Advice reqd--weekly rest issue with company

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

hello everyone

i work for a bread company in N.W. england,been there over 1.5 years and recently things have got very messy when it comes rota time for fixed route drivers and the relief drivers who cover their rest periods/holidays/sickies…we work mon-sat only,with every sunday off.

so we have 11 fixed routes and 4 relief drivers,who take turns in covering accordingly.

the major issues started when the 1 spare ie.16th man quit…you see the boss refuses to replace him and put anyone in place to unload trunkers or cover training new drivers/hols/sickies etc…the 4 reliefs are taking all the ■■■■ except the unloading trunkers part.

the 11 fixed route guys always get their rest days as per cycle…2 off mon/tue,2 off wed/thu,2 off fri/sat,whilst other 5 guys are 6 day working week,following week it reverses to 6 ons for 1st six runs and 5 offs to meet regulations…with me so far…every second week…cycle jumps 2 days…basically in a fortnight everyone fixed route gets a block of 2 offs together plus the sunday,everyone happy and legal.

now, it worked the same for reliefs until 16th man quit,as it was the start of holiday booking madness ie june-nov requests as well as the revolving door of guys jacking in and major problems in recruiting new drivers.

manager pipes up that as we could be working 12 from 14 days and he says we are paid for our rest days,that he owns them and can give us only 1 off if he likes for needs of the business etc…we are salaried but other than 12 from 14 it says nothing about hourly rate/overtime rate/how many hours per week expected…it is vague and open as fu_k in their favour…we cannot get same answer twice in response…i been told from guy who left that salary based on 46hr week excluding breaks…yet boss said once that its for 6x8hrs days (week) excluding tacho breaks which dont count/unpaid…

the following is what the 4 reliefs have had off over the last 9 weeks…i will list as case A,case B,case C,and caseD…tell me which ones you think do not meet requirement…p.s.nobody drives over 5.5 hrs per day and total shift doesnt exceed 8.5 hrs for anyone…some are 6.5hrs all in per day…start times are 2.30am monday-sat.

WK1 WK2 WK3 WK4 WK5 WK6 WK7 WK8 WK9
case A <45 <45 <45 HOLS <45 >45 <45 <45 <45

case B >45 <45 >45 <45 >45 <45 <45 <45 >45

case C >45 <45 >45 <45 hols hols <45 >45 <45

case D >45 <45 >45 <45 >45 <45 >45 >45 >45

in my opinion both A and B are illegal but A more so…i have been forced to give up 1 of midweek rest for O.T as others have also,we keep telling him that only 2 days each week we have all 4 available at same time and if only covering 2 guys rest periods thats fine but when hols/sickies pop up then 3 covers is max we can do without losing our rests…he doesnt give a fu-k and only wants routes done…that means forced O.T and ■■■■■■ off reliefs…he is the HR depertment also,and his boss/buddy (seen him 2 times at our depot in 1.5years) shirks anything to do with wages/pensions questions and he also regurgitates all in detail if people enquire…creating bad blood…you cant win…plus my boss is the O licence holder for all branches…they both said within last 8 weeks that 12 workable shifts on the bounce was max before 2 days off together minimum…yet 2 weeks later same boss said that was at his discretion/he owns them and us…contradicting himself and his boss’s words…our heads are scrambled with mixed messages and withheld info…

if take him on i will be alone and job would be more dire and untennable after that meeting…wouldnt benefit me but i cant stand the bloody place anymore and want get him busted for other infringements i know about as well as hopefully these forced violations occurring with our rest periods…

p.s. he doesnt honour holidays,we were allowed 2 drivers off per week on holiday, but now 1 is max, due to cover issue,he brings guys in off their holidays if short,he makes you lose a bank holiday if it falls on your weekly rest day,as your off already you lose the B.Hol…

i dont know if what he is doing in all cases is legal/illegal/or grey area…can you guys ,help clear some of above queries?

2

I’m a little confused because at one point you say you have every Sunday off but then later talk about doing 12 consecutive shifts before having 2 days of :confused:

I assume you’re not working in-scope of EU regulations ?

3

what i meant by the 12 workable days in a row is…
say wk1 you off mon and tue,then 4 on,sun off,6 on,sun off,2 on before next 2 rest…so 12/12 workable days on bounce.

p.s. spoke to boss today and he said that due to us working 8.5hr days max and driving time is less than 50hrs over 2 weeks,that he doesnt have to give 45hrs up weekly rest or equivalent of over 2 fixed weeks…he can have us working 6 days every week if he wants with only sun days off…

i thought that your length of working day or what actual drive time combined you did, had nothing to do with what weekly rest you are due over 2 fixed week period.

he said that 2 weeks together can be both under 45 hr rest…

4

stain:
p.s. spoke to boss today and he said that due to us working 8.5hr days max and driving time is less than 50hrs over 2 weeks,that he doesnt have to give 45hrs up weekly rest or equivalent of over 2 fixed weeks…he can have us working 6 days every week if he wants with only sun days off…

Assuming you drive in-scope of EU regulations your boss is an idiot, you need a regular 45 hours weekly rest period at-least every second week.

If you’re not in-scope of EU regulations he’s right but he still sound like a complete idiot.

stain:
i thought that your length of working day or what actual drive time combined you did, had nothing to do with what weekly rest you are due over 2 fixed week period.

Assuming you’re in-scope of EU regulations you’re right and your boss is an idiot.

stain:
he said that 2 weeks together can be both under 45 hr rest…

It is possible in certain circumstances to have 2 reduced weekly rest periods in 2 weeks and still be compliant with the EU drivers regulations but it cannot be done on a regular basis, if he thinks you can do that he’s an idiot.

5

how to know if company is in scope of EU regs or not then?
would you guess/assume we are or are not…given nature of business?

p.s. i will post tmrrw actual weekly rest recd…rather than <45 or >45…may be easier…as no replies to the A,B,C,D, scenarios in opening post…

thanks so far tacho

6

Are the vehicles over 3.5t gross weight ?

7

7.5T IVECO EUROCARGO

8

here is breakdown of how rota went.

mon-sun W W W W W W R

mon-sun W W W W W W R (WED/THU REST GOT CANCELLED)

mon-sun W R W W W W R (MON WAS REST BUT MADE DO OVERTIME)

mon-sun H H H H H R R

mon-sun W W W W W W R

mon-sun R R W W W W R

mon-sun W W W W W W R

mon-sun W W R R W W R (THEY WANTED ME DO OVERTIME WED,…I REFUSED) CURRENT WEEK NOW

mon-sun W W W W W W R

9

stain:
here is breakdown of how rota went.

mon-sun W W W W W W R

mon-sun W W W W W W R (WED/THU REST GOT CANCELLED)

mon-sun W R W W W W R (MON WAS REST BUT MADE DO OVERTIME)

mon-sun H H H H H R R

mon-sun W W W W W W R

mon-sun R R W W W W R

mon-sun W W W W W W R

mon-sun W W R R W W R (THEY WANTED ME DO OVERTIME WED,…I REFUSED) CURRENT WEEK NOW

mon-sun W W W W W W R

If under EU regs then where is the 45 hour rest for the first week :question:

10

stain:
7.5T IVECO EUROCARGO

Delivering bread in a 7.5t vehicle I believe you’re on EU regulations, I’m not aware of any exemptions that would exclude your job from EU regulations.

stain:
Week 1 - mon-sun W W W W W W R
?

Week 2 - mon-sun W W W W W W R (WED/THU REST GOT CANCELLED)
(Reduced weekly rest period)

Week 3 - mon-sun W R W W W W R (MON WAS REST BUT MADE DO OVERTIME)
(Together with the first Monday of your holiday this was a regular weekly rest period)

Week 4 - mon-sun H H H H H R R
(The last 45 hours of the holiday counts as a regular weekly rest period for week 5)

Week 5 - mon-sun W W W W W W R
(Regular weekly rest period)

Week 6 - mon-sun R R W W W W R
(Regular weekly rest period)

mon-sun W W W W W W R
(Reduced weekly rest period)

mon-sun W W R R W W R (THEY WANTED ME DO OVERTIME WED,…I REFUSED) CURRENT WEEK NOW
(Regular weekly rest period, you was right not to work Wednesday)

mon-sun W W W W W W R
(A reduced weekly rest period is OK for this week)

You had a reduced weekly rest period at the end of week 1 but without knowing what weekly rest period you had at the weekend at the start of week 1 I can’t say if it’s legal or not, but everything else looks OK.

You need to pay back the compensation for reduced weekly rest periods by the end of the third week following the week in which you had the reduced weekly rest period, the compensation has to be paid back in one lump but with the hours you work I would think that’s probably not a problem.

11

i was on holiday whole week prior to wk 1.

12

stain:
i was on holiday whole week prior to wk 1.

Then it is all legal :smiley: because the last 45 hours of the holls is the regular rest for week 1

13

so basically all 9 i posted were above board but if i wasnt off wed on wk 8 then it wouldnt have been…correct?

14

stain:
so basically all 9 i posted were above board but if i wasnt off wed on wk 8 then it wouldnt have been…correct?

correct