Hi all, thank you in advance for any replies and a peaceful new year to all. I have several drivers starting their daily duty before 4am which puts them into the night-working category and only enables them to work a 10 hour shift, but with dual consent this can be extended. My question is (and I’ve asked DVSA only to be quoted text not an interpretation) what form of agreement is necessary, are there formalised agreements or anything specific I need to draught for the drivers to enable them to carry out say a 12 hour, five days a week, day starting at 3am for example. I hope I’ve explained myself Ok…
pizzaprince:
I have several drivers starting their daily duty before 4am which puts them into the night-working category and only enables them to work a 10 hour shift,
that is not quite correct 
it is 10 hours WORKING time, not total duty time
with the right amount of POA and breaks, the driver would still be legally able to complete a full 13 or 15 hour duty period
Jesus, 3am start with a full 15 hour shift!..no way Jose 
.
I could never do those sort of hours, tried it but it nearly killed me, literally! Trying to sleep when you want to be awake (along with everyone else) then having to wake up in the middle of the night to start when everyone else is fast asleep for at least another 4-5 hours. No thank you.
I can start at 6-7am and drive right around to 3-4am the next morning but then im out for the count until around mid day. I know its horses for courses but no way could I start work at that time of the morning let alone then go on to do a 15 hour shift!!
It can just be a clause in their contract which states the company and employees have chosen to opt out of the 10 hour agreement. Theres no official form for it.
pizzaprince:
Hi all, thank you in advance for any replies and a peaceful new year to all. I have several drivers starting their daily duty before 4am which puts them into the night-working category and only enables them to work a 10 hour shift, but with dual consent this can be extended. My question is (and I’ve asked DVSA only to be quoted text not an interpretation) what form of agreement is necessary, are there formalised agreements or anything specific I need to draught for the drivers to enable them to carry out say a 12 hour, five days a week, day starting at 3am for example. I hope I’ve explained myself Ok…
To opt out of the night time working time limit you need a workforce agreement (or a collective agreement if there’s a union) in place, a workforce agreement has to be in writing and must be agreed with the workforce via a secret vote by the workers, the agreement can last no longer than 5 years.
This guide will give you a good idea of what’s required.
Article 7 - Guidance on the Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
For the actual regulations see Schedule 1 - The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
Also see Night work - The Road Transport (Working Time) Regulations 2005
m1cks:
It can just be a clause in their contract which states the company and employees have chosen to opt out of the 10 hour agreement. Theres no official form for it.
No it can’t, well not if the OP wants to do it in a legal way that will not lead to employment law infractions anyway.
tachograph:
m1cks:
It can just be a clause in their contract which states the company and employees have chosen to opt out of the 10 hour agreement. Theres no official form for it.No it can’t, well not if the OP wants to do it in a legal way that will not lead to employment law infractions anyway.
I’ve never had to take part in any ballot and always assumed that as part of a contract it’s as legally binding as any ballot.
m1cks:
tachograph:
m1cks:
It can just be a clause in their contract which states the company and employees have chosen to opt out of the 10 hour agreement. Theres no official form for it.No it can’t, well not if the OP wants to do it in a legal way that will not lead to employment law infractions anyway.
I’ve never had to take part in any ballot and always assumed that as part of a contract it’s as legally binding as any ballot.
That’s probably because the agreement was already in place when you joined the company.
We the undersigned hereby opt out of the night time working regulations. We understand we can opt back in at any time.
Signed
Think this would suffice
jc69817:
We the undersigned hereby opt out of the night time working regulations. We understand we can opt back in at any time.Signed
Think this would suffice
We had a form out a few weeks ago with this on it, you could either agree or disagree (giving us the choice)
I agreed but that doesn’t mean that I’ll be starting before 4 on a regular basis. Zzzzzz.
bullitt:
Jesus, 3am start with a full 15 hour shift!..no way Jose
I could never do those sort of hours, tried it but it nearly killed me, literally! Trying to sleep when you want to be awake (along with everyone else) then having to wake up in the middle of the night to start when everyone else is fast asleep for at least another 4-5 hours. No thank you.
I can start at 6-7am and drive right around to 3-4am the next morning but then im out for the count until around mid day. I know its horses for courses but no way could I start work at that time of the morning let alone then go on to do a 15 hour shift!!
This is why some of us take the view that waiting in an uncomfortable RDC drivers’ room while ‘on break’ so that the wheels can turn immediately afterwards is unacceptable. The break needs to be a genuine opportunity to rest: ie doze off if desired.
Just write on a piece of paper that everyone is cool with everything & get them all to sign it.
I can’t work between midnight & 5am. Soft see.
tachograph:
m1cks:
tachograph:
m1cks:
It can just be a clause in their contract which states the company and employees have chosen to opt out of the 10 hour agreement. Theres no official form for it.No it can’t, well not if the OP wants to do it in a legal way that will not lead to employment law infractions anyway.
I’ve never had to take part in any ballot and always assumed that as part of a contract it’s as legally binding as any ballot.
That’s probably because the agreement was already in place when you joined the company.
Or because no ones had an issue with it …yet.
Don’t understand why drivers are so keen to sign away this legislation, 10 hour planned nights are plenty and 4 am is early enough when you’ve got an expected 10 or 15 hour shift.
It’s not 1963 any more lads, you no longer need to do two weeks work for a weeks pay.
Juddian:
Don’t understand why drivers are so keen to sign away this legislation, 10 hour planned nights are plenty and 4 am is early enough when you’ve got an expected 10 or 15 hour shift.It’s not 1963 any more lads, you no longer need to do two weeks work for a weeks pay.
I agree that we shouldn’t do two weeks work for a weeks pay,who would disagree with that but whetever you do 15 hours through the day or 15 hours through the night it’s still 15 hours no?
I personally prefer running my shift through the night to be honest,less traffic and stress etc.
What ever way you spin it, no one should be working 15 hour shifts full stop!! An 8 - 10 hour day is long enough for anyone. If you can’t earn enough in 8/10 hours then you’re in the wrong job. For it be accepted practice to work a 15 hour shift twice a week, regardless of whether it’s a day into night shift or visa versa, is just plain wrong. It maybe different if you are an OD or sole trader, but for an employee in the 21st century it’s just wrong.