Talking about how they are going to check and enforce this rule, would this be planned to tie in with the new Tacho’s that record your location?
AndrewG:
What some forget is that many if not all EE hauliers have less profit margin due to kower rates due to huge competition within their own country, this filters down to drivers pay, many BG/RO/HU drivers are already on a pittance. Enforce this kind of ruling which costs companies money will equate to either less work or lower pay, not a good thing for EE drivers who already find it hard enough putting a crust on the table. As an example my sister in laws brother who drives for Sajco Trans SRL earns less than 4000 leu (RON) per month and thats with bonuses…
So the same thing that they done to Western European international hauliers.
AndrewG:
What some forget is that many if not all EE hauliers have less profit margin due to kower rates due to huge competition within their own country, this filters down to drivers pay, many BG/RO/HU drivers are already on a pittance. Enforce this kind of ruling which costs companies money will equate to either less work or lower pay, not a good thing for EE drivers who already find it hard enough putting a crust on the table. As an example my sister in laws brother who drives for Sajco Trans SRL earns less than 4000 leu (RON) per month and thats with bonuses…
You say higher costs (paying weekends etc) will result in less work or less wages. Seems to me the work will still be there as goods have to be shifted. If costs rise because of higher wages for drivers then maybe we’ll all have to pay a penny more for our cornflakes. If all companies have the same extra costs then there’s no need for wage cuts. 50euros? on the wage costs for a driver over two weeks. If a company can’t stand that then it’s business plan stinks and it deserves to fail. If it goes to the wall will the drivers be out of work? The same amount of goods will ultimately have to be moved so vacancies will open in better run firms surely.
Andrejs:
Weekend rest it is free dispose of time.But why somebody want dictate where drivers must sleep or eat low quality and danger food at hotel ot Mac… ,Kf…■■?If free dispose of time that driver must decide whete he will sleep,eat, but not Vosa.If somebody not happy about competition that must make changes in another rulles.
A driver with only a few euros in his pockets isn’t free to make much of a choice. Give him access to an hotel or whatever, at no expense to himself and see if he and the 2nd driver choose to sit in a Renault Premium for days waiting for a load in England in sunny November.
No valid hotel receipts means fines for the operator of the truck not the drivers. No one wants to take money from them. With hotel rooms paid for, they are then free to stop where they want, cab or hotel.
OK so unscrupulous companies will try to issue false receipts you’ll say? Well that’s fraud and if thousands of euro fines aren’t frightening then maybe prison is.
Remember trucks weekending in the UK will be subject to Eu law amd papers inspection for 4 weeks. Like driving hours offences this won’t stop at the border. Getting off the ferry in Dover doesn’t mean your 20 hour shift in Germany and France doesn’t matter. So their 45hrs in the UK will have to be accounted for in Euroland.
kr79:
Soldier z:
Franglais:
kr79:
Franglais:
So long as you’ve got a genuine hotel bill, not Mickey Mouse note from the boss, I doubt anyone will go around sniffing bed sheets to check where you’ve actually been. From my time doing weekends away a night or two in a nive hotel wad a welcome change. We aren’t talking portacabins. The fact it’ll be difficult to police shouldn’t mean we give up before we start.Not hard to enforce on a tacho check 45 hour break anywhere but your home country no hotel bill you get fined.
Can’t believe so many brits seem opposed to it when it will only realy affect the people who are part of the problem with the industry in this countrySeems that way to me. Big fines for employers, like the French impose, and it’s cheaper to treat drivers properly than risk running bent.
It only works if the rest of the EU enforces it.
If you’re running back simply have your 45 off outside France somewhere they aren’t enforcing it.
Likewise straight in and out of France if you’re going out.Knowing the French they will fine you if your 45 was in any country other than your home one if stopped in France
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kr79:
AndrewG:
What some forget is that many if not all EE hauliers have less profit margin due to kower rates due to huge competition within their own country, this filters down to drivers pay, many BG/RO/HU drivers are already on a pittance. Enforce this kind of ruling which costs companies money will equate to either less work or lower pay, not a good thing for EE drivers who already find it hard enough putting a crust on the table. As an example my sister in laws brother who drives for Sajco Trans SRL earns less than 4000 leu (RON) per month and thats with bonuses…So the same thing that they done to Western European international hauliers.
Thats business. It costs far less to fuel/insure/tax an EE truck, correspondingly wages are lower/ cost of living and conditions lower. If UK hauliers want to compete they need to get themselves over here instead of staying on the little island whinging about it, cabotage isnt selective and the allowed three movements in a week would see anyone busy throughout the week…
AndrewG:
Thats business. It costs far less to fuel/insure/tax an EE truck, correspondingly wages are lower/ cost of living and conditions lower. If UK hauliers want to compete they need to get themselves over here instead of staying on the little island whinging about it, cabotage isnt selective and the allowed three movements in a week would see anyone busy throughout the week…
Only if they wanted to run around on eastern European rates while having to pay western European costs.
AndrewG:
kr79:
AndrewG:
What some forget is that many if not all EE hauliers have less profit margin due to kower rates due to huge competition within their own country, this filters down to drivers pay, many BG/RO/HU drivers are already on a pittance. Enforce this kind of ruling which costs companies money will equate to either less work or lower pay, not a good thing for EE drivers who already find it hard enough putting a crust on the table. As an example my sister in laws brother who drives for Sajco Trans SRL earns less than 4000 leu (RON) per month and thats with bonuses…So the same thing that they done to Western European international hauliers.
Thats business. It costs far less to fuel/insure/tax an EE truck, correspondingly wages are lower/ cost of living and conditions lower. If UK hauliers want to compete they need to get themselves over here instead of staying on the little island whinging about it, cabotage isnt selective and the allowed three movements in a week would see anyone busy throughout the week…
So the Hauliers can do it, but they couldn’t employ a driver on Western European wages and still compete.
Harry Monk:
AndrewG:
Thats business. It costs far less to fuel/insure/tax an EE truck, correspondingly wages are lower/ cost of living and conditions lower. If UK hauliers want to compete they need to get themselves over here instead of staying on the little island whinging about it, cabotage isnt selective and the allowed three movements in a week would see anyone busy throughout the week…Only if they wanted to run around on eastern European rates while having to pay western European costs.
I’d guess AndrewG means flagging out which would mean a UK,but East Euro based,operation and therefore subject to an East Euro cost base.In which case it’s anyone’s guess how that is supposedly good for UK drivers.In this case it’s the single transport market which is the problem.Therefore trying to deal with the symptoms,in the form of where weekly rest periods are taken,is no substitute for getting rid of the cause. 
Harry Monk:
AndrewG:
Thats business. It costs far less to fuel/insure/tax an EE truck, correspondingly wages are lower/ cost of living and conditions lower. If UK hauliers want to compete they need to get themselves over here instead of staying on the little island whinging about it, cabotage isnt selective and the allowed three movements in a week would see anyone busy throughout the week…Only if they wanted to run around on eastern European rates while having to pay western European costs.
No thanks I don’t realy want to live in Eastern Europe it’s bad enough working in area that is a Romanian/African ghetto.
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
AndrewG:
Thats business. It costs far less to fuel/insure/tax an EE truck, correspondingly wages are lower/ cost of living and conditions lower. If UK hauliers want to compete they need to get themselves over here instead of staying on the little island whinging about it, cabotage isnt selective and the allowed three movements in a week would see anyone busy throughout the week…Only if they wanted to run around on eastern European rates while having to pay western European costs.
I’d guess AndrewG means flagging out which would mean a UK,but East Euro based,operation and therefore subject to an East Euro cost base.In which case it’s anyone’s guess how that is supposedly good for UK drivers.In this case it’s the single transport market which is the problem.Therefore trying to deal with the symptoms,in the form of where weekly rest periods are taken,is no substitute for getting rid of the cause.
No it’s not but it’s a small start at doing something
What happens if you live in the truck 50 weeks of the year like Switchlogic used to do.
kr79:
Carryfast:
I’d guess AndrewG means flagging out which would mean a UK,but East Euro based,operation and therefore subject to an East Euro cost base.In which case it’s anyone’s guess how that is supposedly good for UK drivers.In this case it’s the single transport market which is the problem.Therefore trying to deal with the symptoms,in the form of where weekly rest periods are taken,is no substitute for getting rid of the cause.No it’s not but it’s a small start at doing something
As it stands I can see mainly one of two scenarios.East euro based operations working on a two weekly trunking or possibly curtailed tramping/cabotage basis.More west euro based trunking or similarly curtailed tramping operations but still using east euro labour.
IE realistically it’s probably at best a win win of better working conditions for the East Euro drivers in the form of more time at home and less tramping around Europe to/from place to place for week after week on end.But with nothing to be gained for our own bearing in mind that cheaper labour costs will probably be even more of a factor to offset any higher costs caused by the change in operational requirements.
fingermissing:
What happens if you live in the truck 50 weeks of the year like Switchlogic used to do.
You will have a weekend away every fortnight although as digital tachos only record country of starting or stopping as long as you had your 45 in the country of registration it would be impossible to prove you was in the truck unless you was in observed on your break
What a mess is all i can say. Caused by the greed of multi national companies, this is what they wanted. The eu only worked with the original countrys, eastern countrys shud never have been allowed in. If you listen to these ee citizens they blame citizens from the other ee countrys for the problems, the reality is there all the problem, not started by them but the muti nationals and corrupt politicains.
^^^
Absolutely bang on. I could give a flying ■■■■ if it costs haulage companies a lot of money in hotel bills. Nor do I care if my weekly food bill goes up by £10 as a result, it will go up that much soon enough anyway, but that will be to preserve some multinational’s profit margin. If these hauliers are so timid that they can’t use the same excuse to put their own rates up, then they should give up and follow Candide’s example by cultivating their garden.
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem. Expensive RFL and fuel, blame the UK govt for that one, we all know RFL isnt spent on the road infrastructure and tax on fuel is around 80%, time to haul the UK govt over the coals, its certainly not the fault of some BG/HU/PL/RO haulier. Banning EE trucks from UK roads eh? How about banning UK traffic from European roads, works both ways… 
AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem.
How can a western European driver pay western European housing costs on an eastern European wage? You might be prepared to work for buttons, it doesn’t mean the rest of us should have to.
AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem. Expensive RFL and fuel, blame the UK govt for that one, we all know RFL isnt spent on the road infrastructure and tax on fuel is around 80%, time to haul the UK govt over the coals, its certainly not the fault of some BG/HU/PL/RO haulier. Banning EE trucks from UK roads eh? How about banning UK traffic from European roads, works both ways…
For a start this is not a UK thing, its an EU thing that the French and Belgium’s have been operating for a few years.
And what about the German, French, Belgium, Dutch, Swedish, Danish and now even some Spanish fleets who have either flagged their trucks and drivers out to EE or use East European hauliers to pull their trailers, I suppose that’s because of RFL and Fuel prices in the UK?
AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem. Expensive RFL and fuel, blame the UK govt for that one, we all know RFL isnt spent on the road infrastructure and tax on fuel is around 80%, time to haul the UK govt over the coals, its certainly not the fault of some BG/HU/PL/RO haulier. Banning EE trucks from UK roads eh? How about banning UK traffic from European roads, works both ways…
Tax from fuel and RFL isn’t ring fenced for road related projects, it’s true- it goes into the general tax pot to help fund hospitals schools unemployment social funding etc etc.
Paying taxes due is part of being a part of society. We can read the bad cases highlighted in the Red Tops about scroungers, and moan about how much we’re paying, but mostly it’s well spent. Evade taxes on fuel and you’re taking pay from nurses. Don’t pay unemployment because one or two are lazy tossers and you’ll deny hrlp to those who want to work. Do you think UK employers should drive down our wages so they can compete? They could decrease pay bills if they decrease pay and pensions and sick cover. No thank you. The race to the bottom is going fast enough already.
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Harry Monk:
AndrewG:
As i already mentioned earlier its purely business and if UK hauliers cant/wont compete its their problem.How can a western European driver pay western European housing costs on an eastern European wage? You might be prepared to work for buttons, it doesn’t mean the rest of us should have to.
i wont mention what i earn but certainly dont work for buttons… 