does,nt disterb marketing, goes well THEN YES FOR BRITAIN, i,ll think it didnt?
(meny aec in vanaja was repleased whit SCANIA DS11 engines,then the finns get the best motor in therys opinion ,scanny+fuller)
You may have changed your mind if they had used the TL12 a few years later
not in my hand,s to young for vanajas and always a scannyman.but love british mate,s and go,it,s like finnish sisu ,slam the head in the rock PERKELE(nasty word in finnish)
gingerfold:
Yes, and they stormed along in the Marathon with every bit of that output.
I wonder if AEC and Leyland would have been better off developing the AV760 rather than the headless wonder did the output increase when it became the Flexitorque in the Roadtrain?
Before the TL12 was developed by Keith Roberts there was a separate project at AEC to turbo-charge the AV760, along similar lines that Leyland did with their 0.680, which became the Leyland 690 (fitted to some 2-pedal Beavers) and later the TL11 of course. The TL12 whilst strongly based on the AV760 was a different beast altogether and the Flexitorque version for the T45 Roadtrain was a further development, not so much for power but to give a flatter torque curve and improved fuel economy. When I was at Spillers we had plenty of TL11 powered Buffalos which were far more reliable than the headless wonder, but when we got the first T45s with the TL12 they were much better in all respects. Leyland discontinued the TL12 because the relatively low production numbers made the unit costs higher than using proprietary ■■■■■■■ and Rolls Royce engines. Incidentally, Keith Roberts the former AEC man, also designed the Rolls Royce Eagle, which had a strong resemblence the the AEC 760. The TL12 was built on a new engine line which I think was originally at Southall but was transferred to Leyland after Southall was closed. Just a bit of info about the Leyland headless wonder, the rejection rate off the assembly line was in the region of 35%, it was such a difficult engine to build correctly, even though the design was relatively simple with fewer components than a ‘conventionally’ designed diesel engine. Those were the ones that the QC inspectors caught, most of the others were flawed anyway and it was the engine that went a long way to bankrupting Leyland. I drove a Leyland Lynx with a normally aspirated 500 engine, which always sounded well and pulled like a train, but I was always expecting it to blow up at any minute. It outperformed the contemporary AEC Mercury with AV505 engine which was regarded as the best in its class.
A bit off track here Graham but was there a reason why the AH760 was detuned to 165 bhp max and were there ever any plans to (if possible) build a horizontal TL12 or would that have been too much for Leyland to bear?
The AH760 was detuned for the Reliance coach where 165 bhp was considered adequate. At that rating they were completely unstressed and gave high mileages in service. Don’t know about a horizontal version of the TL12, by the time the A760 variants were discontinued the move to vertical engines at the rear of coaches was already underway.
Hiya you AEC nuts…i found this photo on a site. the chap thinks the lorry is a AEC modified cab.
the cab has been fitted onto a mk3 chassis (short one) dose the cab seem to resemble the bob
paul middle east AEC cab…see what you think.this photo belongs to homer simson on flikka.
John
3300John:
Hiya you AEC nuts…i found this photo on a site. the chap thinks the lorry is a AEC modified cab.
the cab has been fitted onto a mk3 chassis (short one) dose the cab seem to resemble the bob
paul middle east AEC cab…see what you think.this photo belongs to homer simson on flikka.
John
You meant HSJ461 –
I know that one - it’s chassis number 3871275 - apparently from 1949 - but has obviously had a fair few mods over the years -
It’s got the 760 engine now too -
3300John:
Hiya you AEC nuts…i found this photo on a site. the chap thinks the lorry is a AEC modified cab.
the cab has been fitted onto a mk3 chassis (short one) dose the cab seem to resemble the bob
paul middle east AEC cab…see what you think.this photo belongs to homer simson on flikka.
John
You meant HSJ461 –
I know that one - it’s chassis number 3871275 - apparently from 1949 - but has obviously had a fair few mods over the years -
It’s got the 760 engine now too -
