F-reds:
peter1974:
The combined train weight was 6430kg.
none of the axles were overweight and the second axle was only 2250kg,so i still had 150kg to play with.Although i was fined after much argument as the truck was 3860kg and the trailer 2570kg.
I was always led to believe and still do that when towing as long as the axles are ok and your under the GTW it doesn’t matter where the weight is.
Just because you’ve got a trailer on doesn’t mean you can ignore the GVW of part of the combination surely■■?
I always believed you could,thats why you have a GTW as well,as long as the axles were within their weight limits.
An example would be.
If you load the towing vehicle 3500kg and trailer 3000kg,when you hitch the trailer up there is a 100-150kg weight transfer to the towing vehicle.How are you supposed to balance this.
Do you then overload the trailer to allow for the transfer of weight between the train.
Those figures are worrisome. A quick Google shows that the kerb weight of a Prius is around 1315kg, so using your 3860kg weight, that means whatever else was on the truck (ie fuel, driver, tools, noseweight of trailer, anything in the Prius) leaves a margin for the kerb weight of the transported car as 955kg (to stick within 3500kg GVW). I guess someone filled the Prius with loads of other stuff, and/or you were carrying a lot of tools, and/or the noseweight was quite high etc etc??
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What model Prius did you Google,you are aware that there are lots of different models.It was a Japanese import Prius,my paperwork stated the weight at 1470,or around that figure.
F-reds:
peter1974:
The combined train weight was 6430kg.
none of the axles were overweight and the second axle was only 2250kg,so i still had 150kg to play with.Although i was fined after much argument as the truck was 3860kg and the trailer 2570kg.
I was always led to believe and still do that when towing as long as the axles are ok and your under the GTW it doesn’t matter where the weight is.
Just because you’ve got a trailer on doesn’t mean you can ignore the GVW of part of the combination surely■■?
Both the towing vehicle and trailer have to stay within their seperate max permitted plated weights.Which is why I said GTW has the advantage that no weight transfer takes place between trailer and towing vehicle.
Although how a 3.5 tonner can be loaded to 3.8t but with the rear axle still under its max and no over load on the front axle is anyone’s guess.IE max permitted gross,let alone over,can only be the combined permissable max weight of both front and rear axles.IE If one axle is under at max gvw that can only logically mean that the other is over. 
Having said that the type of real world nose weights which I’ve referred to might explain a fully freighted trailer showing less weight than expected on the trailer and more on the towing vehicle.But that ‘should’ obviously mean a relatively heavy rear axle on the towing vehicle. Which as I’ve said is always one of the flaws in the close coupled ( GCW ) configuration v A frame ( GTW ).
Its easy,you tick the option for a heavy duty rear axle,my trucks axle weights are front 2100kg and rear 2400kg.I can load a car on backwards with the engine way out beyond the rear axle and still not be overloaded.
Carryfast the combined axle weights of any truck or van I have ever driven has always been more than the GVW, because otherwise you would need to balance a max weight payload at the perfect point, to avoid overloading any one axle. 
In reference to the OP’s question about the 150kg weight transfer into the towing vehicle, it can’t be “free” can it? I think your wallet found that out 
No, you under weight the towing vehicle by the transferable amount. So you would be at 3350kg and 3000kg. Unable to reach max GTW…
peter1974:
F-reds:
peter1974:
The combined train weight was 6430kg.
none of the axles were overweight and the second axle was only 2250kg,so i still had 150kg to play with.Although i was fined after much argument as the truck was 3860kg and the trailer 2570kg.
I was always led to believe and still do that when towing as long as the axles are ok and your under the GTW it doesn’t matter where the weight is.
Just because you’ve got a trailer on doesn’t mean you can ignore the GVW of part of the combination surely■■?
I always believed you could,thats why you have a GTW as well,as long as the axles were within their weight limits.
An example would be.
If you load the towing vehicle 3500kg and trailer 3000kg,when you hitch the trailer up there is a 100-150kg weight transfer to the towing vehicle.How are you supposed to balance this.
Do you then overload the trailer to allow for the transfer of weight between the train.
You can’t ‘balance’ it because it has to be there which is the definition of GCW.
If anything a 100-150 kgs nose weight is unrealistic in most cases and marginal regards stability.While removing the nose weight by whatever means will just make matters worse in that regard.Which just leaves the usual solution with close coupled outfits that the towing vehicle can’t run at max gross and nor can it run lighter than the gross weight of the trailer. 
F-reds:
Carryfast the combined axle weights of any truck or van I have ever driven has always been more than the GVW, because otherwise you would need to balance a max weight payload at the perfect point, to avoid overloading any one axle. .
The relevant bit being that you can’t use any ‘extra margin’ used on any axle without reducing it on others to meet the GVW in terms of the ‘combined’ axle weights.In which case if it was over GVW but under weight on the rear axle then it had to be over on the front axle in terms of ‘the combined’ figure.
F-reds:
In reference to the OP’s question about the 150kg weight transfer into the towing vehicle, it can’t be “free” can it? I think your wallet found that out No, you under weight the towing vehicle by the transferable amount. So you would be at 3350kg and 3000kg. Unable to reach max GTW…
That’s why I’ve said there should be two seperate figures with GTW actually being higher because in the case of A frames ( GTW ) both towing vehicle and trailer can be loaded to max with no weight transfer between them.Unlike close coupled trailers ( GCW )
But with a twin or triple axle trailer you can reduce the noseweight to 40-50kg and still retain good stability, in fact with car transporter trailers its pretty easy to distribute the load to exactly where you want the noseweight to be (because you can roll the car to the right place…assuming the deck length is long enough and you’re not dealing with an oddity such as a car with no engine, or a very long car).
My main concern is that if you’re dealing with a 3.5t truck, then the weights are so marginal that in 2016, it really restricts the car you can put on the back. 20 years ago, a Passat weighed about 1200kg and it wasn’t an issue. Nowadays, a Ford Focus weighs 1400kg and it is.
Of course the simplest thing is to use a 4.0t, or 4.6t, or bigger truck but then you’re definitely into O-licence and tacho. If you’re towing anyway so you can do 2 cars at a time, you need those anyway so may as well just specify the heavier GVW from the outset (or upplate/modify your own). I dare say a lot of 3.5t recovery trucks are downplated/downrated 4.0t ones anyway.
Every BCA site that I go into is full of one-vehicle carrying transit type vans, so they must be making it pay.
The other thing that ive noticed about them is that I’ve normally put four on before they depart with their solitary vehicle, not a rush in them.
paul_c2:
But with a twin or triple axle trailer you can reduce the noseweight to 40-50kg and still retain good stability, in fact with car transporter trailers its pretty easy to distribute the load to exactly where you want the noseweight to be (because you can roll the car to the right place…assuming the deck length is long enough and you’re not dealing with an oddity such as a car with no engine, or a very long car).
My main concern is that if you’re dealing with a 3.5t truck, then the weights are so marginal that in 2016, it really restricts the car you can put on the back. 20 years ago, a Passat weighed about 1200kg and it wasn’t an issue. Nowadays, a Ford Focus weighs 1400kg and it is.
Of course the simplest thing is to use a 4.0t, or 4.6t, or bigger truck but then you’re definitely into O-licence and tacho. If you’re towing anyway so you can do 2 cars at a time, you need those anyway so may as well just specify the heavier GVW from the outset (or upplate/modify your own). I dare say a lot of 3.5t recovery trucks are downplated/downrated 4.0t ones anyway.
It’s easy to over estimate the difference between single/twin or even triple axle close coupled type regards stability and nose weights.IE the axles are all grouped around the centre of the trailer and low nose weight relative to gross trailer weight, combined with rear weight bias,can result in more or less similar stability issues,regards the tail wagging the dog,regardless of axle numbers.Realistically there’s no avoiding the fact that the close coupled configuration won’t allow for the towing vehicle to be loaded to max,so as to maintain optimum stability using realistic nose weights.It also can’t realistically be run at a lighter weight than the trailer.
In this case that’s then magnified by the conflict between realistic payload weights v gross vehicle weight and gross combination weight and maximum allowed towing weights in the case of vehicle and trailer outfits.
Which is why I said that ideally if it was me I’d go for the 7.5 tonner and A frame type trailer.Which as in all cases at every gross weight level is effectively over load proof and immune from tail wagging the dog issues.
F-reds:
peter1974:
The combined train weight was 6430kg.
none of the axles were overweight and the second axle was only 2250kg,so i still had 150kg to play with.Although i was fined after much argument as the truck was 3860kg and the trailer 2570kg.
I was always led to believe and still do that when towing as long as the axles are ok and your under the GTW it doesn’t matter where the weight is.
Just because you’ve got a trailer on doesn’t mean you can ignore the GVW of part of the combination surely■■?
Yes, you wouldn’t be able to just shove all the spare payload, from an empty van, onto the trailer if it took the trailer over 3.5t even if it was still within the GTW.
I suspect any artic or drawbar that’s not over the axle weight and under 44t all in would get waved on though.
Own Account Driver:
F-reds:
Just because you’ve got a trailer on doesn’t mean you can ignore the GVW of part of the combination surely■■?
Yes, you wouldn’t be able to just shove all the spare payload, from an empty van, onto the trailer if it took the trailer over 3.5t even if it was still within the GTW.
I suspect any artic or drawbar that’s not over the axle weight and under 44t all in would get waved on though.
I wouldn’t bet on it.Especially when VOSA see the easy nick of a typical van/truck and close coupled trailer outfit that’s likely to be over on both the rear axle ‘and’ GVW of the towing vehicle.Because of drivers being fooled into thinking that they can load both the prime mover and the trailer to their seperate max respective GVW’s.
As for artics they aren’t the same thing in that their GCW is totally dependent on the trailer weight and doesn’t involve two seperate load carrying vehicles.In addition to the trailer nose weight weight being super imposed on the unit between the rear and steer axle/s of the unit.
Well I weighed it all up and decided to give it a go and ended up buying a very lightweight Boxer 2.2 unladen weight of 1850kg which won’t be far off 2000kg with driver, winch and fuel so a 1500kg capacity which should be sufficient for now, I will weigh up whether to add a trailer and tacho in the future or move on to a larger vehicle and o licence but for now I’m happy.
You would need an o licence also to add a trailer.
MrH:
Well I weighed it all up and decided to give it a go and ended up buying a very lightweight Boxer 2.2 unladen weight of 1850kg which won’t be far off 2000kg with driver, winch and fuel so a 1500kg capacity which should be sufficient for now, I will weigh up whether to add a trailer and tacho in the future or move on to a larger vehicle and o licence but for now I’m happy.
Can I ask, where do you get the work from, ie is it consistent, loads of jobs to pick and choose from or a bit of a struggle? National or local stuff?
Work can be sourced through many motor trade contacts, I’m also lucky to have several major auction sites and also car transport companies nearby to source work from, then there are the websites for getting backloaded ect… You won’t get rich doing it but a reasonable living should be achievable.
MrH
Did you pursue this? and, if so, how are you getting on after 2 years?
I’ve started thinking of doing similar so would be interested in your views
Thanks in advance