Hi there guy,s a friend ? Of mine has asked me to act as his cpc holder - transport manager , for his operator licence , is this in the eyes of vosa is this legal and if so what legal requirements are we both responsible for if successfull.
Also if anyone is working this principal what would be a fair price per annum to charge for this service ?
It’s okay having an external CPC holder, but you have to inform VOSA, explain how you will carry out your duties and how much time you will spend doing so. They have guidelines on how much time they expect you to spend on the TM form. TM1 I think.
You also have to to tell what other companies you work as a CPC holder, I think it’s a maximum of 4 companies and a total of 50 trucks. The CPC holder has Responibilty for ensuring the company is complying with its O’licence conditions, eg drivers hours, maintenance etc.
We pay an hourly rate which also cover travelling costs for visits to our operating centre. Our CPC holder lives in Norfolk and we are based in Kent so it’s a fair distance and wouldn’t be worth it if we didn’t cover that.
Yes, you can do that but be very careful because it’s your repute and therefore your CPC on the line, it used to be that the CPC holder was little more than a tick in the box on the application form but nowadays VOSA expect the TM to actively control the company’s activities, and they will check this.
There’s a thread on here somewhere- I can’t find it- a Transport Manager was invited for tea and biscuits by their local Traffic Commissioner and they were told that they couldn’t be doing their job properly because they should be devoting 8 hours a week to it, say 34 a month, and as the National Minimum Wage is £6.31 then they should be charging a minimum of £214 a month.
How can they spend 8 hours a week per truck? I’m not doubting what you’ve been told at all, but it seems just silly. I am my own TM, and I cant see where that time goes. Over an hour per day. on a weekly basis there should be a review of daily checks and no defect reports, a check of WTD hours and driving hours, and on a 4/6/12 weekly period (depending on mileages/use) they should be on top of making sure the vehicle goes in for inspection and they should get the report/repair list.
Even if done daily, I struggle to see more than 10 mins work and then maybe 45 mins weekly doing tacho records etc. I know a few people who pay ± £25/week for an external TM… The above sounds a bit steep…
Does anyone really see 8 hours a week in reality?
Race Trucker:
How can they spend 8 hours a week per truck? I’m not doubting what you’ve been told at all, but it seems just silly. I am my own TM, and I cant see where that time goes. Over an hour per day. on a weekly basis there should be a review of daily checks and no defect reports, a check of WTD hours and driving hours, and on a 4/6/12 weekly period (depending on mileages/use) they should be on top of making sure the vehicle goes in for inspection and they should get the report/repair list.Even if done daily, I struggle to see more than 10 mins work and then maybe 45 mins weekly doing tacho records etc. I know a few people who pay ± £25/week for an external TM… The above sounds a bit steep…
Does anyone really see 8 hours a week in reality?
It’s nothing to do with reality, it’s just what the Traffic Commissioners have decided. As said above even on minimum wage an external TM has to charge around £250 per month. The idea is to price out external TM’s I think. The Traffic Commissioners much prefer an Internal TM, as in the past many people just put their names to a licence and charged about £25 per week for doing nothing - the TC’s will come down heavy if they suspect an operator is doing this.
8 hours per licence (minimum) not per truck. If named on more than one licence as TM and/or in employment, will need to demonstrate how time is allocated.
Minimum wage don’t come into it if TM is contracted as consultant or freelancer.
bazstan009:
8 hours per licence (minimum) not per truck. If named on more than one licence as TM and/or in employment, will need to demonstrate how time is allocated.Minimum wage don’t come into it if TM is contracted as consultant or freelancer.
Just re-read Your post Baz and indeed you are right, not wrong as I originally stated Sorry 
, the hours VOSA expect you to spend working as a TM depends on how many trucks you’ll be responsible for. Upto 2 trucks then its 8 hours per week, 3 to 5 then it’s 15 hours etc. 15 to 29 truck and they expect it to be a full time job, above that and you should have assistance.
However they are only guidelines, you can, as we did, argue that due to your particular circumstances you feel that you can spend less time acting as the TM than the guidelines suggest. Our argument was that our three trucks together do fewer miles and spend fewer days on the road then one truck on general haulage and as I was already looking after our restricted O’licence I would continue to look after much of the day to day running of the trucks.
This seemed to be accepted by the TC as the application to upgrade our licence went through pretty trouble free.
bazstan009:
8 hours per licence (minimum) not per truck. If named on more than one licence as TM and/or in employment, will need to demonstrate how time is allocated.Minimum wage don’t come into it if TM is contracted as consultant or freelancer.
So it is ok to contract for less than minimum wage? If someone works for 4 operators the minimum hours he is contracted to do is 32, which is 4 days he cannot do any other work - would you work for £25 per day? Copied below part of the TM1 guidance notes for Transport Managers
"External
— you are hired-in to fulfill the role of transport manager under a contract that specifies the tasks you will perform as transport manager. As an external transport manager you can only work for a maximum of 4 operators (not licences) with a combined total fleet of up to a maximum of 50 authorised vehicles.
If you are applying to be an external transport manager you must be able to provide a copy of the contract upon request."
"Guidance note 6 — How many hours per week will you spend on your transport manager duties?
The statutory guidance documents give a broad guideline as to what might be expected in terms of hours worked by a transport manager relative to the maximum number of vehicles authorised for a licence. Please note that this is a starting point only and the traffic commissioner will consider each case on its own fact s and its own merits.
Vehicles Guideline hours (per week)
2 or less 8 hours
3 to 5 15 hours
6 to 10 20 hours
11 to 14 25hours
15 to 29 Full time
30 and above (Full time) Additional assistance required
For goods vehicle licences additional hours may be required for trailers.
Please give full details of the hours you will work in the relevant boxes. If you will not be devoting the amount of time to the relevant licence(s) as shown in the table above, you should provide a written explanation as to how you will carry out all your responsibilities effectively in the time allocated. This should include details such as what systems are in place; how often you intend to visit each operating centre; the hours per week you will devote to each operator; who checks tachographs and where records are kept; and whether there are any other employees to help you. The transport manager(s) on your licence are responsible for the continuous and effective control of the management of the transport operations of the business."
Did’nt say what i thought was right or wrong mate, just what is possible.
If you have a full time job, the TC will take into account the WTD.
bazstan009:
Minimum wage don’t come into it if TM is contracted as consultant or freelancer.
Is that right? I am a freelance TM and signed a contract within a 1 lorry operation, stating i’d be spending 8 hrs per week and was advised to charge £200 per month by a O licence application company.
I am a starter in the TM business and decided i would stick to what i had been advised by others who had been in the industry longer. I have been pulled up by my TC regarding the above, as £200 over a month (4 weeks) @ £50 would be just below the minimum wage.
kevthrev:
bazstan009:
Minimum wage don’t come into it if TM is contracted as consultant or freelancer.Is that right? I am a freelance TM and signed a contract within a 1 lorry operation, stating i’d be spending 8 hrs per week and was advised to charge £200 per month by a O licence application company.
I am a starter in the TM business and decided i would stick to what i had been advised by others who had been in the industry longer. I have been pulled up by my TC regarding the above, as £200 over a month (4 weeks) @ £50 would be just below the minimum wage.
It worked for me 
there two perspectives to this, one man band hiring in a tm has wants to pay the minimum, tm wants what he can get.