45 hour rest

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

euromat:

macplaxton:

euromat:
have you got a link to that bit of law harry?

Have a look at Article 8 in EC 561/2006 (look it up) and also the link I posted earlier. It’s worded saying you can take a daily or reduced weekly in a suitably equiped vehicle. Doesn’t say anything about a regular weekly.

so it doesnt say anything about NOT being allowed to take a 45 in a truck then, so how is it illegal?

Something does not have to be stated as not being allowed when what is allowed is specified in a particular situation.

If Article 8(8) said Where a driver chooses to do this, rest periods may be taken in a vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each driver and the vehicle is stationary, then there would be no problem, all rest periods could be taken in a vehicle.

However the actual wording is, Where a driver chooses to do this, daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in a vehicle, as long as it has suitable sleeping facilities for each driver and the vehicle is stationary. It specifies that daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods away from base may be taken in the vehicle and any other rest period not listed therefore cannot be taken in a vehicle. That means all regular weekly rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods at base cannot be taken in a vehicle because they are not included in Article 8(8)

If you walked into a shop and there was a sign saying Where you choose to you may take 1 or 2 bottles of beer for free you couldn’t take 3 for free. The sign doesn’t actually say you cannot take three, or four, but it does state you can only take one or two so you know you cannot take more even though it isn’t stated on the sign. That is exactly the same as Article 8(8), it states you can take daily rest periods and reduced weekly rest periods away from base in the vehicle - that would be the one or two bottles of beer - and therefore you cannot take regular weekly rest periods or reduced weekly rest periods at base in the vehicle - that would be 3 or 4 bottles of beer. :smiley:

42

I can clearly see what the rules state. Enforcement on the ground is another thing. As that TRACE report suggests, the issue is clouded slightly as to what the driver is doing.

E.g. If a vehicle is parked up for say 50 hours, what is the driver doing?

a) taking a regular weekly rest period? (Taking 3 or 4 bottles of beer)
b) taking a reduced weekly rest period of 44h 59m and also compensating for an earlier reduced weekly? (Taking 1 or 2 bottles of beer twice) :laughing:

43
  1. Where is this shop that allows 2 free bottles of beer.
  2. Am i allowed to take tomorrows quota…today ie 4 bottles but 2 in advance. :laughing:

Thanks for the clarification coffee, i thought it needed to be put up on site, i think a lot of drivers are going to have to plan their journeys a lot better now, unless the EU politicians can stop them.

44

macplaxton:
b) taking a reduced weekly rest period of 44h 59m and also compensating for an earlier reduced weekly? (Taking 1 or 2 bottles of beer twice) :laughing:

you can’t legally take two reduced weekly rests in a row, now can you

45

Correct, but you might not have to take a 45, just getting one in if you can.

The point being, providing conditions are met, there are legit circumstances to be resting for 50h in a stationary lorry.

46

milodon:

macplaxton:
b) taking a reduced weekly rest period of 44h 59m and also compensating for an earlier reduced weekly? (Taking 1 or 2 bottles of beer twice) :laughing:

you can’t legally take two reduced weekly rests in a row, now can you

Yeah you can, you just can’t have two weeks with only reduced rest periods.

47

i think its one big grey area. you turn up to a factory in belgium on a friday to load only to find you cant until monday, and so therefore you cannot have a 45 hour break in the truck? no matter the outcome i dont think anything will change, companies will just find ways of getting the cheap drivers into the trucks perhaps with cheap flights, or the cost of everything will rocket when people cant have their cheap transport done by the likes of freja DSV etc

48

Coffeeholic:

milodon:

macplaxton:
b) taking a reduced weekly rest period of 44h 59m and also compensating for an earlier reduced weekly? (Taking 1 or 2 bottles of beer twice) :laughing:

you can’t legally take two reduced weekly rests in a row, now can you

Yeah you can, you just can’t have two weeks with only reduced rest periods.

Woot, Gandalf is back in the room! Greetings O hallowed one…

49

euromat:
i think its one big grey area. you turn up to a factory in belgium on a friday to load only to find you cant until monday, and so therefore you cannot have a 45 hour break in the truck? no matter the outcome i dont think anything will change, companies will just find ways of getting the cheap drivers into the trucks perhaps with cheap flights, or the cost of everything will rocket when people cant have their cheap transport done by the likes of freja DSV etc

I agree that it is a grey area, in fact I’ve stated before that I think the law was badly written in the first place and never intended to prohibit 45 hour rest periods being taken in the truck. Nevertheless, the law does say, by omission, that they can’t be.

I’d dispute the statement that prices would rocket if western firms regained western work. Suppose it cost £200 more to move a load of 12,000 bottles of wine, that would be less than 2p a bottle.

It will be interesting to see what happens though because if the Belgians manage to make it stick, I imagine the French will soon follow suit.

50

Harry Monk:
It will be interesting to see what happens though because if the Belgians manage to make it stick,

The report I was reading earlier, was that the Belgian authorities have enforced this rule in the past, but the fines were wildly variable (55 to 2400 EUR). This new approach is a standard 1800 EUR.

flash-transport.com/news/int … 1800_euros

Harry Monk:
I imagine the French will soon follow suit.

If you read the bottom of that report, you’ll see that they are already on the case, it’s in the final stages.

51

Any one in Belgium this weekend have any trouble
Or parked on a reduced and see them out checking if anyone in a 45

52

For reference here’s the Belgian Government statute amendment:

19 AVRIL 2014. – Arrêté royal modifiant l’arrêté royal du 19 juillet 2000 relatif à la perception et à la consignation d’une somme lors de la constatation de certaines infractions en matière de transport par route

PHILIPPE, Roi des Belges,
A tous, présents et à venir, Salut.

Vu la loi du 18 février 1969 relative aux mesures d’exécution des traités et actes internationaux en matière de transport par mer, par route, par chemin de fer ou par voie navigable, l’article 2bis, inséré par la loi du 6 mai 1985;
Vu la loi du 3 mai 1999 relative au transport de choses par route, l’article 34;
Vu l’arrêté royal du 19 juillet 2000 relatif à la perception et à la consignation d’une somme lors de la constatation de certaines infractions en matière de transport par route;
Vu l’association des Gouvernements de Région;
Vu l’avis de l’Inspecteur des Finances, donné le 25 février 2014;

Vu l’accord du Ministre du Budget, donné le 25 février 2014;

Vu l’avis 55.587/4 du Conseil d’Etat, donné le 24 mars 2014, en application de l’article 84, § 1er, alinéa 1er, 2°, des lois sur le Conseil d’Etat, coordonnées le 12 janvier 1973;
Considérant que la lutte contre le dumping social en matière de transport routier se concrétise notamment par l’alourdissement de certaines peines;
Sur la proposition du Ministre de l’Intérieur, du Ministre de la Justice, du Ministre des Finances et du Secrétaire d’Etat à la Mobilité,

Nous avons arrêté et arrêtons :

Article 1er. A l’annexe 1re de l’arrêté royal du 19 juillet 2000 relatif à la perception et à la consignation d’une somme lors de la constatation de certaines infractions en matière de transport par route, remplacé par l’arrêté royal du 19 juillet 2013, sous b) Transport de marchandises par route — lettre de voiture, 1., le montant « 55 EUR » est remplacé par « 1.500 EUR ».

Art. 2. L’appendice 1er de l’annexe 1redu même arrêté, c) Temps de conduite et de repos est complété par un point 8 rédigé comme suit :

«8. Le temps de repos hebdomadaire normal,obligatoire au moment du contrôle, est pris à bord du véhicule.

  • règlement (CE) N° 561/2006, art. 8. 6 et 8.8.
  • AETR, art. 8.

1.800 EUR »

Art. 3. Le ministre qui a l’Intérieur dans ses attributions, le ministre qui a la Justice dans ses attributions, le ministre qui a les Finances dans ses attributions et le ministre qui a le Transport routier dans ses attributions, sont chargés, chacun en ce qui le concerne, de l’exécution du présent arrêté.

Donné à Bruxelles, le 19 avril 2014.

PHILIPPE

Par le Roi :

La Ministre de l’Intérieur,
Mme J. MILQUET

La Ministre de la Justice,
Mme A. TURTELBOOM

Le Ministre des Finances,
K. GEENS

Le Secrétaire d’Etat à la Mobilité,
M. WATHELET

Google-mangled the 3 amendments as:

Article 1. On the 1st Schedule of the Royal Decree of 19 July 2000 relating to the collection and deposit of a sum in recognition of certain offences relating to road transport replaced by the Royal Decree of 19 July 2013 b) Transport of goods by road -. consignment 1, the amount “55 EUR” is replaced by “€ 1,500”.

Art. . 2 Appendix 1 of Annex 1 of the same decree, c) driving time and rest is supplemented by a 8 reads as follows:

"8. The regular weekly rest required when control is taken on board the vehicle.
- Regulation (EC) No 561/2006, Art. 8. 6 and 8.8.
- ERTA art. 8.
€ 1,800 "

Art. , 3. The minister of interior affairs within its remit the Minister responsible for justice in his portfolio the Minister responsible for Finance in his duties and the minister has the Road Transport in its attributions are responsible , each in his case, the implementation of this Order.

53

Well if they do roll this out across the EU you can bet your bottom dollar that Britain will fully embrace and police this. It does however make me wonder how VOSA/DVSA will react when they park Jonny up for 45 hours as they regularly do.

54

Harry Monk:

milodon:
that’s nice, I’m sure the good people living across the border from belgium in lille, aachen, breda, luxembourg etc etc will only appreciate the multitudes of extra lorrys spending the weekend in their respective countries from now on, instead of somewhere in belgium. chaos will ensue and this little political exercise will have been forgotten about come fall.

Maybe, or maybe France, the Netherlands and the whole of western Europe will say “we’ve had enough of the invasion too” and we can go back to western European work being done by western European trucks. It’s a daydream, I know.

No offence to you personally Milodon, but life was better for UK truck drivers before eastern European labour arrived here en masse to halve our wages.

I think life was better for most blue collar british workers before

55

kr79:

Harry Monk:
‘… life was better for UK truck drivers before eastern European labour arrived here en masse to halve our wages…’

‘… I think life was better for most blue collar british workers before …’

1 Where does that leave Tony Blair’s assertion that ‘diversity is [zb] brilliant’?

2 If that dictated sentiment is not so, what can be done to restore the status quo whereby Britain/UK should be run by British/UK subjects for British/UK benefit?

3 Is an advocate for better UK living conditions and reduced sensation of disenfranchisation for those hitherto having a UK national identity:

a A scared bigot?

b A submissive patriot?

4 Meanwhile, when can the UK expect these homecoming chickens to be denied & dismissed as nonsense by Brussels in order for it to further federalise us?

So many Q’s and so little political appetite amongst the spoon-fed, EU led and sponsored electorate to do squat about it, methinks :wink:

56

macplaxton:

euromat:
have you got a link to that bit of law harry?

Have a look at Article 8 in EC 561/2006 (look it up) and also the link I posted earlier. It’s worded saying you can take a daily or reduced weekly in a suitably equiped vehicle. Doesn’t say anything about a regular weekly.

So is this how the EU works making rules by omission, if its not written down any where its illegal, this can’t be right, its not written that I can (zb) my wife every week so is that illegal to, this is becoming a farce and as for the French putting this in to law can you see the French drivers accepting this with out a fight… not on your life.

Ossie

57

The bit i mentioned about No Hotels was in fact meant to be interpreted as a driver cannot park his truck up and stay in a hotel for a 45, i believe that what it actually means is `We dont want you parking here in Belgium full stop. and if you do, you can pay 1800 euros for the privelage.

I have sent 3 e.mails concerning this Belgium outrage, 1. To Tracy Crouch my local mp 2. The dept for transport. 3. The European mep. So once i get a response, i will post.

I did mention the what if France reacts the same way, where will we park, how to pay the fines for going over the said hours etc.
And i did mention the fact also that France wants to give the Immigrants in Calais asylum, thats to allow them to travel freely to the uk, and gets them off of their backs…problem solved…

58

Happy Keith:

kr79:

Harry Monk:
‘… life was better for UK truck drivers before eastern European labour arrived here en masse to halve our wages…’

‘… I think life was better for most blue collar british workers before …’

1 Where does that leave Tony Blair’s assertion that ‘diversity is [zb] brilliant’?

2 If that dictated sentiment is not so, what can be done to restore the status quo whereby Britain/UK should be run by British/UK subjects for British/UK benefit?

3 Is an advocate for better UK living conditions and reduced sensation of disenfranchisation for those hitherto having a UK national identity:

a A scared bigot?

b A submissive patriot?

We have a better choice when we eat out. Blair is a meglomaniac with a messiah complex though.
4 Meanwhile, when can the UK expect these homecoming chickens to be denied & dismissed as nonsense by Brussels in order for it to further federalise us?

So many Q’s and so little political appetite amongst the spoon-fed, EU led and sponsored electorate to do squat about it, methinks :wink:

59

Harry Monk:

MisterStrood:
It will affect all. Us too. British in Belgium will be treated the same as Bulgarian. Belgian as well.

British and Belgian hauliers do not generally have a business model which involves keeping drivers away from home for months at a time. I’m sure that if you conducted a poll among eastern European drivers weekending in western Europe, asking them if they would rather be at home once a fortnight, the overwhelming majority would say yes. I’ve spoken to numerous eastern European drivers over the years, and homesickness is a regular theme among them.

Though it may happen to some that they may need to stay in that country. Lets say on the way back from somewhere they run out of time/ daily rest and were forced to park up. Do not say that western country drivers do not go abroad and sleep in their cabs as they do.
I can see your point of view but can you see mine ?

60

I’m not sure it’s really about ee drivers holed up on all the services not spending money but a way of screwing all the Belgian firms that have flagged all there trucks out to other countries and still doing the same work in and out of Belgium. Have a look next time you are in Belgium at how few Belgian firms are still on Belgian plates very few apart from the smaller trucks all gone to RO CZ BG . It’s a small country of around 9m people and only around 2m of them are Belgian