3a and 3b explained

NEW AND WANNABE DRIVERS (INTERACTIVE)
1

So here we go. Firstly, a brief history. The driving test has always been conducted by DVSA at approved sites. Most of these sites are operated by DVSA whilst others (including mine at PSTT) is known as a “customer site” where the examiners visit and conduct the tests from the training centre.

2021 has seen huge pressure on tests. Much of this is COVID related whilst some is historical short supply. Add to this the surge in demand caused by the driver shortage and it’s a perfect storm. Much as folk love to knock organisations like DVSA, they should be congratulated on their efforts in talking with the leaders in the training industry to arrive at solutions. I have been privileged to be party to the discussions. I dont agree with all the measures taken, but at least there is a will to get stuff done.

One of the solutions is to remove the requirement for staged training. This only came in during 1997 in response to EU. It has always been farcical in my view as there is no evidence of driving a C required before being eligible to move on to CE. So, finally, common sense has prevailed and that nonsense has been dispensed with. It remains as an option who are more comfortable doing C before CE and I imagine most trainers will be able to offer this.

This measure will produce many thousands of test appointments - and that’s got to be good.

The second measure is the ability for trainers to test the reverse and uncouple/recouple as appropriate. To achieve this, the trainer has to pass an online assessment of his knowledge and judgement. Then the organisation has to pass tests to demonstrate it can operate the system securely and maintain integrity. But none of this matters unless there is a properly surfaced, permanently marked reversing area. I conducted the first reversing (3a) test yesterday and it went without hitch - as expected.

The important thing for candidates to realise is that, if your test is booked for Nov 29th or beyond, you MUST have passed your 3a test before you can take your driving test (3b). The driving test will be solely onroad + safety questions.

It is a matter of great concern to me that many trainers dont appear to know about this.

Up till 29th, the test will run as normal (the whole thing at the same time). There is an option to do 3a first with a provider. If you do this and pass, simply produce the pass certificate to the examiner at the start of the test and that section wont be retested. But this is for a very limited transitional period.

So, in summary: 3a is the off road section of the test and can be conducted by approved trainers OR by DVSA. There is a fee of £40 applicable. 3b is the on road section of the test and will be conducted by a DVSA examiner either at a DVSA centre or at one of the many customer sites.

I am connected to PSTT near Mansfield. As an organisation, the directors have decided to offer a testing facility to other trainers who maybe aren’t able (for whatever reason) to offer it to their candidates. The fee remains the same and no-one is trying to earn a quick buck.

I am happy to answer questions. If you’re going to comment, please ensure it is factual.

Good luck all, Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

2

Pete S:
So, in summary: 3a is the off road section of the test and can be conducted by approved trainers OR by DVSA. There is a fee of £40 applicable. 3b is the on road section of the test and will be conducted by a DVSA examiner either at a DVSA centre or at one of the many customer sites.

So if 3a is £40 how much is 3b now :question:

3

ROG:

Pete S:
So, in summary: 3a is the off road section of the test and can be conducted by approved trainers OR by DVSA. There is a fee of £40 applicable. 3b is the on road section of the test and will be conducted by a DVSA examiner either at a DVSA centre or at one of the many customer sites.

So if 3a is £40 how much is 3b now :question:

I’d bet still £115. Happy to be wrong in this instance though

4

I’d bet still £115. Happy to be wrong in this instance though

I’m sorry. You’re not wrong. £115 for 3b + £40 for 3a. So, in effect, the driving test fee has just increased by £40!

Different trainers will establish their method of dealing with this. In the case of PSTT, nobody already booked will be asked for an additional £40. The directors have decided to swallow this in the name of goodwill. But inevitably, it will be passed on to new bookings.

Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

5

So for those training schools who use “SPARE LAND” to practice reverse won’t be able to offer the candidates 3a?.

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6

Correct

Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

7

Pete S:
(3a) test yesterday and it went without hitch -

Shouldn’t that have been a failure then?

8

Can you do 3a then wait a bit before doing they ce training

9

Pete S:
So here we go. Firstly, a brief history. The driving test has always been conducted by DVSA at approved sites. Most of these sites are operated by DVSA whilst others (including mine at PSTT)
I am connected to PSTT near Mansfield. As an organisation, the directors have decided to offer a testing facility to other trainers who maybe aren’t able (for whatever reason) to offer it to their candidates. The fee remains the same and no-one is trying to earn a quick buck.

Very generous offer.

10

For me it makes sense to make the reverse and uncouple / recouple a standalone event, regardless of who examines it. Or at the very least if a pass in that aspect had been achieved, not to return to it at a subsequent examination within a period of time. Similarly a pass on the road should have been a pass on the road, not to be returned to no matter how the reverse went.

I don’t quite agree with training providers being lumbered with it. Surely it was just a case of examiner capacity. The government shouldn’t have stopped LGV examinations for Covid because of the link with vital supply chains. Also, some driving schools probably struggled to stay afloat during that time, so what about the effect on training capacity? Then the situation could have been resolved with a slight increase in examiner capacity through recruitment. The change to the reverse and uncouple / recouple being separate could have been implemented years ago.

It remains to be seen how happy the examiners are about fitting another test in. There was talk of industrial action, but that was called off the last thing I heard. Changes like this require consultation. It all seemed a bit inevitable, as I posted in the main forum as soon as LGV tests were cancelled. Now retirements have gone ahead and there is a massive hole. Why would Grant Shapps and co wait until the Haribo sweeties weren’t getting through before thinking about the dearth of drivers? If you stop tests, that is tens of thousands of drivers simply not there. Very very basic stuff. I’m not being wise after the event because I posted it in the main forum at the end of March 2020. If a relatively obtuse driver can identify the issue, why can’t a government department?

11

chrisg1000:
Can you do 3a then wait a bit before doing they ce training

You have 6 months from passing the 3a test to pass your 3b test. If you don’t pass within 6 months you’ll need to do the 3a test again.

12

Pete S:
So here we go. Firstly, a brief history. The driving test has always been conducted by DVSA at approved sites. Most of these sites are operated by DVSA whilst others (including mine at PSTT) is known as a “customer site” where the examiners visit and conduct the tests from the training centre.

2021 has seen huge pressure on tests. Much of this is COVID related whilst some is historical short supply. Add to this the surge in demand caused by the driver shortage and it’s a perfect storm. Much as folk love to knock organisations like DVSA, they should be congratulated on their efforts in talking with the leaders in the training industry to arrive at solutions. I have been privileged to be party to the discussions. I dont agree with all the measures taken, but at least there is a will to get stuff done.

One of the solutions is to remove the requirement for staged training. This only came in during 1997 in response to EU. It has always been farcical in my view as there is no evidence of driving a C required before being eligible to move on to CE. So, finally, common sense has prevailed and that nonsense has been dispensed with. It remains as an option who are more comfortable doing C before CE and I imagine most trainers will be able to offer this.

This measure will produce many thousands of test appointments - and that’s got to be good.

The second measure is the ability for trainers to test the reverse and uncouple/recouple as appropriate. To achieve this, the trainer has to pass an online assessment of his knowledge and judgement. Then the organisation has to pass tests to demonstrate it can operate the system securely and maintain integrity. But none of this matters unless there is a properly surfaced, permanently marked reversing area. I conducted the first reversing (3a) test yesterday and it went without hitch - as expected.

The important thing for candidates to realise is that, if your test is booked for Nov 29th or beyond, you MUST have passed your 3a test before you can take your driving test (3b). The driving test will be solely onroad + safety questions.

It is a matter of great concern to me that many trainers dont appear to know about this.

Up till 29th, the test will run as normal (the whole thing at the same time). There is an option to do 3a first with a provider. If you do this and pass, simply produce the pass certificate to the examiner at the start of the test and that section wont be retested. But this is for a very limited transitional period.

So, in summary: 3a is the off road section of the test and can be conducted by approved trainers OR by DVSA. There is a fee of £40 applicable. 3b is the on road section of the test and will be conducted by a DVSA examiner either at a DVSA centre or at one of the many customer sites.

I am connected to PSTT near Mansfield. As an organisation, the directors have decided to offer a testing facility to other trainers who maybe aren’t able (for whatever reason) to offer it to their candidates. The fee remains the same and no-one is trying to earn a quick buck.

I am happy to answer questions. If you’re going to comment, please ensure it is factual.

Good luck all, Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

I have my training week and test booked in for the end of Jan, this will all arranged a few weeks ago (before the rule changes) will everything still be going ahead the same for me as I have around a 4.5hr drive to get to the school :slight_smile: All my theories are passed, I’m under the impression I just complete the practical side and be on my way, am I wrong?

13

I have my training week and test booked in for the end of Jan, this will all arranged a few weeks ago (before the rule changes) will everything still be going ahead the same for me as I have around a 4.5hr drive to get to the school :slight_smile: All my theories are passed, I’m under the impression I just complete the practical side and be on my way, am I wrong?

Hi. Not quite enough information in the question for me to answer thoroughly. But I’ll do my best with what I can see. I’ll assume the booking is with PSTT and answer on that basis. If it is another trainer, you must contact them.

In any case, you will have to pass 3a reverse (+ uncouple/recouple if you’re doing CE) before you can take 3b which is the on road test conducted by a DVSA examiner. With a 4.5hr drive, you’re not likely to complete 3a much before your course. (If you want to do the travelling, then it can be made to happen). Assuming that you arrive for your course and you haven’t completed 3a, this will be sorted early on in your training, tested and got out of the way.

It is likely that your 3b test appointment may change for anything up to an hour. But that’s nothing to worry about. In the case of PSTT, it makes little difference as the training centre doubles up as the test centre ie no travelling to test. If it’s another trainer, it’s a question worth asking.

If you already hold a driver cpc, there’s nothing to do there. If you dont, then Mod 2 should already have been passed so that you can complete Mod 4 during the same week as your practical training.

I hope this helps. If you are dealing with PSTT, you’re welcome to contact me again - either on the forum or pm. You could also call the office 01623 555661. The staff are doing their best to keep up with all the changes - but it’s a real challenge!

Pete S :laughing: :laughing:

14

My question is, will PSTT be the 1st training school in the UK to complete a car to artic student pass since the new changes came in…its looking highly likely at the minute. [emoji16][emoji16]

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15

My question is, will PSTT be the 1st training school in the UK to complete a car to artic student pass since the new changes came in…its looking highly likely at the minute.

I really dont know. And no real way of knowing. I’ve got one booked for mid Dec that I’m doing myself.

Difficult as all the vehicles were already fully booked into the New Year. I’ve got this one as a trainer is having a few days off. So I’ve nicked his truck haha!

Pete S :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: