I was recently driving out of London on a two lane road, came to a set of traffic lights with a crossroad and yellow box junction. I continued to wait here for 5 changes of lights every time wait for a large space to clear traffic off other junctions an the offside lane filled the spaces in the road ahead in both lanes. I ended up pretty much having to force my way across and blocking abit of the junction. I was in a artic with a 15.10 trailer what should I have done? Surely I can’t be expected to wait for rush hour to end to go? Thanks
Hope you’re gaffer don’t see this and sack you for wasting time
You have to use your discretion, as you did. Make every effort to comply. Then if you can’t comply and it doesn’t look like you are going to be able to you just get across as safely as possible. Just watch there is no camera on the junction!
My colleague had something similar on a cat D driving test, traffic was backed up and he was stuck at traffic lights. After about 5 minutes, while lights were on red, there was a small gap and the examiner said “You will need to ignore the red light and proceed”. (He passed, and in fact his test was very easy as a result - he simply had to drive through Carlisle on the A7 and A6 and then back on the M6, there was no time for any of the hard bits!)
The junctions I passed had cameras on I’m worried I’ll receive a fine, long time since I’ve driven and I was very cautious that’s why I waited so long, had to go when I received the horn off others behind me.so basically I’m ok to block it a bit long as I look to have tried clear it without obstructing ? That right?
Sometimes you make every effort to do it ‘right’ and it still goes wrong. Just do your best!
Red light cameras are ok as they will only trigger of it detects motion. The problem with some London boroughs is they have remote cctv with operators raking in thousands.
So what should I have done? Surely this is unfair? I can’t see any other way than go cross when light change an hope to get cross as much as possible
In this situation some new drivers (and some very experienced drivers including me) can under-estimate the available gap. In other words, sometimes we hold back when there actually is space to go.
It’s a tricky situation and, although I cant encourage anyone to break the rules, I fully understand how this happens.
With luck, you’ll have forgotten to put the trailer plate on so they cant send you a ticket!
Pete 
When going to London flip the plate off the trailer, I used to carry a Dutch plate for the odd occasions I was down that way, never got tugged or a ticket but always seemed to realise my proper plate wasn’t on just as I hit the big straight bits coming out again 
When you talk about a space being there how much do you actually mean? Would you go over if only one car space is available? Thanks for the replies
Would you go over if only one car space is available?
NO. Your artic 16.5m long. Average car 5m long. So where exactly are you planning to put the other 11.5m? And even this assumes no gap between your front bumper and the rear bumper of the vehicle in front! Don’t think you were taught that was acceptable??
IMO I would want to leave no more than a metre or so in the box - and then only if I was pushed into it because of the volume of traffic. Even then, it’s wrong.
Good discussion though.
Pete
Judging the distance the other side is certainly hard and I’m still practising this. But the worst is when you can’t even see the end of the box. This is one of the notorious spots (known as the fail-zone) on one of the test routes up here
You simply can’t see that you have 16.5 meters spare until you are committed (and then blocking a pedestrian crossing so waiting in hold back position not really an option) and you are also contending with the bus starting a drag race next to you and keeping the trailer in the correct lane. Fun! Before the Nationwide changed their advertising you could look through on approach and in certain light conditions reflections in the shop windows help you judge this, but you can’t bank on this.
So it becomes cross fingers and go.
Then that just takes me back to square one I’m afraid!! You can’t go till you have space but soon as there is space for a car it’s filled! So legally what should I do? I know waiting there I wouldn’t have got a gap big enough for sure
If I’m sat in inside lane waiting for a gap of 15m+ cars from each direction will fill the gap an also cars on my offside cutting over to the inside as they cross the box. It’s impossible to create a gap do big in London at rush hour.is like to know how other drivers deal with this cos sitting waiting wouldn’t didn’t help. I’ve just had a quick google check on it. It says it’s not an offence to sit in a box junction an block the road it is only an offence if you enter the box if the exit isn’t clear, so how much space is determined, clear , I wouldn’t say a car length!! What do the tfl expect hgvs to do ?
Clear means your whole vehicle has left the box. BUT The situation you describe sounds like the traffic is moving the other side. That is part of the decision process. Otherwise cars could not be filling the gap.
If you judge that by the time you get there you will have cleared it then you should go.
No one can advise you to routinely break the law; you have to work out if you are going to be able to keep it compliant without waiting an age and make your decision. Your original instinct to wait was the correct legal decision. Eventually you got bored and went. That was probably the right thing to do in tricky circumstances
If I hadn’t have gone I wouldn’t have got out, traffic was moving so soon as lights changed I went, it moved maybe 2-3 cars down then lights changed. Leaving me half on /off. I’m expecting a ticket to be honest
bigcheese:
If I hadn’t have gone I wouldn’t have got out, traffic was moving so soon as lights changed I went, it moved maybe 2-3 cars down then lights changed. Leaving me half on /off. I’m expecting a ticket to be honest
Not all of them flash for box junction offences, you will have cleared the stop line while on green so I would stop worrying mate
It wasn’t a red light camera, bloody signs for CCTV everywhere tho an I’ve read that’s how they enforce it. Oh well I tried my best to not block the junction an that will be seen so if I get a ticket surely I’ve got good grounds for appeal
I’ve always gone on the theory that if my wheels are turning, albeit very very slowly, then I haven’t ‘stopped’ in the box. This usually gives enough time for the lights to change. It’s not ideal but like you say, you can’t wait all day.
In my book you did the right thing, you waited patiently as long as could be classed as reasonable and then you had to be more aggressive or get nowhere. London is a slightly different planet in its own right. It’s a nightmare, if the box junction cameras don’t get you, or the CC charge or the pollution control or the CCTV network which is being used by councils to increase revenue by fining anyone and everyone they can spot on their monitors, someone will get you. Your firm will allow for a certain number of fines per month if they work in London regularly, just do your best to keep them down. Talk to your TM, see what the attitude is and also who pays the fines! They might say deadlines are more important than fines, or he might say wait for the space even if you’re stuck for an hour cause you’re going to be expected to pay the fine yourself…