Hypothetical question: you get back into your yard towards the end of your shift with 2 minutes to spare before over-running the 4.5 hours driving time limit. There’s a queue to get on a bay and you’ve still got to put your unit to bed.
Do you:
A: park up and wait 45 mins before getting back in the queue.
B: park up, eject the card and then get back in the queue with no card
C: park up eject card and get someone else to finish the job
Do you get paid overtime?
Legal answer = A or C depending on whether hourly paid or not, how much you want the extra cash or you would rather get off home.
Note. The RWA* my differ from the above. However your home may be at risk if you lose your licence, receive a large fine or prison term as a result and/or fail to keep up repayments. At all times please spare a thought for the next generation. Answers may go up as well as down. This answer was previously available at full price during December 2011. At the end of the journey please return the stewardess to an upright position.
*Real World Answer
oakeedokee:
Hypothetical question: you get back into your yard towards the end of your shift with 2 minutes to spare before over-running the 4.5 hours driving time limit. There’s a queue to get on a bay and you’ve still got to put your unit to bed.
Do you:
A: park up and wait 45 mins before getting back in the queue.
B: park up, eject the card and then get back in the queue with no card
C: park up eject card and get someone else to finish the job
I suppose this will depend on your employers attitude towards unaccounted for time on the tachograph and how soon you want to get finished, but my preference would probably be:
- C (If possible and practical)
- B
- A
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.
If the answer is C, as I understand it, the new driver would not need to insert a card. true?
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.
B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
oakeedokee:
If the answer is C, as I understand it, the new driver would not need to insert a card. true?
Legally yes he would need to insert a card, unless it was the yard shunter who did it.
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.
If the answer is C, as I understand it, the new driver would not need to insert a card. true?
B) Moving the vehicle to the bay and unloading it would be part of the same journey and classed as driving for the tachograph regulations, the fact that you’d taken the card out would be irrelevant.
C) Someone who had done no driving on public roads that day would not need to use the tachograph as he/she would be exempt.
tachograph:
C) Someone who had done no driving on public roads that day would not need to use the tachograph as he/she would be exempt.
But if they then went out on the road that day they should make a manual entry to record it.
Coffeeholic:
Legal answer = A or C depending on whether hourly paid or not, how much you want the extra cash or you would rather get off home.Note. The RWA* my differ from the above. However your home may be at risk if you lose your licence, receive a large fine or prison term as a result and/or fail to keep up repayments. At all times please spare a thought for the next generation. Answers may go up as well as down. This answer was previously available at full price during December 2011. At the end of the journey please return the stewardess to an upright position.
*Real World Answer
Love it!
oakeedokee:
Hypothetical question: you get back into your yard towards the end of your shift with 2 minutes to spare before over-running the 4.5 hours driving time limit. There’s a queue to get on a bay and you’ve still got to put your unit to bed.
Do you:
A: park up and wait 45 mins before getting back in the queue.
B: park up, eject the card and then get back in the queue with no card
C: park up eject card and get someone else to finish the job
This happened to me a month ago and my answer was C.
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.
B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit. 
ShropsBri:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit.
What are you on about, the driver could pull into the Q, take his card out then a yard boy could then carry on then tip the load and be legal.
Why cant the driver do it??
weeto:
ShropsBri:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit.What are you on about, the driver could pull into the Q, take his card out then a yard boy could then carry on then tip the load and be legal.
Why cant the driver do it??
Because the driver is obliged to keep a full record of his day and by not recording this work he would be creating a false record. Big fine and where hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.
Coffeeholic:
weeto:
ShropsBri:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit.What are you on about, the driver could pull into the Q, take his card out then a yard boy could then carry on then tip the load and be legal.
Why cant the driver do it??Because the driver is obliged to keep a full record of his day and by not recording this work he would be creating a false record. Big fine and where hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.
So cant he record it as other time?
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
weeto:
ShropsBri:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit.What are you on about, the driver could pull into the Q, take his card out then a yard boy could then carry on then tip the load and be legal.
Why cant the driver do it??Because the driver is obliged to keep a full record of his day and by not recording this work he would be creating a false record. Big fine and where hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.
So cant he record it as other time?
He could. But if he was only going to be doing other work there would be no need to take the card out and he could just let it record as normal. Recording driving as other work by means of a manual entry is still creating a false record and it would be so obvious it would not require Basil the Great Mouse Detective to catch him.
Coffeeholic:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
weeto:
ShropsBri:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit.What are you on about, the driver could pull into the Q, take his card out then a yard boy could then carry on then tip the load and be legal.
Why cant the driver do it??Because the driver is obliged to keep a full record of his day and by not recording this work he would be creating a false record. Big fine and where hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.
So cant he record it as other time?
He could. But if he was only going to be doing other work there would be no need to take the card out and he could just let it record as normal. Recording driving as other work by means of a manual entry is still creating a false record and it would be so obvious it would not require Basil the Great Mouse Detective to catch him.
Ok
Could I just ask, do you know why out of scope driving was removed from the driving rules?
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
weeto:
ShropsBri:
weeto:
Coffeeholic:
oakeedokee:
So what are the legalities of B? If parking up is considered to be the end of the journey, then the next journey, i.e. to the loading bay etc. could be considered a separate journey taking place wholly off road and therefore falling outside the scope of eu tacho regs. I suppose it depends on the legal definition of a journey.B would be falsifying tacho records, that’s potentially about £5000 and/or a 2 year jail term
And thats a joke, because an unlicenced person could take the vehicle over and be completly legal…
But he wouldn’t be unlicened would he…If a licence isn’t needed then can you be unlicenced?
It’s a conundrum innit.What are you on about, the driver could pull into the Q, take his card out then a yard boy could then carry on then tip the load and be legal.
Why cant the driver do it??Because the driver is obliged to keep a full record of his day and by not recording this work he would be creating a false record. Big fine and where hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.
So cant he record it as other time?
He could. But if he was only going to be doing other work there would be no need to take the card out and he could just let it record as normal. Recording driving as other work by means of a manual entry is still creating a false record and it would be so obvious it would not require Basil the Great Mouse Detective to catch him.
Ok
Could I just ask, do you know why out of scope driving was removed from the driving rules?
Not sure. Probably due to abuse of it.
Coffeeholic:
hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.
Coffe, whats a “time bar”? Nothing to do with dime bars I’d guess.
Is it the maximum age of the offence you can be fined for?
Gembo:
Coffeeholic:
hours offences have a time bar of six months falsification is much longer.Coffe, whats a “time bar”? Nothing to do with dime bars I’d guess.
Is it the maximum age of the offence you can be fined for?
Yeah pretty much, counting from the day after the offence occurred.