AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem. Expensive RFL and fuel, blame the UK govt for that one, we all know RFL isnt spent on the road infrastructure and tax on fuel is around 80%, time to haul the UK govt over the coals, its certainly not the fault of some BG/HU/PL/RO haulier. Banning EE trucks from UK roads eh? How about banning UK traffic from European roads, works both ways…
Tax from fuel and RFL isn’t ring fenced for road related projects, it’s true- it goes into the general tax pot to help fund hospitals schools unemployment social funding etc etc.
Paying taxes due is part of being a part of society. We can read the bad cases highlighted in the Red Tops about scroungers, and moan about how much we’re paying, but mostly it’s well spent. Evade taxes on fuel and you’re taking pay from nurses. Don’t pay unemployment because one or two are lazy tossers and you’ll deny hrlp to those who want to work. Do you think UK employers should drive down our wages so they can compete? They could decrease pay bills if they decrease pay and pensions and sick cover. No thank you. The race to the bottom is going fast enough already.
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Im not talking of UK hauliers ‘evading’ tax, what im saying if tax on fuel was lower inc RFL it would create a more level playing field. The NHS is very expensive to run but huge cost savings could be made without disrupting quality of care and nurses pay by reducing huge salaries by managerial fat cats and profiteering private patient transport and cleaning companies for just a start. Theres so very very much wrong with the UK and it just seems to get worse. Although i still own a house there im just so very glad i dont live/ work or the best thing dont have to drive in the ■■■■■■■■ anymore or have any idea what this ‘race to the bottom’ thing is…
One of my biggest worries about this is, is it going to be policed properply. For example are the french or what ever else authrioty going to target the right trucks, here comes a british or irish truck, they’ll have the money to pay my big fine, alot of smaller ee companys dont have that sort of money, the gendamarie know this, and im afraid they may not be targeted, even tho they are the source of the problem.
So by reducing monies taken in taxes and given to health we can level the playing field. Level it wih the Romanian health services? That’s the race to the bottom.
Governments of all colours talk of efficiency savings. For years they’ve been looking, but who wants a truly efficient health service? One where only those who are gonna be cured and work again get treated? If you are unlucky enough to get cancer do you want a monetarily efficient treatment or a cure that costs a bit more but actually does some good? Do administrators get paid a lot? Yeah, and some probably are over paid. But have you never said ‘pay peanuts get monkeys’? Don’t we need some professionals getting a decent salary to run a more efficient health service? Privatised cleaning companies, good point. I’ve got doubts about how good they are too. Privatised transport I know nowt about so I’ll keep quiet.
TheYoungTrucker:
One of my biggest worries about this is, is it going to be policed properply. For example are the french or what ever else authrioty going to target the right trucks, here comes a british or irish truck, they’ll have the money to pay my big fine, alot of smaller ee companys dont have that sort of money, the gendamarie know this, and im afraid they may not be targeted, even tho they are the source of the problem.
This has been going on for a couple years in France and Belgium, and nobody on here has complained about getting picked on for fines, and realistically a they’d have to find the UK, Irish or other Western European truck parked up on a weekend, surrounded by the East European ones.
AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem. Expensive RFL and fuel, blame the UK govt for that one, we all know RFL isnt spent on the road infrastructure and tax on fuel is around 80%, time to haul the UK govt over the coals, its certainly not the fault of some BG/HU/PL/RO haulier. Banning EE trucks from UK roads eh? How about banning UK traffic from European roads, works both ways…
Tax from fuel and RFL isn’t ring fenced for road related projects, it’s true- it goes into the general tax pot to help fund hospitals schools unemployment social funding etc etc.
Paying taxes due is part of being a part of society. We can read the bad cases highlighted in the Red Tops about scroungers, and moan about how much we’re paying, but mostly it’s well spent. Evade taxes on fuel and you’re taking pay from nurses. Don’t pay unemployment because one or two are lazy tossers and you’ll deny hrlp to those who want to work. Do you think UK employers should drive down our wages so they can compete? They could decrease pay bills if they decrease pay and pensions and sick cover. No thank you. The race to the bottom is going fast enough already.
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Im not talking of UK hauliers ‘evading’ tax, what im saying if tax on fuel was lower inc RFL it would create a more level playing field.
What are, by a long way, the biggest cost factors in running a truck, fuel and wages, if you’re running Europe you’re not filling up in the UK, UK fuel duty is irrelevant, that leaves wages and the main difference and even if you matched all the other costs to an East European haulage operation you still wouldn’t match the wages.
TheYoungTrucker:
One of my biggest worries about this is, is it going to be policed properply. For example are the french or what ever else authrioty going to target the right trucks, here comes a british or irish truck, they’ll have the money to pay my big fine, alot of smaller ee companys dont have that sort of money, the gendamarie know this, and im afraid they may not be targeted, even tho they are the source of the problem.
It’s the companies not the drivers that will be liable for the fines. If they want to get the goods delivered and keep their contracts they’ll pay. It seems many EE companies are very large and have more than enough cash. I work mostly in France, more stopping at controls here for sure, but if you’re straight you loose 30 minutes and then just go on. You’ll normally have a Bulletin De Controle so if stopped again you show that and get waved through. No great shakes. There’s always someone on the boat wih a story about how it’s only us Brits that get stopped, but that’s not my experience.
AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem. Expensive RFL and fuel, blame the UK govt for that one, we all know RFL isnt spent on the road infrastructure and tax on fuel is around 80%, time to haul the UK govt over the coals, its certainly not the fault of some BG/HU/PL/RO haulier. Banning EE trucks from UK roads eh? How about banning UK traffic from European roads, works both ways…
Tax from fuel and RFL isn’t ring fenced for road related projects, it’s true- it goes into the general tax pot to help fund hospitals schools unemployment social funding etc etc.
Paying taxes due is part of being a part of society. We can read the bad cases highlighted in the Red Tops about scroungers, and moan about how much we’re paying, but mostly it’s well spent. Evade taxes on fuel and you’re taking pay from nurses. Don’t pay unemployment because one or two are lazy tossers and you’ll deny hrlp to those who want to work. Do you think UK employers should drive down our wages so they can compete? They could decrease pay bills if they decrease pay and pensions and sick cover. No thank you. The race to the bottom is going fast enough already.
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Im not talking of UK hauliers ‘evading’ tax, what im saying if tax on fuel was lower inc RFL it would create a more level playing field.
What are, by a long way, the biggest cost factors in running a truck, fuel and wages, if you’re running Europe you’re not filling up in the UK, UK fuel duty is irrelevant, that leaves wages and the main difference and even if you matched all the other costs to an East European haulage operation you still wouldn’t match the wages.
^^^That.
As I said earlier, the EU are actually looking at this in the coming months, so even they recognise a problem.
It’s certainly not a case of won’t compete. If your cost base is significantly lower than the country in which you operate, then the hauliers of that country cannot compete. Last years figures from the DfT showed that domestic work carried out by foreign hauliers in the UK rose by 50% in one year. UK work done by foreign firms is still a very small part of work carried out (<2%), but that is a serious increase ; wether it’s a trend or not probably depends on what the EU court decides (eventually), or if the UK government gets to make a choice about how it charges foreign vehicles once out of the EU.
Could you imagine the foreigners letting us NIP round Europe doing THEIR work 25/ 30 years ago? I don’t think so. you can stick your cabotage up your aerosils.
If the UK decides to charge ‘foreign’ vehicles passing the border it wont be long before its vice versa and would totally finish European work for many UK hauliers, its a no brainer, it wouldnt work. Cabotage, at least in Europe is here to stay and i for one support that, it works well for us anyway…
AndrewG:
If the UK decides to charge ‘foreign’ vehicles passing the border it wont be long before its vice versa and would totally finish European work for many UK hauliers, its a no brainer, it wouldnt work. Cabotage, at least in Europe is here to stay and i for one support that, it works well for us anyway…
Well UK European haulage is almost finished anyway.
Early 90s IIRC it was about 75-80%, last DfT figures it’s 12.6%, two years ago it was around 16%.
I don’t see why some sort of charge would kill it (not necessarily a border charge. I’ve been paying to go into Belgium for years, paying French tolls, paying Maut, buying a Go Box - none of that killed anything.
From a purely selfish pov, whatever the costs, the bulk of my work, no foreign haulier can do, so it makes no odds to me personally, but it does bother me that UK companies can’t compete and that foreign hauliers pay little to use our roads.
AndrewG:
If the UK decides to charge ‘foreign’ vehicles passing the border it wont be long before its vice versa and would totally finish European work for many UK hauliers, its a no brainer, it wouldnt work. Cabotage, at least in Europe is here to stay and i for one support that, it works well for us anyway…
You won’t be saying that when they let another few third world dumps in with even lower costs.
Andrejs:
Weekend rest it is free dispose of time.But why somebody want dictate where drivers must sleep or eat low quality and danger food at hotel ot Mac… ,Kf…■■?If free dispose of time that driver must decide whete he will sleep,eat, but not Vosa.If somebody not happy about competition that must make changes in another rulles.
Underwater bubbled the children. No tangerine he forklift without.
Thank you please.
(Personally, I couldn’t care less if Slodoban wants to live in a truck, and be away from home for months, and eat out of bins. It’s his boss that undercuts the rates, and has ■■■■■■ up the industry, that needs dealing with)
albion:
It’s certainly not a case of won’t compete. If your cost base is significantly lower than the country in which you operate, then the hauliers of that country cannot compete. Last years figures from the DfT showed that domestic work carried out by foreign hauliers in the UK rose by 50% in one year. UK work done by foreign firms is still a very small part of work carried out (<2%), but that is a serious increase ; wether it’s a trend or not probably depends on what the EU court decides (eventually), or if the UK government gets to make a choice about how it charges foreign vehicles once out of the EU.
Surely if we’re out of it it’s then more a question of whether the government outlaws cabotage and East Euro operations hauling UK-West Euro loads totally,or not. Knowing our government it will probably keep both even if they do decide to get us out.
AndrewG:
If the UK decides to charge ‘foreign’ vehicles passing the border it wont be long before its vice versa and would totally finish European work for many UK hauliers, its a no brainer, it wouldnt work. Cabotage, at least in Europe is here to stay and i for one support that, it works well for us anyway…
For us cabotage and all third country operations are a lose lose situation.We’d be far better off with just outlawing cabotage and applying quotas on all UK-Europe freight movements.Giving UK hauliers at least 50% of all such journeys and no third country involvment at all in that.IE if it’s going to and/or coming from Spain then only a Brit or Spanish truck can haul it on a fair shares basis.
seems to me that the very countries France and Germany helped into the EU for their own gain…are now trying to get rid of them…These 2 countries + Belgium are only enforcing what was written in law anyway for the whole of the EU, the UK never enforced the excess fuel regulation, and i dont see them enforcing this one. Maybe the EU cretins thought they could rid the eu of thousands of EE trucks parking on the services and laybys and not spending, but if this ruling is enforced, then the trucks will still be there wont they…except the drivers will be in a hotel…the brit drivers will use the bar and tell them to just put it down to the hotel and not the bar bill ha ha …like the old days with a pluus mesieur lol.
The ruling is not allowed to sleep in a truck for a weekly rest of 45 hours…not a reduced…so if most brits for eg take a 45 in the uk then ship out./.they can if stuck still take a reduced in the cab of 24.so long as they take a 45 + the reduced then do it all again…
I think the Eu is crazy, especially in europe where the EE drivers congregate in a services, which is free anyway…but they have access to facilities like toilets, showers and food etc…only to have those same facilities in a hotel/bb. i think thats the whole crux of the matter…to force drivers to spend their money, but, it will lead to a situation where IF the boss pays for a hotel, theres no need for night out money…which makes up a great deal of a uk drivers wages…therefore they will look for something else…and companies will not be able to recruit drivers for international work due to the low/reduced wages…unless its agreed with the bosses that they are liable for the hotel, and must still pay Inconvenience money for a driver being away from his family etc.
I think that it must be written in law, that these expenses have to be made by the company, and be given to the driver prior to leaving for his trip abroad…like it always used to be ( same as night out money ) we always got it before we left, along with running money.
I was in Berlin last week and got chatting to a few locals and the general message was that normal people there are not happy with the EU and mainly about the Eastern European states and putting lots in to bail out the Euro and see us leaving as meaning a bigger burden for them.
I’d have voted remain without a doubt if it had been the pre Eastern block EU
kr79:
I was in Berlin last week and got chatting to a few locals and the general message was that normal people there are not happy with the EU and mainly about the Eastern European states and putting lots in to bail out the Euro and see us leaving as meaning a bigger burden for them.
I’d have voted remain without a doubt if it had been the pre Eastern block EU
To be fair we were getting an ever increasingly bad deal out of it regards everything from the transfer of industry to an ever reducing share of the road transport market from the time we joined and well before the East Euro issue.To the point where transit countries like France and Germany were holding UK hauliers to ransom regards permits by classing transit such as UK-Italy freight movements as part of their own permit quotas.
AndrewG:
If the UK decides to charge ‘foreign’ vehicles passing the border it wont be long before its vice versa and would totally finish European work for many UK hauliers, its a no brainer, it wouldnt work. Cabotage, at least in Europe is here to stay and i for one support that, it works well for us anyway…
You won’t be saying that when they let another few third world dumps in with even lower costs.
And where exactly are these extra third world dumps coming from? Cabotage can be very advantageous going from border to border if you work it right…
I don’t think so. 
you can stick your cabotage up your aerosils. 
Knowing our government it will probably keep both even if they do decide to get us out. 
