I recently made comment about Advantage Training in another post.
I had a little rant (rightly or wrongly) about various matters including their slow payment record to us.
The post was brought to the attention of Advantage Training and this led to an intelligent conversation between us. (Top dog to top dog) The outcome is the agreement of new terms. Indeed, they have kept their word having paid us today for work we are doing just before Christmas.
I am known for my strong views on how trainees should select their trainer - and this doesn’t generally include the use of brokers. However, there will always be a number of people who are persuaded by the websites and offerings of brokers. There is no doubt that some brokers are total cowboys - out there to collect as much money as possible before closing down and clearing off with the cash. It has to be said that Advantage have been trading for six years and are still here. Some very small trainers are unable to offer the full service that is offered by the larger trainers such as ourselves. Maybe this is where the broker may score. ie the broker deals with the theory tests, etc and arranges the training with a small trainer who, in turn, has no admin or advertising costs.
Many trainers accept work from brokers to fill in gaps in their schedule. At least I can be happy in the knowledge that people choosing to book through Advantage within our catchment and sent to us will receive high quality training.
Peter Smythe:
Many trainers accept work from brokers to fill in gaps in their schedule.
Maybe my logic is flawed but those trainees who used those brokers would still be there if they did not use them and so would still fill those gaps and get more for their money - yes?
I also imagine that the schools would make an extra days profit if those trainees booked direct?
Courses cost £200 per day
Each trainee pays £1,000
Broker wants their cut which might be £200
Training slots = 100
Number of trainees = 100
Senario 1
70 book direct with school = 5 day courses
30 book via brokers = 4 day courses
100 slots filled
Senario 2
100 book direct = 5 day courses
0 book via brokers
100 slots filled
I am really well known in this industry for being 100% honest and upfront. That means accepting that I have stumbled accross this one broker that doesn’t make it’s mission to steal from trainees. I feel I must speak honestly as I find.
Peter Smythe:
I am really well known in this industry for being 100% honest and upfront. That means accepting that I have stumbled accross this one broker that doesn’t make it’s mission to steal from trainees.
Maybe not stealing but are they duping the trainees into paying for something they do not need?
ive just finished my training with advantage hgv , if anyone has any questions just pm me and i will spill the beans , the truth is there are good things they do and some really really bad things !!
craigiej:
ive just finished my training with advantage hgv , if anyone has any questions just pm me and i will spill the beans , the truth is there are good things they do and some really really bad things !!
how many hours/days training for how much money? - how did that compare with going direct?
Peter Smythe:
I recently made comment about Advantage Training in another post.
I had a little rant (rightly or wrongly) about various matters including their slow payment record to us.
The post was brought to the attention of Advantage Training and this led to an intelligent conversation between us. (Top dog to top dog) The outcome is the agreement of new terms. Indeed, they have kept their word having paid us today for work we are doing just before Christmas.
These are my own words. Pieter Smithski
before closing down and clearing off with the cash. It has to be said that Advantage have been trading for six years and are still here. Some very small trainers are unable to offer the full service that is offered by the larger trainers such as ourselves. Maybe this is where the broker may score. ie the broker deals with the theory tests, etc and arranges the training with a small trainer who, in turn, has no admin or advertising costs.
Many trainers accept work from brokers to fill in gaps in their schedule. At least I can be happy in the knowledge that people choosing to book through Advantage within our catchment and sent to us will receive high quality training.
Translation: We have sorted a nice deal with them and they are paying us in advance so I better say nice things about them.
That’s the way this thread comes across to me and a couple of other people I have spoken to this afternoon. There is no good reason to go with a broker, they are brokers and I would be advising anyone to not touch them with a long stick used to manoeuvre a vessel on a canal.
I still can’t see any reason to go to a broker as opposed to dealing directly with a driving school, a driving school should be able to arrange anything needed in addition to the lessons, so by using a broker all a candidate is doing is contributing to the wage packet and business expenses of a third party who is entirely superfluous to the arrangement.
Translation: We have sorted a nice deal with them and they are paying us in advance so I better say nice things about them.
Further Translation: We have agreed mutually fair trading terms. I will tell the truth as I know it.
Anyone who knows me will know that it would take a lot more than that to be persuaded to say nice things about them!
We, on odd occassions, do a course for Advantage to fill an unusual gap in our schedule. Surely that makes sense? We fill the gap and the candidate gets a first class job.
Much as I respect Rog, he is naive in his view and his arithmetic. The hard fact is that the brokers ARE here. Like it or lump it. (In other words, if you’re a small trainer reliant on brokers, eat or dont eat). I’m fortunate, I can afford to do their work or not. Many other trainers would be in trouble without their work. And there is nothing to say that the small trainers would get the work if the brokers suddenly ceased to exist.
But I repeat that I would far prefer everyone to go direct to a trainer they have visited and feel comfortable with. That is the one thing that no broker will ever be able to match.
I think Coffeholic was possibly referring to the following posts…
Peter Smythe:
Following on from my earlier post about 1st Class Trucking and their false claim to be DSA registered, I thought I’d spend a few minutes browsing through some other training sites.
Immediately I found the following trainers/brokers all of whom claim to be either DSA registered or offer DSA approved training. In fact, none of these are on any DSA register. (They may find themselves on one they don’t want to be on!)
LGV TRAINING COMPANY
EASY AS HGV
ADVANTAGE
The fact is that they are making false claims to a registration that only a handfull of trainers in the UK actually have.
Peter Smythe:
You mention Advantage and Easy as HGV. These are both brokers who will take your money and eventually organise training with a local provider. Why not just go direct to the provider?
Peter Smythe:
The following companies have been reported to the Driving Standards Agency this morning for making false claims. In most cases they are claiming to be DSA Accredited Centres and in others that they offer DSA Accredited training.
Direct LGV
Atlas
Advantage
LGV Training Company
HGV Express
Easy as HGV
Peter Smythe:
It would be interesting for you to find out who Advantage plan to send you to (they don’t operate any vehicles themselves - they will send you to a driving school) and find out how much the course would have cost you if you’d booked it direct.
Harry Monk:
I think Coffeholic was possibly referring to the following posts…
Peter Smythe:
Following on from my earlier post about 1st Class Trucking and their false claim to be DSA registered, I thought I’d spend a few minutes browsing through some other training sites.
Immediately I found the following trainers/brokers all of whom claim to be either DSA registered or offer DSA approved training. In fact, none of these are on any DSA register. (They may find themselves on one they don’t want to be on!)
LGV TRAINING COMPANY
EASY AS HGV
ADVANTAGE
The fact is that they are making false claims to a registration that only a handfull of trainers in the UK actually have.
Peter Smythe:
You mention Advantage and Easy as HGV. These are both brokers who will take your money and eventually organise training with a local provider. Why not just go direct to the provider?
Peter Smythe:
The following companies have been reported to the Driving Standards Agency this morning for making false claims. In most cases they are claiming to be DSA Accredited Centres and in others that they offer DSA Accredited training.
Direct LGV
Atlas
Advantage
LGV Training Company
HGV Express
Easy as HGV
Peter Smythe:
It would be interesting for you to find out who Advantage plan to send you to (they don’t operate any vehicles themselves - they will send you to a driving school) and find out how much the course would have cost you if you’d booked it direct.
Indeed.
To my mind it looks very iffy on the evidence available.
To be honest, Peter Smythe does come across as one of the Good Guys, and he has kindly given much of his free time to help TruckNet members in their struggle to obtain the licences they crave.
However, I do feel that on this occasion he has been “buttered up” by the snake-oil salesman from Advantage who cold-called him today.
My standard advice still applies, do not touch a broker with a bargepole under any circumstances, go direct to a driving school. There is no better place to get the best help and advice than “from the horse’s mouth”.
Harry Monk:
To be honest, Peter Smythe does come across as one of the Good Guys, and he has kindly given much of his free time to help TruckNet members in their struggle to obtain the licences they crave.
How can someone slag off a type of organisation one minute then take their money the next. This just smacks as being two faced.
All you need to do is call them and listen to the bull the salesman says to you to get your money.
As I have said before if the trainers do not train for these scum bags then they do not have a business it is simple. Brokers have all brought this industry into disrepute and taken money from every trainer in the country.
They operate in the same way as a drug dealer by being really nice and paying their bills quickly for the first few courses so they build your trust then the payments will get slower and slower.
Advantage was incorporated in june 2007 4.5 years ago and has a net worth of £-64,000 according to their 2010 accounts filed at companies house.
This looks as if a deal for some cheap PR has been made
I would say that brokers have put more trainers out of business rather than keeping them in business.
Harry Monk:
To be honest, Peter Smythe does come across as one of the Good Guys, and he has kindly given much of his free time to help TruckNet members in their struggle to obtain the licences they crave.
Without a doubt.
Without a shadow of a doubt.
Since walking out of Peter’s office with my CE certificate back in August, he has helped with a couple of problems I’ve had since, one was last week. A genuinely nice chap who will always go out of his way to help you, even after he’s got your money.
How can someone slag off a type of organisation one minute then take their money the next. This just smacks as being two faced.
All you need to do is call them and listen to the bull the salesman says to you to get your money.
As I have said before if the trainers do not train for these scum bags then they do not have a business it is simple. Brokers have all brought this industry into disrepute and taken money from every trainer in the country.
They operate in the same way as a drug dealer by being really nice and paying their bills quickly for the first few courses so they build your trust then the payments will get slower and slower.
Advantage was incorporated in june 2007 4.5 years ago and has a net worth of £-64,000 according to their 2010 accounts filed at companies house.
This looks as if a deal for some cheap PR has been made
I would say that brokers have put more trainers out of business rather than keeping them in business.
They are still peddling their crap though! I have read many of Peters posts, and stuck up for his methods and beliefs, From what I have read here and from the previously quoted posts, it appears that a nice song is in order.
November 25, 2011
Filed under: Industry News – ‘The HGV Newsbot’ @ 5:48 pm
A HGV driver agency has spoke of its concern that there will be a shortage of HGV drivers to meet demand over the Christmas period. They say this is because of the lack of new HGV drivers entering the market.
There has been an economic slowdown over the last few months, but demand for drivers will still peak over the next few weeks says Luton based ADR Network.
The managing director of the ADR Network, Andrew Waldron said:
“The industry continues to be undersupplied in terms of new entrants into the driver profession and there is a limited pool of agency drivers to relieve pressure during peak periods.
“Organisations that do not have a strategic level resourcing plan in place could well find that there are no resources available to them which could result in considerable supply chain problems.”
According to Skills for Logistics, around 41% of the HGV driving fraternity are already over 45 and drivers are retiring all the time. This makes HGV driver training even more important, so at times of high demand there will be sufficient fully qualified HGV drivers available.
Peter has helped a lot of people behind the scenes as well as he does make himself available at the end of a phone if you need him ( as well as a couple of others )
These are my own words. Pieter Smithski
