Advice sought on the well trodden Canadian path

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS EX-PAT BRITISH TRUCKERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

Thanks in advance to all the information the North American regulars have already posted, some really interesting stuff.

So here’s the thing. I’m 25, i’ve been class 1 since I was 21, I’ve grown up on trucks, and unfortunately the diesel has stuck in the blood. I’ve been lucky on the wagons since I started, having done and continued to do a real variety of work including film facilities, events, fuel tankers (aviation and forecourt), chemicals, low loaders/plant, fridges in and out of Europe, and little bits of antiques/furniture, as well as the general stuff. I’'ve managed to keep towards the higher end of what you can get on the trucks more or less the whole way through, and I know roughly where I would point a newcomer to the UK depending on preference on type of work (nights out / home every night / variety of work / pay levels etc), and I’m hoping somebody on here could help me with similar details in Canada.

I was able to get a 12 month working holiday visa for Canada, and I was hoping it would give me some good flexibility in finding a good job/firm where I can prove myself instead of just finding a company with a spare LMO, I’m hoping I’ve got a bit of scope.

So you gents who are there or have been over, if you could put your best foot forward to begin with, where would you start? Obviously being a bit younger it would be ideal to base in somewhere like Toronto or Vancouver, but like most big cities with high immigration levels, from what I’ve seen on job sites, the rates are relatively poor. Top of the list so far is Edmonton, a decent sized city, its in an LMO area, near the oilfield industry and the numbers seem quite decent at $30/h+, and there seem to be plenty of jobs. As always, the best employers don’t advertise (i.e. Ford fleet, Acumen, Howdens, Charles Russell, Royal Mail. BP, DHL Tankers , TransAm, in the UK), what would the Canadian equivalents be that someone might stand a chance with? Ideally I’d like to find something varied like events, car transporters, heavies or something I haven’t even thought about.

Also, how much would is it likely to cost to self fund a converting my class 1? Is it possible for a UK passport holder to obtain a FAST card, or is the border crossing arduous without one?

I haven’t got any kids, so staying away long term for a month or more would be no problem, particularly on something like exhibitions, or oilfield where its not just running from shed to shed and barely speaking to anyone.

Sorry for all the questions, I’d really appreciate any help and advice anyone might have on setting up out there, and the undoubted long list of issues I’ve overlooked. Thanks a lot in advance

2

Getting a lmia is still very difficult and is going to be your first hurdle. You will have to retake your test here, and your previous experience wont really count. Getting straight onto a high paying number will need luck and contacts. Lots of luck and contacts.
I don’t know what a 12 month working visa is, but does it bypass the need for a work permit?
If it does it wont be hard to find a company to help you through your test in exchange for a years work, which will give you a head start on extending the visa.
You may be better perhaps to go where you can secure pr rather than picking a town you like the sound of, and I dont think AB is the easiest place for pr anymore. All the provinces seem to be tightening up on the pr deal, but SK and MB, or the maritime provinces are the least challenging I believe. ON does not offer pr to drivers, QC is another world ( unless you speak French then it is a different story) AB means relying on company sponsorshipn not a great thing, and I think B.C. is similar
You wont need a fast card, the border is not a big deal at all.

3

His 12 month working holiday visa will remove the need for an LMO/LMIA so in that respect he’ll be able to go where he wants and work for who he wants, while the visa lasts. After that he’s either going back to the UK or trying to get PR via PNP like the rest of us and if thats the aim, choosing carefully to start with would be the order of the day, rather than what sounds good for 12 months on the working holiday visa.

As Dunc says, Alberta is a pain in the arse for PNP so if you intend staying beyond the year, I wouldn’t bother to be honest. Ideally you want to be somewhere that will allow you to apply for PNP after six months (Manitoba?) and then if you end up liking it here, you’re in the system. Some provinces are 12 months now which would leave you unable to apply while on your initial visa and would entirely depend on being able to find a company that can obtain an LMO/LMIA and that would be a very tall order these days and quite a precarious thing to be doing.

As for experience in the UK/Europe. It will count in Canada as far as insurance requirements are concerned but apart from that, most places won’t be bothered if you’ve driven to China and back, they’re only interested in meat in the seat to keep that 90% driver turnover ticking over. Your 12 month working holiday visa will allow you to side step those sorts of firms, but be aware that it may be through those sorts of firms only that you’ll ultimately be able to apply for and get PNP/PR if you’re unable to sort it in time at the firm you choose initially.

4

Is there anything stopping a foreigner from coming to Canada on holiday and taking the Canadian truck licence tests? Presumably with the licence obtained it would be easier to find trucking firms willing to take you on.

Are there restrictions or rules on who can take the test? Is there a minimum experience rule, time limits etc? How long a holiday would it take to fit everything in, assuming it is feasible?

5

ORC:
Is there anything stopping a foreigner from coming to Canada on holiday and taking the Canadian truck licence tests? Presumably with the licence obtained it would be easier to find trucking firms willing to take you on.

Are there restrictions or rules on who can take the test? Is there a minimum experience rule, time limits etc? How long a holiday would it take to fit everything in, assuming it is feasible?

No reason why you can’t take the test but you need a Canadian address for your licence.
Unless you are a PR or Citizen, or have an IEC visa, you would need a company with LMIA’s available and the few that have been advertised recently are for driver’s already living in Canada.

6

neilg14:
Unless you are a PR or Citizen, or have an IEC visa, you would need a company with LMIA’s available and the few that have been advertised recently are for driver’s already living in Canada.

This is the point, though. Because companies are using LMIAs to poach drivers from each other within Canada, it makes it more difficult for outsiders to break into the system.

I presume one of the main reasons they’re poaching drivers internally is because it saves the bother of getting them licenced up and funding their flights, so I’ll get all that done myself. My thinking is that if I self fund the licence then I’m effectively ready to roll just as a TFW already in Canada is. If I can then find a company with LMIAs that will take me on (with licence in hand) then I can get the working visa and crack on. As soon as I am able to apply for PR I can get in the queue and hopefully the transition will eventually work itself out.

I have a friend in Winnipeg so I’m sure the Canadian address won’t be a problem, it is simply a question of whether I am allowed to take the tests as a foreigner, what restrictions there are on required experience, how much time I need to get off work to do it and so on. So assuming it is feasible, any tips on practicalities would be appreciated.

7

The companies are not poaching drivers, they’re offering them to driver’s, that have expired WP’s and the company that they’re now working for, can’t/won’t be getting any more LMIA’s, leaving the driver’s in limbo.
This is giving those driver’s another chance to get PR before their 4yrs is up and they have to leave Canada.
Also, the driver’s here already have experience so just need to do the orientation and they’re away.
What you’re trying to is not impossible by any means but you’ll be bottom of the pecking order.

8

One of the last Brits to get an LMO under the old scheme came a cropper when he found that he had to wait 14 days after he did the written exam for his driving licence before he could take the practical test. This was something new here in Manitoba and he was the first to run up against this problem. So this will slow up the time from when you land to when you can start earning.

I think a lot of companies will soon have to bite the bullet and start apply for LMIAs; the driver shortage is still there. Where I work, they doubled the size of the fleet last month when they bought 5 new trucks. They took on 5 new drivers and gave them new trucks; two have left already. There are another 5 trucks coming at the end of June and another 5 in August; so we will be up to 20 trucks [again]. The boss asked me if I could refer any drivers and I said there were plenty in Britain who would like to come over but what about the LMIA situation? He doesn’t know much about it but I said the most the company could have was two drivers on TWPs. I don’t know if there is anybody already working there with a TWP but there might be a chance of a job if the boss can organise the LMIA.

The company name is Flying Eagle and they are based in Niverville, just south of Winnipeg. It’s not the best job in the world and would be more suitable for a single guy as there is a lot of nights-out and not really enough pay to raise a family. For anyone coming over on a recce trip it might be worth calling in and seeing them. For an idea of the kind of work they do; you can read my blog. Just google Roadtrip Chris Arbon.

9

ChrisArbon:
One of the last Brits to get an LMO under the old scheme came a cropper when he found that he had to wait 14 days after he did the written exam for his driving licence before he could take the practical test. This was something new here in Manitoba and he was the first to run up against this problem. So this will slow up the time from when you land to when you can start earning.

I think a lot of companies will soon have to bite the bullet and start apply for LMIAs; the driver shortage is still there. Where I work, they doubled the size of the fleet last month when they bought 5 new trucks. They took on 5 new drivers and gave them new trucks; two have left already. There are another 5 trucks coming at the end of June and another 5 in August; so we will be up to 20 trucks [again]. The boss asked me if I could refer any drivers and I said there were plenty in Britain who would like to come over but what about the LMIA situation? He doesn’t know much about it but I said the most the company could have was two drivers on TWPs. I don’t know if there is anybody already working there with a TWP but there might be a chance of a job if the boss can organise the LMIA.

The company name is Flying Eagle and they are based in Niverville, just south of Winnipeg. It’s not the best job in the world and would be more suitable for a single guy as there is a lot of nights-out and not really enough pay to raise a family. For anyone coming over on a recce trip it might be worth calling in and seeing them. For an idea of the kind of work they do; you can read my blog. Just google Roadtrip Chris Arbon.

Chris your last paragraph on pay sounds like it will be a stumbling block for your company on getting any LMIA’s.
The companies now have to fulfill very strict criteria and another reason why so many have backed out of or been refused LMIA’s.
I know of 2 companies in Calgary that got refused because they couldn’t match the wage structure set out.
This I read from drivers that were supposed to be joining these companies got emails just before they were ready to fly out, cancelling them.

10

neilg14:

ChrisArbon:
One of the last Brits to get an LMO under the old scheme came a cropper when he found that he had to wait 14 days after he did the written exam for his driving licence before he could take the practical test. This was something new here in Manitoba and he was the first to run up against this problem. So this will slow up the time from when you land to when you can start earning.

I think a lot of companies will soon have to bite the bullet and start apply for LMIAs; the driver shortage is still there. Where I work, they doubled the size of the fleet last month when they bought 5 new trucks. They took on 5 new drivers and gave them new trucks; two have left already. There are another 5 trucks coming at the end of June and another 5 in August; so we will be up to 20 trucks [again]. The boss asked me if I could refer any drivers and I said there were plenty in Britain who would like to come over but what about the LMIA situation? He doesn’t know much about it but I said the most the company could have was two drivers on TWPs. I don’t know if there is anybody already working there with a TWP but there might be a chance of a job if the boss can organise the LMIA.

The company name is Flying Eagle and they are based in Niverville, just south of Winnipeg. It’s not the best job in the world and would be more suitable for a single guy as there is a lot of nights-out and not really enough pay to raise a family. For anyone coming over on a recce trip it might be worth calling in and seeing them. For an idea of the kind of work they do; you can read my blog. Just google Roadtrip Chris Arbon.

Chris your last paragraph on pay sounds like it will be a stumbling block for your company on getting any LMIA’s.
The companies now have to fulfill very strict criteria and another reason why so many have backed out of or been refused LMIA’s.
I know of 2 companies in Calgary that got refused because they couldn’t match the wage structure set out.
This I read from drivers that were supposed to be joining these companies got emails just before they were ready to fly out, cancelling them.

The pay is 40 cents a mile which is about the norm for van work. You are expected to do 70 hours work, reset 36 hours and go again. 3000 miles a week, 6000 miles @ 40c gives $2400 on a bi-weekly pay slip; take home $1750 after stoppages. What would be the wage structure that they want?

11

ORC:

neilg14:
Unless you are a PR or Citizen, or have an IEC visa, you would need a company with LMIA’s available and the few that have been advertised recently are for driver’s already living in Canada.

This is the point, though. Because companies are using LMIAs to poach drivers from each other within Canada, it makes it more difficult for outsiders to break into the system.

I presume one of the main reasons they’re poaching drivers internally is because it saves the bother of getting them licenced up and funding their flights, so I’ll get all that done myself. My thinking is that if I self fund the licence then I’m effectively ready to roll just as a TFW already in Canada is. If I can then find a company with LMIAs that will take me on (with licence in hand) then I can get the working visa and crack on. As soon as I am able to apply for PR I can get in the queue and hopefully the transition will eventually work itself out.

I have a friend in Winnipeg so I’m sure the Canadian address won’t be a problem, it is simply a question of whether I am allowed to take the tests as a foreigner, what restrictions there are on required experience, how much time I need to get off work to do it and so on. So assuming it is feasible, any tips on practicalities would be appreciated.

The new rules and costs of applying for lmia’s means a lot of companies wont be bothering to stay in the system. As has been explained, its not a question of poaching drivers, if you work for a company that cant renew your work permit you may see the outfit offering you an lmia as a lifesaver rather than a poacher.
It is different working over here. Even the most organised and prepared person will find its a shock, and most of the new arrivals are not prepared so well. Fact is, not that many last very long. Its not a question of failure or anything like it; you have to experience it to see if you like it and theres only one way to do that. So its quite understandable really that a company would want a driver used to the system than the gamble of importing and training one. Its not a personal thing its just business.
One of the problems with the new system is that since drivers are classed as unskilled workers there are limits on how many temporary foreign workers a company can have. In the Maritimes the average over the road drivers income is accepted to be above the provincial average so the percentage restriction of twp holders does not apply to long haul companies. In the more affluent provinces the average annual drivers income very likely wont get over the bar so the restriction applies, which is bad news for everyone. Only one thing is certain, by next year the situation will have changed again. For better or for worse is anyones guess though.
But in answer to your question on getting a license over here, I think it would be quite possible. It would be a bit of an exercise in arranging it, but you could study for air brakes and the highway code test online easily enough you just need someone to lend you a truck!
There will be companies that would hire you if you had the license in hand and you were in the country already, the address thing is important but easy enough to arrange.
For my money, if you really want to make it happen i am certain you could, but it will cost you a good bit of time money and effort.

12

ChrisArbon:

neilg14:

ChrisArbon:
One of the last Brits to get an LMO under the old scheme came a cropper when he found that he had to wait 14 days after he did the written exam for his driving licence before he could take the practical test. This was something new here in Manitoba and he was the first to run up against this problem. So this will slow up the time from when you land to when you can start earning.

I think a lot of companies will soon have to bite the bullet and start apply for LMIAs; the driver shortage is still there. Where I work, they doubled the size of the fleet last month when they bought 5 new trucks. They took on 5 new drivers and gave them new trucks; two have left already. There are another 5 trucks coming at the end of June and another 5 in August; so we will be up to 20 trucks [again]. The boss asked me if I could refer any drivers and I said there were plenty in Britain who would like to come over but what about the LMIA situation? He doesn’t know much about it but I said the most the company could have was two drivers on TWPs. I don’t know if there is anybody already working there with a TWP but there might be a chance of a job if the boss can organise the LMIA.

The company name is Flying Eagle and they are based in Niverville, just south of Winnipeg. It’s not the best job in the world and would be more suitable for a single guy as there is a lot of nights-out and not really enough pay to raise a family. For anyone coming over on a recce trip it might be worth calling in and seeing them. For an idea of the kind of work they do; you can read my blog. Just google Roadtrip Chris Arbon.

Chris your last paragraph on pay sounds like it will be a stumbling block for your company on getting any LMIA’s.
The companies now have to fulfill very strict criteria and another reason why so many have backed out of or been refused LMIA’s.
I know of 2 companies in Calgary that got refused because they couldn’t match the wage structure set out.
This I read from drivers that were supposed to be joining these companies got emails just before they were ready to fly out, cancelling them.

The pay is 40 cents a mile which is about the norm for van work. You are expected to do 70 hours work, reset 36 hours and go again. 3000 miles a week, 6000 miles @ 40c gives $2400 on a bi-weekly pay slip; take home $1750 after stoppages. What would be the wage structure that they want?

One of the companies, I know a little about, I know some of the drivers, they’re on .42cpm, California and back once a week, but the average wage in AB is probably higher than MB so can’t compare like for like. Each province has a different average wage.
Apparently there’s a complicated formula for working out if the wage paid is high enough or not because of the way long haul is paid, eg. mileage, border crossings, meat inspects, tarping, holiday pay, etc. instead of a straightforward hourly + overtime rate.

13

I thought you chaps out west were supposed to be on big money compared to us poor Maritime dwellers? I’m on 42cpm in NB, $20 for every pick and drop and when I’m doing plants and flowers I get $2.50 for every rack I bring back. This week I’ll earn $340 in racks alone, $280 in picks and drops and just over $1000 in mileage. I worked five days and was home two nights during the week. Not all weeks are so good, some are better but 40cpm for somewhere like Winnipeg and the surrounding area doesn’t seem much when you compare house prices there to here for example. Then you have Alberta with house prices double or triple the price of New Brunswick and only a few cents per mile more?
Yes there are terrible jobs here as well but judging from many posts on here and elsewhere, the likes of H&R and B&D Walter seem every bit as bad as their Maritime equivalents, and they’re in the land of milk and honey. As things stand now, I think NB is a pretty darned good place to be a truck driver, we have some of the lowest house prices, car insurance etc etc etc anywhere in Canada, and now have wages that match and sometimes beat those of Ontario and Manitoba and are not far behind Alberta. New Brunswick cannot compete on hourly paid local work, that’s for sure, but on mileage based work with the cost of things being what they are here I don’t think we do bad at all.

14

Jesus Jordan, your job isn’t as bad as you had painted it in the past, maybe Wayne who lives in the same town as you should come and work with you ? He is not happy with his company :laughing:

15

I’ve never met Wayne in person but he’s now on my facebook. He works at the company that I did prior to this job and its by far from the worst company in the area, in fact I’d say its the best for proper long haul work as its mostly no hassle dry van work but its on a quite low mileage rate compared to many other companies in the area now. Its a good job for adventure but no good whatsoever for anyone who wants to be at home and lead a life outside of work. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there but I enjoy time at home with my wife more so I made the move. My bad experiences in Canada are mainly with my first employer with which I had to stay until I got PR and unfortunately there are quite a few of their ilk about, all across Canada and they tend to be the firms taking in foreign drivers with all sorts of promises and lies and then deliver nothing but grief. My current firm is certainly not like that, nor is the firm Wayne works for. You’ll be away a lot with them but you’ll be moving a lot as well, rather than sitting for free at every stop and turn.
In the past year a lot of the firms have upped the wages here, probably at least partly due to the driver shortage caused by the sudden halt put to the revolving door of foreigners. Like I say, my lot pay 42cpm and Connors Transfer who are based in Stellarton, Nova Scotia and have a yard and office here in Woodstock now pay 45cpm, but its reefer work with all the nonsense that includes. When I first came here in 2009 some of the crap firms were paying 30cpm and some desperadoes still advertise 32cpm but they’re living in the past and can’t get anybody to do it and will hopefully die out soon.
I don’t like how drivers already in Canada are being given the boot once they’re here and have made a life changing move to get here but the huge decrease in new arrivals has done a lot of good for the terms and conditions in NB at least and its just what the industry needed as far as drivers are concerned. Its gone a long way to achieving a break in the chain of the constant revolving door that companies operate here with by treating their staff like crap and getting in another Brit, German, Russian or Romanian to do the same crap job for a while before they in turn leave. Companies are now having to think twice about how they operate and I for one am glad of that. Many of the jobs here were not fit for purpose a year or so ago, and some still aren’t but things are certainly changing.

16

What’s the nonsense with a reefer? It’s just a box with a diesel tank and buttons to set, isn’t it? Oh, and a noisy kip parking up overnight… :slight_smile:

This all seems a bit bizarre to me. Canada needs drivers, I’m a driver who wants to come to Canada, I have no family and am happy with the idea of tramping for weeks on end. I’m not overly bothered about the wages as long as they’re reasonable and pay enough to live on, and I’d even be prepared to come to a deal with a good company to cover their costs for the additional bureaucracy of taking on a foreigner. And despite this it is still nigh on impossible to find a straight route in.

17

ORC:
What’s the nonsense with a reefer? It’s just a box with a diesel tank and buttons to set, isn’t it? Oh, and a noisy kip parking up overnight… :slight_smile:

This all seems a bit bizarre to me. Canada needs drivers, I’m a driver who wants to come to Canada, I have no family and am happy with the idea of tramping for weeks on end. I’m not overly bothered about the wages as long as they’re reasonable and pay enough to live on, and I’d even be prepared to come to a deal with a good company to cover their costs for the additional bureaucracy of taking on a foreigner. And despite this it is still nigh on impossible to find a straight route in.

Its not the reefer thats the problem its the type of work they do, the times of delivery and pick up and the type of outfits that run them. Do a search of robinhoods posts and you’ll get the idea. I wouldn’t want to do it personally.

18

We use Blue Beacon washes and I see reefers lined up waiting to be washed out, I couldn’t stand that crap.

19

Pat Hasler:
We use Blue Beacon washes and I see reefers lined up waiting to be washed out, I couldn’t stand that crap.

Yeah, then they’ll be going round to park up for 24 hours waiting for a reload or popping off to some horrendous union run port or warehouse to sit on a bay for 12 hours to then drive 10 hours overnight to spend the rest of the next day tipping. All of this waiting will be for free or some pathetic small sum that might support a Bangladeshi but certainly won’t provide for a life in Canada.

ORC, what you want will be more easily obtained by nipping over to Bulgaria and gaining employment with Somat (Willi Betz). Then you really can enthusiastically accept a rubbish job regardless of reality, live in the cab for weeks and months on end and have a bit of adventure and you won’t even need a work permit. Why go to the bother of moving to Canada if you don’t actually want a job and life worthy of the first world when you can have the same much closer to home.

20

ORC:
What’s the nonsense with a reefer? It’s just a box with a diesel tank and buttons to set, isn’t it? Oh, and a noisy kip parking up overnight… :slight_smile:

This all seems a bit bizarre to me. Canada needs drivers, I’m a driver who wants to come to Canada, I have no family and am happy with the idea of tramping for weeks on end. I’m not overly bothered about the wages as long as they’re reasonable and pay enough to live on, and I’d even be prepared to come to a deal with a good company to cover their costs for the additional bureaucracy of taking on a foreigner. And despite this it is still nigh on impossible to find a straight route in.

This makes me want to barf.