6x4 or 6x2

Carryfast:
I’m more familiar with 6x2 rigid and a-frame drawbar trailer type outfit than with artics and that’s the point of view I’m writing from. I’ve also always thought the same way as you about rigid+trailer behaving better than artic in bad conditions. Still that doesn’t change the principles behind the way how you can get more traction from a 6x2 vehicle and on some cases that traction is more than you’d get from a 6x4 vehicle. I also agree with you on that under right conditions difference between 6x2 and 6x4 is like between day and night into a favour of 6x4 and that generally 6x4 is not that prone to differences in available grip than 6x2 is.

I clearly can’t understand the way yanks are thinking as I’ve not grown up to their way of thinking, but I think I can still wonder why they think 6x2 will never be practical choice for a drivetrain?

What I can understand are the practical reasons behind the popularity of the 6x2 vehicles in Finland and the reasons why one can get enough traction from them in Finland. I also think that Swedish operators think same way as Swedish and Finnish lorries have quite the same axle and drivetrain configurations. From what I’ve seen Finnish companies driving to Norway also think they can get enough traction with 6x2 vehicles (drawbar or artic) and based on pictures I’ve seen most Norwegian operators seem to think just the same way.

I also understand there are different practical reasons for chassis configuration on vehicles regularly encountering bad conditions, like loggers, but if thinking only vehicles operating mostly on firm surfaces (practically meaning all vehicles with curtains, boxes or tanks) 6x2 has many benefits over 6x4 in Finland. I think most important of those benefits are:

  • improved payload
  • reduced fuel consumption
  • reduced tyre costs
  • better manoeuvrability because of reduced turning circle when tag is up
  • easier to reverse when tag is up (at least rigid).

There are also some cons and I think most notorious ones are:

  • Difficulties to get moving on snow or ice after being stationary long enough (like from a loading bay).
  • Lack of traction at slow speeds while loaded.

When thinking those from owners point of view, pros for 6x2 easily overcome the cons (in Finland). When thinking from drivers point of view most benefits important to owners are not that important, but as we don’t know about anything better, like you’d probably say, most of the drivers just have learned various tricks to overcome the difficulties their drivetrain causes them at winter. Also Finland is somewhat flat, compared for example to Norway or to Rocky Mountains -area, so we don’t end up running that much at slow speeds where traction problems would arise to a constant concern. In Norway they have more hills but they still seem to prefer 6x2 configuration. Generally they also have bigger engines and less weight to compensate this (600+ horses for 50 tonnes compared to 420-500 horses for 60 tonnes in Finland). Norwegian lorries also this distinctive looks which immediately tells that they are regularly using those chains hanging from their lorries (like removed mudguars :slight_smile:).

Then, just to clarify things, some pictures and videos with some commentaries.

Not ordinary winter weather in Finland, but still it’s common to have snowfalls of about this intensity.There were no reasons to drop speed below 80 km/h limit (although at times visibility could’ve been better). Traction problems were non-existent at higher speeds as my engine didn’t have enough power to get drive axle spinning anymore at speed above 70 km/h despite my rigid being quite front heavy and approx. 15-20 tonne trailer behind me. But like said before, getting a wheel to spin at those speeds generally require so much power from engine that no lorry has it.


This is what could be considered “ordinary winter weather” by road administration. Clear, crisp weather and enough minus degrees so the friction is somewhat constant. It doesn’t matter that road has thin ice coverage as it’s part of the “ordinary winter weather”.


It’s very typical for tippers to do snow ploughing at winter like these two 6x2 tippers (note the “plough under the belly” and attachments for front plough). I guess they have huge difficulties while ploughing or gritting small Finnish roads at winter or then they don’t need double drive as motorways are non-existent at that region.

Then, as yanks clearly like their double drives what if they could lift rearmost axle up when running empty and still have genuine double drive without any Robson drives I mentioned previously?


8x4 tipper with rearmost drive axle lifted up and it’s drive disengaged. Note the similar hubs in rear wheels indicating it has double drive. You still get diff- and crosslocks for this “double drive with lift axle” making it by every mean as powerful as ordinary 6x4 but giving you more traction when empty and better turning circle.

If you aren’t believing that vehicle has double drive, then have a look to these two videos:

Interesting part begins from 0:16. Also note similar snow plough equipments as mentioned before.

Interesting part is from 2:19 to 2:30.

From first video you can see what kind of look a hub on a free rolling axle on this make (Sisu) has and hub on the picture of the 8x4 lorry clearly isn’t such. From second video you clearly can see that it really is double drive as rear axles turn at same pace despite another being on air. First video also show the Robson drive in action.

What about this kind of devices in US on lorries which don’t regularly encounter long, steep and snowy hills?

Kyrbo:
Carryfast:
I’m more familiar with 6x2 rigid and a-frame drawbar trailer type outfit than with artics and that’s the point of view I’m writing from. I’ve also always thought the same way as you about rigid+trailer behaving better than artic in bad conditions. Still that doesn’t change the principles behind the way how you can get more traction from a 6x2 vehicle and on some cases that traction is more than you’d get from a 6x4 vehicle. I also agree with you on that under right conditions difference between 6x2 and 6x4 is like between day and night into a favour of 6x4 and that generally 6x4 is not that prone to differences in available grip than 6x2 is.

I clearly can’t understand the way yanks are thinking as I’ve not grown up to their way of thinking, but I think I can still wonder why they think 6x2 will never be practical choice for a drivetrain?

What I can understand are the practical reasons behind the popularity of the 6x2 vehicles in Finland and the reasons why one can get enough traction from them in Finland. I also think that Swedish operators think same way as Swedish and Finnish lorries have quite the same axle and drivetrain configurations. From what I’ve seen Finnish companies driving to Norway also think they can get enough traction with 6x2 vehicles (drawbar or artic) and based on pictures I’ve seen most Norwegian operators seem to think just the same way.

I also understand there are different practical reasons for chassis configuration on vehicles regularly encountering bad conditions, like loggers, but if thinking only vehicles operating mostly on firm surfaces (practically meaning all vehicles with curtains, boxes or tanks) 6x2 has many benefits over 6x4 in Finland. I think most important of those benefits are:

  • improved payload
  • reduced fuel consumption
  • reduced tyre costs
  • better manoeuvrability because of reduced turning circle when tag is up
  • easier to reverse when tag is up (at least rigid).

There are also some cons and I think most notorious ones are:

  • Difficulties to get moving on snow or ice after being stationary long enough (like from a loading bay).
  • Lack of traction at slow speeds while loaded.

When thinking those from owners point of view, pros for 6x2 easily overcome the cons (in Finland). When thinking from drivers point of view most benefits important to owners are not that important, but as we don’t know about anything better, like you’d probably say, most of the drivers just have learned various tricks to overcome the difficulties their drivetrain causes them at winter. Also Finland is somewhat flat, compared for example to Norway or to Rocky Mountains -area, so we don’t end up running that much at slow speeds where traction problems would arise to a constant concern. In Norway they have more hills but they still seem to prefer 6x2 configuration. Generally they also have bigger engines and less weight to compensate this (600+ horses for 50 tonnes compared to 420-500 horses for 60 tonnes in Finland). Norwegian lorries also this distinctive looks which immediately tells that they are regularly using those chains hanging from their lorries (like removed mudguars :slight_smile:).

Then, just to clarify things, some pictures and videos with some commentaries.

Not ordinary winter weather in Finland, but still it’s common to have snowfalls of about this intensity.There were no reasons to drop speed below 80 km/h limit (although at times visibility could’ve been better). Traction problems were non-existent at higher speeds as my engine didn’t have enough power to get drive axle spinning anymore at speed above 70 km/h despite my rigid being quite front heavy and approx. 15-20 tonne trailer behind me. But like said before, getting a wheel to spin at those speeds generally require so much power from engine that no lorry has it.


This is what could be considered “ordinary winter weather” by road administration. Clear, crisp weather and enough minus degrees so the friction is somewhat constant. It doesn’t matter that road has thin ice coverage as it’s part of the “ordinary winter weather”.


It’s very typical for tippers to do snow ploughing at winter like these two 6x2 tippers (note the “plough under the belly” and attachments for front plough). I guess they have huge difficulties while ploughing or gritting small Finnish roads at winter or then they don’t need double drive as motorways are non-existent at that region.

Then, as yanks clearly like their double drives what if they could lift rearmost axle up when running empty and still have genuine double drive without any Robson drives I mentioned previously?


8x4 tipper with rearmost drive axle lifted up and it’s drive disengaged. Note the similar hubs in rear wheels indicating it has double drive. You still get diff- and crosslocks for this “double drive with lift axle” making it by every mean as powerful as ordinary 6x4 but giving you more traction when empty and better turning circle.

If you aren’t believing that vehicle has double drive, then have a look to these two videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vttgduhZYUQ
Interesting part begins from 0:16. Also note similar snow plough equipments as mentioned before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqSxW1C-eS8
Interesting part is from 2:19 to 2:30.

From first video you can see what kind of look a hub on a free rolling axle on this make (Sisu) has and hub on the picture of the 8x4 lorry clearly isn’t such. From second video you clearly can see that it really is double drive as rear axles turn at same pace despite another being on air. First video also show the Robson drive in action.

What about this kind of devices in US on lorries which don’t regularly encounter long, steep and snowy hills?

Hi krybo it was intersting to see all that and that lift axle double drive idea was interesting.But those conditions there represented in your photos might give some idea of the differences in the States and some winters even here and as you say in Scandinavia it’s the wagon and drag configuration which predominates not artic like in the states.I think I’ve seen some very old photos taken which the German army faced in Russia when they got the extremely deep mud in autumn and then very deep snow in winter on loose surface roads and those conditions can be common in many parts of Canada.The States does’nt have many loose surface roads like Canada but the snow conditions there are often way above what you showed there in your first photo ‘not ordinary conditions’ and even here in Britain that can be what our motorways look like AFTER they’ve been gritted/salted and ploughed with usually just one lane out of three ploughed like that and the rest left up to around knee deep in snow sometimes more.I just reckon that the yanks have found over the years that with only relatively low axle weights and gross train weights when loaded,and conditions which can vary from hot/tropical weather in the South to worse snow conditions than Finland would consider ‘not ordinary’ in the winter all possibly encountered on one run plus high mountain passes with very deep snow,and the artic being far more common there than the rigid wagon/drag it’s very easy to understand why they’ve come to the conclusion that double drive 6X4 is best for all of that combination.While over here it’s also artics in 4X2 or 6x2 configuration which are far more common than wagon and drags and our loads can be variable with a lot of trucks being relatively lightly loaded.If you could imagine conditions which are worse than your ‘not ordinary’ with a relatively lightly loaded or even full 4X2 artic or a 6X2 artic even loaded at it’s max but with all it’s axles in operation by law then you might understand why I like the American idea in general for my preference but those conditions here are relatively rare compared to the States and we can load a 5 or 6 axle artic heavier than the Americans are allowed to so 6X2 here probably works ok ‘most’ of the time.But I would prefer something which could cope with more than ‘most’ conditions having driven 4x2 artics,6X4 rigids and 6x2 wagon and drags here all in worse conditions than Finland would consider as ‘not ordinary’.It’s the 6X4 rigid which was best and the wagon and drag also very good even as 6X2 or I’d bet even better in 6x4 configuration.The artic is about the worse I’d say and at American allowed axle weights and gross weights I’d bet would prove unworkable in their conditions without 6X4 in the long term on long haul work there.

krybo here’s another one from the states this was last week.

And here’s what we can get in England this was last winter and those gritter/ploughs are 6x4 Fodens like the ones which I drove in 1980-85.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/03/snow- … -transport

Carryfast:
And here’s what we can get in England this was last winter and those gritter/ploughs are 6x4 Fodens like the ones which I drove in 1980-85.

guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/0 … -transport

Thanks about this! I was looking for something like that last winter when that snow storm of yours got some attention even in Finnish media, but didn’t found any good pictures. From that page there was access to quite good selection of pictures from that storm.

I think I failed as I chose word “ordinary” to describe the weather in the two pictures, but that wouldn’t be the first time I’m using words unorthodox ways. As you probably have noticed, some words have different meaning to native speakers than is apparent to foreigners from words translation and as I’m far from native English speaker, I’m likely to fall into this kind of traps :slight_smile:

My intentions was more to point out that this kind of weather can be expected on most days practically everywhere in Finland at winter, if temperature is cold enough. With this kind of weather I was also meaning more about the traction you get from road than actual amount of snow. That road in the second picture I posted isn’t dry asphalt but it has ice coating on top of asphalt (which may not be apparent from that small picture) and this was about first such picture I found I had uploaded on a web.

The first picture I posted shows condition which are by no means atypical, but just a weather which easily falls under “normal winter weather”, but you just don’t encounter that kind of weather every day (at least not at the same location). Snowfall of that intensity can still be “not ordinary” if it last for something like over 24 hours. Definition of normal winter road conditions also varies quite a bit geographically and in south climate is typically much warmer than in eastern and northern parts of Finland. I can’t talk about much more than conditions on “southern” Finland as I haven’t driven much at “north” (quotation marks because south means this time something like lower thirds of Finland).

Carryfast:
…your first photo ‘not ordinary conditions’ and even here in Britain that can be what our motorways look like AFTER they’ve been gritted/salted and ploughed with usually just one lane out of three ploughed like that and the rest left up to around knee deep in snow sometimes more.

It probably looks same like your roads after ploughing because it has been ploughed :wink: There’s no way that road wouldn’t be ploughed at least once during that day. If you’re wondering how I’m that certain road has been ploughed check this diary I made from that week (Finnish road administration has also quite strict guidelines about the conditions which are allowed on main road like that). Diary took place late March and most of the snow had already melt on Southern Finland before that storm hit.

About the pictures from US you posted, I’ve seen similar conditions here in Finland last winter than in the first picture. Second picture also looks like it could be from Finland, although picture has so much “white” (hints about digital post-processing) that it’s difficult to say for sure. What I don’t know about the pictures is how long those snowfalls last and that’s where I’m quite certain US wins hands down as they have more continental climate (Finnish climate is between oceanic and continental).

Couple more pics which fall under normal winter conditions in Finland:

I also think we (Finns) are better equipped than you (in UK) to response into snowfalls as those happen far more commonly in Finland than at UK. From here we get again to the 6x2 vs. 6x4 debate :smiley: Opening unploughed roads, like two closed lanes on a three lane motorway, requires far more traction than ploughing roads which are kept open constantly. Also you in the UK are more likely to get most of the snow as a “wet snow” or sleet opposed to “frozen snow” and the latter hinders traffic much less. Those reasons might partially explain why 6x2 snowploughs seem to manage well here, but they still do well even on ploughing unploughed small roads.

Carryfast:
I just reckon that the yanks have found over the years that with only relatively low axle weights and gross train weights when loaded,and conditions which can vary from hot/tropical weather in the South to worse snow conditions than Finland would consider ‘not ordinary’ in the winter all possibly encountered on one run plus high mountain passes with very deep snow,and the artic being far more common there than the rigid wagon/drag it’s very easy to understand why they’ve come to the conclusion that double drive 6X4 is best for all of that combination.While over here it’s also artics in 4X2 or 6x2 configuration which are far more common than wagon and drags and our loads can be variable with a lot of trucks being relatively lightly loaded.If you could imagine conditions which are worse than your ‘not ordinary’ with a relatively lightly loaded or even full 4X2 artic or a 6X2 artic even loaded at it’s max but with all it’s axles in operation by law then you might understand why I like the American idea in general for my preference but those conditions here are relatively rare compared to the States and we can load a 5 or 6 axle artic heavier than the Americans are allowed to so 6X2 here probably works ok ‘most’ of the time.But I would prefer something which could cope with more than ‘most’ conditions having driven 4x2 artics,6X4 rigids and 6x2 wagon and drags here all in worse conditions than Finland would consider as ‘not ordinary’.It’s the 6X4 rigid which was best and the wagon and drag also very good even as 6X2 or I’d bet even better in 6x4 configuration.The artic is about the worse I’d say and at American allowed axle weights and gross weights I’d bet would prove unworkable in their conditions without 6X4 in the long term on long haul work there.

Well, it all comes down to personal preferences and I like more about the idea of vehicle with which you survive on “most” conditions typical to area opposed to having a vehicle which survives on “every” conditions happening on that area, but I’m taking also economical reasons into my preferences. Based on that I don’t keep 6x4 viable solution on a road haulage in Finland (and also not in most parts of Europe) as with it you consume more fuel and tyres and get less payload.

On US, like I think I suspected on some of my post in this thread before, they operate under such vast area in which climate is much more harsh than in Europe in general (US has more continental type climate), so 6x4 might be practical choice like you said. What I still wonder is why they prefer 6x4 on all vehicles, as I’m pretty sure there are also vehicles operating locally on good weather conditions most of the year. About Canada I only say that I’m not going to touch that subject as I’ve got no first hand experiences from Siberia :smiley:

But guess what, I’ve enjoyed this 6x2 vs. 6x4 conversation (or debate? :laughing:) of ours.

Here it is:

Kyrbo:

Carryfast:
… if you don’t know how much deep snow North America can get in the winter then you probably won’t understand their way of thinking. … There’s also a lot of other advantages to double drive in addition to that as well but you’d need to have grown up with the American way to understand them all …

I don’t know how much and how often heavy snowfalls occur there, but I’d guess they are worse than in Finland because of differences in local climate. I also guess that road administrations response to snowfalls is faster in Finland than in US as I think US has a) more roads and b) distances between cities are longer so you are more likely to encounter unploughed snow on the roads so 6x4 might be handy when crossing such sections. Also US is quite huge country meaning lorries drive can drive through vast amount of different weather conditions so 6x4 gives some versatility 6x2 wouldn’t as with 6x4 company doesn’t have to invest that much into winter tyres which wear out fast in warm climate. I’m not that familiar with US states, but I’m quite sure that even in winter weather difference between Great Lakes region and California is quite big and that kind of routes probably occur. Another situation where 6x4 probably has an advantage over 6x2 is when running light as 6x4 is likely more stable at speed they are using in the US than 6x2 with tag up.

Edit:
I just found a short clip from Youtube from a road in Northern Finland in winter, which shows what could be considered somewhat typical over there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcsuxUPcCuo.

Kyrbo:

Carryfast:
And here’s what we can get in England this was last winter and those gritter/ploughs are 6x4 Fodens like the ones which I drove in 1980-85.

guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/0 … -transport

Thanks about this! I was looking for something like that last winter when that snow storm of yours got some attention even in Finnish media, but didn’t found any good pictures. From that page there was access to quite good selection of pictures from that storm.

I think I failed as I chose word “ordinary” to describe the weather in the two pictures, but that wouldn’t be the first time I’m using words unorthodox ways. As you probably have noticed, some words have different meaning to native speakers than is apparent to foreigners from words translation and as I’m far from native English speaker, I’m likely to fall into this kind of traps :slight_smile:

My intentions was more to point out that this kind of weather can be expected on most days practically everywhere in Finland at winter, if temperature is cold enough. With this kind of weather I was also meaning more about the traction you get from road than actual amount of snow. That road in the second picture I posted isn’t dry asphalt but it has ice coating on top of asphalt (which may not be apparent from that small picture) and this was about first such picture I found I had uploaded on a web.

The first picture I posted shows condition which are by no means atypical, but just a weather which easily falls under “normal winter weather”, but you just don’t encounter that kind of weather every day (at least not at the same location). Snowfall of that intensity can still be “not ordinary” if it last for something like over 24 hours. Definition of normal winter road conditions also varies quite a bit geographically and in south climate is typically much warmer than in eastern and northern parts of Finland. I can’t talk about much more than conditions on “southern” Finland as I haven’t driven much at “north” (quotation marks because south means this time something like lower thirds of Finland).

Carryfast:
…your first photo ‘not ordinary conditions’ and even here in Britain that can be what our motorways look like AFTER they’ve been gritted/salted and ploughed with usually just one lane out of three ploughed like that and the rest left up to around knee deep in snow sometimes more.

It probably looks same like your roads after ploughing because it has been ploughed :wink: There’s no way that road wouldn’t be ploughed at least once during that day. If you’re wondering how I’m that certain road has been ploughed check this diary I made from that week (Finnish road administration has also quite strict guidelines about the conditions which are allowed on main road like that). Diary took place late March and most of the snow had already melt on Southern Finland before that storm hit.

About the pictures from US you posted, I’ve seen similar conditions here in Finland last winter than in the first picture. Second picture also looks like it could be from Finland, although picture has so much “white” (hints about digital post-processing) that it’s difficult to say for sure. What I don’t know about the pictures is how long those snowfalls last and that’s where I’m quite certain US wins hands down as they have more continental climate (Finnish climate is between oceanic and continental).

Couple more pics which fall under normal winter conditions in Finland:

I also think we (Finns) are better equipped than you (in UK) to response into snowfalls as those happen far more commonly in Finland than at UK. From here we get again to the 6x2 vs. 6x4 debate :smiley: Opening unploughed roads, like two closed lanes on a three lane motorway, requires far more traction than ploughing roads which are kept open constantly. Also you in the UK are more likely to get most of the snow as a “wet snow” or sleet opposed to “frozen snow” and the latter hinders traffic much less. Those reasons might partially explain why 6x2 snowploughs seem to manage well here, but they still do well even on ploughing unploughed small roads.

Carryfast:
I just reckon that the yanks have found over the years that with only relatively low axle weights and gross train weights when loaded,and conditions which can vary from hot/tropical weather in the South to worse snow conditions than Finland would consider ‘not ordinary’ in the winter all possibly encountered on one run plus high mountain passes with very deep snow,and the artic being far more common there than the rigid wagon/drag it’s very easy to understand why they’ve come to the conclusion that double drive 6X4 is best for all of that combination.While over here it’s also artics in 4X2 or 6x2 configuration which are far more common than wagon and drags and our loads can be variable with a lot of trucks being relatively lightly loaded.If you could imagine conditions which are worse than your ‘not ordinary’ with a relatively lightly loaded or even full 4X2 artic or a 6X2 artic even loaded at it’s max but with all it’s axles in operation by law then you might understand why I like the American idea in general for my preference but those conditions here are relatively rare compared to the States and we can load a 5 or 6 axle artic heavier than the Americans are allowed to so 6X2 here probably works ok ‘most’ of the time.But I would prefer something which could cope with more than ‘most’ conditions having driven 4x2 artics,6X4 rigids and 6x2 wagon and drags here all in worse conditions than Finland would consider as ‘not ordinary’.It’s the 6X4 rigid which was best and the wagon and drag also very good even as 6X2 or I’d bet even better in 6x4 configuration.The artic is about the worse I’d say and at American allowed axle weights and gross weights I’d bet would prove unworkable in their conditions without 6X4 in the long term on long haul work there.

Well, it all comes down to personal preferences and I like more about the idea of vehicle with which you survive on “most” conditions typical to area opposed to having a vehicle which survives on “every” conditions happening on that area, but I’m taking also economical reasons into my preferences. Based on that I don’t keep 6x4 viable solution on a road haulage in Finland (and also not in most parts of Europe) as with it you consume more fuel and tyres and get less payload.

On US, like I think I suspected on some of my post in this thread before, they operate under such vast area in which climate is much more harsh than in Europe in general (US has more continental type climate), so 6x4 might be practical choice like you said. What I still wonder is why they prefer 6x4 on all vehicles, as I’m pretty sure there are also vehicles operating locally on good weather conditions most of the year. About Canada I only say that I’m not going to touch that subject as I’ve got no first hand experiences from Siberia :smiley:

But guess what, I’ve enjoyed this 6x2 vs. 6x4 conversation (or debate? :laughing:) of ours.

Here it is:

Kyrbo:

Carryfast:
… if you don’t know how much deep snow North America can get in the winter then you probably won’t understand their way of thinking. … There’s also a lot of other advantages to double drive in addition to that as well but you’d need to have grown up with the American way to understand them all …

I don’t know how much and how often heavy snowfalls occur there, but I’d guess they are worse than in Finland because of differences in local climate. I also guess that road administrations response to snowfalls is faster in Finland than in US as I think US has a) more roads and b) distances between cities are longer so you are more likely to encounter unploughed snow on the roads so 6x4 might be handy when crossing such sections. Also US is quite huge country meaning lorries drive can drive through vast amount of different weather conditions so 6x4 gives some versatility 6x2 wouldn’t as with 6x4 company doesn’t have to invest that much into winter tyres which wear out fast in warm climate. I’m not that familiar with US states, but I’m quite sure that even in winter weather difference between Great Lakes region and California is quite big and that kind of routes probably occur. Another situation where 6x4 probably has an advantage over 6x2 is when running light as 6x4 is likely more stable at speed they are using in the US than 6x2 with tag up.

Edit:
I just found a short clip from Youtube from a road in Northern Finland in winter, which shows what could be considered somewhat typical over there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcsuxUPcCuo.

Kyrbo I bet you won’t find anything like this on youtube this is what a typical job running in Canada can involve when a loose road gets wet.I got the photos sent over from them over there to show you what it’s often like over there and another reason why they don’t like 6x2 tractor units. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Nice pictures, but I guess the driver really didn’t think even his 6x4 was good enough that time :laughing:

But those pictures quite much shows why I said I wouldn’t be touching the Canada-subject as it’s much more like Siberia than Finland :wink: You’ve probably seen these before, but those pictures you posted pretty much look like this Siberian highway: Russian Roads 4 - English Russia

Kyrbo:
Nice pictures, but I guess the driver really didn’t think even his 6x4 was good enough that time :laughing:

But those pictures quite much shows why I said I wouldn’t be touching the Canada-subject as it’s much more like Siberia than Finland :wink: You’ve probably seen these before, but those pictures you posted pretty much look like this Siberian highway: Russian Roads 4 - English Russia

Kyrbo you’re right about even a 6x4 not being good enough in those conditions but it’ll get you a lot further into the sxxt before they have to pull you through with a Cat than a 4x2 or a 6x2 would.A 4x2 or 6x2 would have given up long before it even reached Moscow from here as Hitler’s lot found out.Anyway at about the 11th photo from the top one there was a fit looking Russian bird standing on the step of what looked like a Kamaz or Zil tractor unit? and I think she probably liked it because it was probably a 6x4 not a 6x2 or a 4x2 and it was one of the only ones left on it’s wheels not on it’s side.I’d liked to have been stuck in the mud with her for a while.But how the hell did those Russians manage to drive those cars into that stuff?.Most British ones can’t even drive on proper roads here when it rains. :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Carryfast:
Kyrbo you’re right about even a 6x4 not being good enough in those conditions but it’ll get you a lot further into the sxxt before they have to pull you through with a Cat…

Yes, I’ve heard that same from logger drivers. They keep saying that with 6x4 you get into such places that when you finally get stuck you are really stuck :smiley: But still, 6x4 is very practical choice for that kind of operations as ground is often quite far from “firm” :laughing:

Carryfast:
Anyway at about the 11th photo from the top one there was a fit looking Russian bird standing on the step of what looked like a Kamaz or Zil tractor unit? and I think she probably liked it because it was probably a 6x4 not a 6x2 or a 4x2 …

I think that tractor unit looks pretty much like KrAZ. Look of KrAZ is somewhat familiar here as there are still plenty of KrAZ rigids in use in Finnish army and that same look, and look of its front tyres, hint that vehicle being 6x6. If my memory serves me correct, 6x6 KrAZ-vehicles do have cross-locks but no diff-locks, effectively making it three-wheel driven, but still that vehicle if any is terrain worthy (just look the width of its front tyre).

Btw. did you notice how there was 70 km/h speed limit on that road because of roadworks? :laughing: :laughing:

Kyrbo:

Carryfast:
Kyrbo you’re right about even a 6x4 not being good enough in those conditions but it’ll get you a lot further into the sxxt before they have to pull you through with a Cat…

Yes, I’ve heard that same from logger drivers. They keep saying that with 6x4 you get into such places that when you finally get stuck you are really stuck :smiley: But still, 6x4 is very practical choice for that kind of operations as ground is often quite far from “firm” :laughing:

Carryfast:
Anyway at about the 11th photo from the top one there was a fit looking Russian bird standing on the step of what looked like a Kamaz or Zil tractor unit? and I think she probably liked it because it was probably a 6x4 not a 6x2 or a 4x2 …

I think that tractor unit looks pretty much like KrAZ. Look of KrAZ is somewhat familiar here as there are still plenty of KrAZ rigids in use in Finnish army and that same look, and look of its front tyres, hint that vehicle being 6x6. If my memory serves me correct, 6x6 KrAZ-vehicles do have cross-locks but no diff-locks, effectively making it three-wheel driven, but still that vehicle if any is terrain worthy (just look the width of its front tyre).

Btw. did you notice how there was 70 km/h speed limit on that road because of roadworks? :laughing: :laughing:

Talking of 6X6 this was the first type of truck I ever drove and it might have been able to exceed that 70 kmh limit through there with me driving it :laughing: :laughing:

www.fire-engine-photos.com/picture/number4345.asp