[zb]
anorak:gingerfold:
… Donald Stokes was a manager of the old school… He was an autocrat who ordered his subordinates to do exactly what he said, or they were removed form their jobs, and that was very, very obvious from my meeting with him. Charming but ruthless and most definitely not a man to cross or get on the wrong side of…Never put a salesman in charge.
I very nearly put that myself because it is a fact of business.
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^
He just doesn’t get it does he?
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
Earlier, I asked if Mr. Fryars could be persuaded to join this forum. I imagined that he might enjoy answering the respectful questions of curious enthusiasts. Fat chance. He would take one look at this thread, and conclude that it would be like revisiting the frustrations of working under Mr. Stokes, casting pearls to swine at every turn.
[zb]
anorak:gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
Earlier, I asked if Mr. Fryars could be persuaded to join this forum. I imagined that he might enjoy answering the respectful questions of curious enthusiasts. Fat chance. He would take one look at this thread, and conclude that it would be like revisiting the frustrations of working under Mr. Stokes, casting pearls to swine at every turn.
There’s nothing disrespectful in asking the question concerning why anyone would think that ■■■■■■■■ ideas,concerning a short stroke V8,were a good thing.It’s my guess that the answer would prove more embarrassing to the those in question than Stokes’. 
We should start a thread about milk floats, I guarantee the Leatherhead Loon will mention the 3408 or 8v71 before the thread hits page two 
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
Im suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .com 
newmercman:
We should start a thread about milk floats, I guarantee the Leatherhead Loon will mention the 3408 or 8v71 before the thread hits page two
To be fair I also made the comparison with the Scania and Fiat V8’s too but for some reason you’ve chosen to miss that bit.Now I suppose you’re going to support the real loons who think that it was all Stokes’ fault that AEC lost it’s way and that both the Scania and Fiat, which you’ve praised,would have been better if they’d been designed using ■■■■■■■■ and AEC’s ideas on how to make a V8 regards stroke measurements.Rather than what their designers actually decided on.While according to the brains of AEC referred to here the only benefit of using a proper stroke measurement is just supposedly to help emissions with the idea of the link between stroke and torque obviously being a mystery to them. 
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .com
You’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
OK, three points.
1, I was taking the ■■■■.
2, The TL12 was a better engine than anything Rolls Royce produced in the lorry market. The only reasons Rolls Royce engines made it into chassis were political, think BRS and their Crusader, or because they were so heavily subsidised that the likes of the oil companies bought them on price alone.
3, Stokes was a nutcase who is single handedly responsible for the death of the British Truck Manufacturing industry.
Carryfast:
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .comYou’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
Im sure ive read on here somewhere that the eagle was very similar to the AV760 partly due to the chief designer moving from AEC to Rolls Royce ,… but then again i could be wrong i usually am
newmercman:
OK, three points.1, I was taking the ■■■■.
2, The TL12 was a better engine than anything Rolls Royce produced in the lorry market. The only reasons Rolls Royce engines made it into chassis were political,
Unless you know different I don’t remember any 300 + TL12 engines being put in the T45.
If AEC had bypassed the AV760 and gone straight to the TL12 version in the `60s they would have been leaders , if Scania had started with the 420 v8 as its first attempt they would have saved quite a bit of time if the lunatic from Leatherhead would have been born 50 years earlier he could have saved the british commercial vehicle industry single handed , hindsight or ■■■■■■■■ ■■? 
Development on in house engines stopped long before 350hp was the industry standard. Leyland were using ■■■■■■■ and RR engines by then. I would say you can thank Donald for that too.
newmercman:
Development on in house engines stopped long before 350hp was the industry standard. Leyland were using ■■■■■■■ and RR engines by then. I would say you can thank Donald for that too.
The fact is Rolls were able to engineer an engine which would stay together at those type of outputs.Whereas the TL12 wasn’t up to the job as it stood.Not surprising being that AEC’s engineers obviously thought they could reliably boost their short stroke V8 to 350.It doesn’t take a genius to realise the combination of boost levels and/or engine speed it would have taken to make that with a less than 5 inch stroke measurement.I suppose you’re going to blame Stokes for that type of way out thinking too.
ramone:
Carryfast:
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .comYou’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
I
m sure ive read on here somewhere that the eagle was very similar to the AV760 partly due to the chief designer moving from AEC to Rolls Royce ,… but then again i could be wrong i usually am
I’m guessing that this isn’t one of the same ‘designers’ who dream’t up the idea of the short stroke V8.But then I could be wrong.
Carryfast:
ramone:
Carryfast:
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .comYou’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
I
m sure ive read on here somewhere that the eagle was very similar to the AV760 partly due to the chief designer moving from AEC to Rolls Royce ,… but then again i could be wrong i usually amShould’nt you be locked up in your cell,sorry,“secure accomodation”,at this time of night “CF”? Is Matron out on a hen night or what ? Cheers me old mucker! Bewick.
I’m guessing that this isn’t one of the same ‘designers’ who dream’t up the idea of the short stroke V8.But then I could be wrong.
Bewick:
Carryfast:
ramone:
Carryfast:
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .comYou’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
I
m sure ive read on here somewhere that the eagle was very similar to the AV760 partly due to the chief designer moving from AEC to Rolls Royce ,… but then again i could be wrong i usually amShould’nt you be locked up in your cell,sorry,“secure accomodation”,at this time of night “CF”? Is Matron out on a hen night or what ? Cheers me old mucker! Bewick.
I’m guessing that this isn’t one of the same ‘designers’ who dream’t up the idea of the short stroke V8.But then I could be wrong.
I’ve told matron that I’m going to start up AEC again but this time I’m going to do the job properly by making a V8 with the same bore as the Fiat and the stroke of the Vine.Then just use more turbo boost to make up for the torque deficiency.
Carryfast:
Bewick:
Carryfast:
ramone:
Carryfast:
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .comYou’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
I
m sure ive read on here somewhere that the eagle was very similar to the AV760 partly due to the chief designer moving from AEC to Rolls Royce ,… but then again i could be wrong i usually amShould’nt you be locked up in your cell,sorry,“secure accomodation”,at this time of night “CF”? Is Matron out on a hen night or what ? Cheers me old mucker! Bewick.
I’m guessing that this isn’t one of the same ‘designers’ who dream’t up the idea of the short stroke V8.But then I could be wrong.I’ve told matron that I’m going to start up AEC again but this time I’m going to do the job properly by making a V8 with the same bore as the Fiat and the stroke of the Vine.Then just use more turbo boost to make up for the torque deficiency.
So whats happened to all your “slaver” about the DD,been well and truly shot down on that one so moved on to something just a diabolical eh! Eventually you’ll get around to acknowledging how good the Gardner actually was during it’s era of supremacy !! Give him the “shot” Matron,you are allowed to vary the dose occaisionally as per Doctors orders.I’d give him the whole ■■■■■■■ bottle full if I was in charge,he wouldn’t wake up until Monday afternoon all been well Doctor Bewick .
Bewick:
Carryfast:
Bewick:
Carryfast:
ramone:
Carryfast:
ramone:
gingerfold:
[zb]
anorak:
^^^FFS. Near-perfect stupidity.^^^He just doesn’t get it does he?
I
m suprised you both keep fueling his fire , the thing i dont understand is that in one thread the clown is slagging the AV760 and the TL12 , here he`s saying it should have been developed … confused .comYou’ve obviously selectively missed out the reference to the fact that ideally it would have taken a merger between Rolls and AEC to make the TL12 what it ‘would’ have taken to beat it’s opposition.Unlike what ‘actually’ happened in that Rolls managed to make their 6 cylinder motors without the help of AEC anyway and which easily outperformed AEC’s best shot.IE I slagged the thing off ‘because’ it wasn’t developed probably because the development it ‘would have’ taken was beyond AEC’s know how and/or resources.Those resources obviously being a lot less because of all those wasted on the V8.
I
m sure ive read on here somewhere that the eagle was very similar to the AV760 partly due to the chief designer moving from AEC to Rolls Royce ,… but then again i could be wrong i usually amShould’nt you be locked up in your cell,sorry,“secure accomodation”,at this time of night “CF”? Is Matron out on a hen night or what ? Cheers me old mucker! Bewick.
I’m guessing that this isn’t one of the same ‘designers’ who dream’t up the idea of the short stroke V8.But then I could be wrong.I’ve told matron that I’m going to start up AEC again but this time I’m going to do the job properly by making a V8 with the same bore as the Fiat and the stroke of the Vine.Then just use more turbo boost to make up for the torque deficiency.
So whats happened to all your “slaver” about the DD,been well and truly shot down on that one so moved on to something just a diabolical eh! Eventually you’ll get around to acknowledging how good the Gardner actually was during it’s era of supremacy !! Give him the “shot” Matron,you are allowed to vary the dose occaisionally as per Doctors orders.I’d give him the whole [zb] bottle full if I was in charge,he wouldn’t wake up until Monday afternoon all been well
Gardner ‘supremacy’ v AEC V8 built to ‘optimum’ Fiat/■■■■■■■ bore and stroke measurements.I’d guess that the AEC would win.Because although the Gardner probably wouldn’t blow up the AEC would be fast enough to have it’s engine replaced three times during the run but still get there a bit quicker. 
That is total bollox “CF” and you know it,operators required reliability and economy above all else,not unreilability and fuel guzzling that you are promoting,dear oh! dear,when will you accept the brutal economic facts of past life.Where the ■■■■ is Matron ■■ Bewick