One for the old timers on here.
When the speed limit for 6 and 8 wheelers was 20mph was this observed, were the trucks governed or was it basically ignored especially out with the cities?
To be fair there were none of the speed recording devices that existed later.Any offence would have been based entirely on police discretion from casual observation.Certainly don’t think that anyone would have been nicked for doing 20mph + 2% +1 which can happen now.
Also most trucks probably weren’t designed or geared to go fast enough to stand out as going significantly faster.
It also would have taken suicidal bravery to go much quicker than 30mph in neutral downhill for example with the braking systems and braking capacity they had available.Id guess 30 mph max would have been the general speed regime for trucks at that time in that environment.
Dennis Javelin:
One for the old timers on here.When the speed limit for 6 and 8 wheelers was 20mph was this observed, were the trucks governed or was it basically ignored especially out with the cities?
It wasn’t just 6/8 wheelers, it was everything over 2.5 tons unladen, raised to 3 tons just after the war. I’ve heard a number of old time drivers speak of getting done for 22mph or so. Father spoke of coppers hiding, one with a handkerchief signalling to another down the road with stopwatch.
Bernard
My Father-in-law used to regale the time he got overtaken and stopped by a copper on a pushbike, for doing 24mph.
albion1938:
Dennis Javelin:
One for the old timers on here.When the speed limit for 6 and 8 wheelers was 20mph was this observed, were the trucks governed or was it basically ignored especially out with the cities?
It wasn’t just 6/8 wheelers, it was everything over 2.5 tons unladen, raised to 3 tons just after the war. I’ve heard a number of old time drivers speak of getting done for 22mph or so. Father spoke of coppers hiding, one with a handkerchief signalling to another down the road with stopwatch.
Bernard
I thought it was 30 for 4 wheelers and 20 for the rest.
Star down under.:
My Father-in-law used to regale the time he got overtaken and stopped by a copper on a pushbike, for doing 24mph.
I didn’t know Tommy Simpson was a policeman 
Carryfast:
To be fair there were none of the speed recording devices that existed later.Any offence would have been based entirely on police discretion from casual observation.Certainly don’t think that anyone would have been nicked for doing 20mph + 2% +1 which can happen now.
Also most trucks probably weren’t designed or geared to go fast enough to stand out as going significantly faster.
It also would have taken suicidal bravery to go much quicker than 30mph in neutral downhill for example with the braking systems and braking capacity they had available.Id guess 30 mph max would have been the general speed regime for trucks at that time in that environment.
Disagree with much of that. Many lorries were capable of a lot more than 20 mph, especially unladen. Also, the modus operandi of traffic police was to drive behind and see if the speed matched that on their police car speedometers so it was more accurate than mere discretion.
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
To be fair there were none of the speed recording devices that existed later.Any offence would have been based entirely on police discretion from casual observation.Certainly don’t think that anyone would have been nicked for doing 20mph + 2% +1 which can happen now.
Also most trucks probably weren’t designed or geared to go fast enough to stand out as going significantly faster.
It also would have taken suicidal bravery to go much quicker than 30mph in neutral downhill for example with the braking systems and braking capacity they had available.Id guess 30 mph max would have been the general speed regime for trucks at that time in that environment.Disagree with much of that. Many lorries were capable of a lot more than 20 mph, especially unladen. Also, the modus operandi of traffic police was to drive behind and see if the speed matched that on their police car speedometers so it was more accurate than mere discretion.
How many police cars were there on the trunk roads years ago? I guess what I’m asking is that on the old trunk roads was it normal to keep to the speed limit or was it regularly abused. If the trucks were unable to go much faster than this then, when they increased the limits in the 60’s(?), did this sound the death knell for a lot of trucks.
Also, does anyone have a timeline showing the changes. Any search I put into Google (other search engines are available) only brings up details for cars not commercial vehicles.
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
To be fair there were none of the speed recording devices that existed later.Any offence would have been based entirely on police discretion from casual observation.Certainly don’t think that anyone would have been nicked for doing 20mph + 2% +1 which can happen now.
Also most trucks probably weren’t designed or geared to go fast enough to stand out as going significantly faster.
It also would have taken suicidal bravery to go much quicker than 30mph in neutral downhill for example with the braking systems and braking capacity they had available.Id guess 30 mph max would have been the general speed regime for trucks at that time in that environment.Disagree with much of that. Many lorries were capable of a lot more than 20 mph, especially unladen. Also, the modus operandi of traffic police was to drive behind and see if the speed matched that on their police car speedometers so it was more accurate than mere discretion.
archive.commercialmotor.com/pag … er-1936/40
You need to go back to 1930’s conditions probably not many traffic coppers parked in a 1930s patrol car with a max speed of 50-60 mph itself waiting to chase a Mammoth Major 8 wheeler struggling to break the 30 mph barrier or even 25 mph.
Bearing in mind that even a 12 tonner with similar power seems to have been all out at around the 30 mph mark.
In the real world getting nicked at 30 mph on the roads of the 30’s would have been a lot rarer and more difficult than getting nicked at 60 mph on the A5 or 75 mph on the M1 of the 1980s.
Ironically can’t seem to find any period road tests of proper heavies in Commercial Motor of the day.
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
To be fair there were none of the speed recording devices that existed later.Any offence would have been based entirely on police discretion from casual observation.Certainly don’t think that anyone would have been nicked for doing 20mph + 2% +1 which can happen now.
Also most trucks probably weren’t designed or geared to go fast enough to stand out as going significantly faster.
It also would have taken suicidal bravery to go much quicker than 30mph in neutral downhill for example with the braking systems and braking capacity they had available.Id guess 30 mph max would have been the general speed regime for trucks at that time in that environment.Disagree with much of that. Many lorries were capable of a lot more than 20 mph, especially unladen. Also, the modus operandi of traffic police was to drive behind and see if the speed matched that on their police car speedometers so it was more accurate than mere discretion.
1960s on wagon and drag speed limit 20mph with a fair wind and a full sail we could get 50ishmph. We got three days to do Scotland (TGW Union), Mon. Cowley to Carlisle, Tues Carlisle to Edinburgh tip across to Linwood load back to Carlisle, Weds Carlisle to Cowley 2 trips a week it worked at approx 900 mile a round trip. With regard to brakes the unit was good(Leyland Super Comet air) but the trailer was always iffy. For artics it was 40mph of which I was given proof 
Ergo Mercury 58mph which was its max and I was followed in a Jaguar420 for a sixth of a mile exceeding 40mph the sixth of a mile was the police minimum speed check distance remember the white squares on the roadway(I think they are still on some roads) well they were spaced at a sixth of a mile specifically for police patrol car calculation with their speedometer reading over that distance.
Oily
Commercial Vehicle speed limits= I’ll start in 1922 when Artics were included, Rigid 12mph, Artic 12mph, Rigid and Trailer 5mph. 1928 Rigid 20mph, Artic 12mph, Rigid and Trailer 12mph, 1931 20, 16, 16 mph, Horseboxes 30 mph, 1934 20, 20, 20 mph, Horseboxes 30 mph, 1957 Rigid 30, Artic 30, Rigid and Trailer 20 mph, this may surprise many 1967 Rigid 70m/40, Artic 70m/40, Rigid and Trailer 70m/30 mph (m = motorway). 1971 All 60m, 40 Rigid and Artic, 30 Rigid and Trailer, 1984 above 7.5 tonnes GVW 60m/50d/40 (d = Dual Carriageways. 1904 to 1931 20mph for under 2 Ton Unladen Weight, 1931 to 1957 30 mph for under 2.5 Ton Unladen Weight until 1967 when 70m/40. Of course 30 mph limits in built up areas would be for all vehicles. A few manufacturers, Seddon Diesel being the first in the 30’s built four wheelers under 2.5 Ton Unladen to allow the 30 mph limit but still enable the GVW of the time. Franky.
Geordielad:
Commercial Vehicle speed limits= I’ll start in 1922 when Artics were included, Rigid 12mph, Artic 12mph, Rigid and Trailer 5mph. 1928 Rigid 20mph, Artic 12mph, Rigid and Trailer 12mph, 1931 20, 16, 16 mph, Horseboxes 30 mph, 1934 20, 20, 20 mph, Horseboxes 30 mph, 1957 Rigid 30, Artic 30, Rigid and Trailer 20 mph, this may surprise many 1967 Rigid 70m/40, Artic 70m/40, Rigid and Trailer 70m/30 mph (m = motorway). 1971 All 60m, 40 Rigid and Artic, 30 Rigid and Trailer, 1984 above 7.5 tonnes GVW 60m/50d/40 (d = Dual Carriageways. 1904 to 1931 20mph for under 2 Ton Unladen Weight, 1931 to 1957 30 mph for under 2.5 Ton Unladen Weight until 1967 when 70m/40. Of course 30 mph limits in built up areas would be for all vehicles. A few manufacturers, Seddon Diesel being the first in the 30’s built four wheelers under 2.5 Ton Unladen to allow the 30 mph limit but still enable the GVW of the time. Franky.
Thanks
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
To be fair there were none of the speed recording devices that existed later.Any offence would have been based entirely on police discretion from casual observation.Certainly don’t think that anyone would have been nicked for doing 20mph + 2% +1 which can happen now.
Also most trucks probably weren’t designed or geared to go fast enough to stand out as going significantly faster.
It also would have taken suicidal bravery to go much quicker than 30mph in neutral downhill for example with the braking systems and braking capacity they had available.Id guess 30 mph max would have been the general speed regime for trucks at that time in that environment.Disagree with much of that. Many lorries were capable of a lot more than 20 mph, especially unladen. Also, the modus operandi of traffic police was to drive behind and see if the speed matched that on their police car speedometers so it was more accurate than mere discretion.
archive.commercialmotor.com/pag … er-1936/40
You need to go back to 1930’s conditions probably not many traffic coppers parked in a 1930s patrol car with a max speed of 50-60 mph itself waiting to chase a Mammoth Major 8 wheeler struggling to break the 30 mph barrier or even 25 mph.
Bearing in mind that even a 12 tonner with similar power seems to have been all out at around the 30 mph mark.
In the real world getting nicked at 30 mph on the roads of the 30’s would have been a lot rarer and more difficult than getting nicked at 60 mph on the A5 or 75 mph on the M1 of the 1980s.
Ironically can’t seem to find any period road tests of proper heavies in Commercial Motor of the day.
1930s? We’re talking about the 20mph speed limit and we still had that in the '50s.
ERF-NGC-European:
1930s? We’re talking about the 20mph speed limit and we still had that in the '50s.
Admittedly I was surprised and blindsided by the early 20th century speed regime being taken to the late 1950’s.Your view would obviously be more valid regarding the latter although truck development regarding braking and power outputs hadn’t progressed much up to the 1970’s regardless.
Probably more likely to get held up behind an underpowered 8 wheeler running out of steam on the hills of the A30, than get nicked for speeding on the A1, in 1956 regardless.
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
1930s? We’re talking about the 20mph speed limit and we still had that in the '50s.Admittedly I was surprised and blindsided by the early 20th century speed regime being taken to the late 1950’s.Your view would obviously be more valid regarding the latter although truck development regarding braking and power outputs hadn’t progressed much up to the 1970’s regardless.
Probably more likely to get held up behind an underpowered 8 wheeler running out of steam on the hills of the A30, than get nicked for speeding on the A1, in 1956 regardless.
True CF, but don’t forget that it wasn’t uncommon to be serially overtaken in your underpowered '50s car by lorries on undulating terrain making their descents at breakneck speeds in ‘Aberdeen overdrive’ - ie knocked out of cog 
Even in cog, your lorry could tramp on a bit downhill.
I can remember this happening even in the early '70s: driving my 1954 Morris Minor up the M6 from M1 to Birmingham. The road undulates, as you know, and I cat & moused it with an A-series artic the whole way. Every hill, he’d be down to about 15 mph and I’d overtake him; then as we descended the other side he’d fly by at 70. And this was repeated all the way. Daft details that stick in our useless brains
Spennymoor to London 256 mile centre to centre without deviations for delivery addresses. Would take 13 hours without a break yet in the 50s our Bedford SBs like the one in the photo that had 20 mph plate on rear regularly did journeys in 6 hours. Loaded the Bedford petrol engines cruised at 50 mph. Fortunately stop light were not a legal requirement so if they spotted a police car in their mirrors they could brake and no lights appeared so no proof they were slowing down. To prosecute police had to follow for a mile record the speed. No police radar etc in those days.Drivers preferred to travel at night as very few if any speed patrols working on A1
Carl Williams:
Spennymoor to London 256 mile centre to centre without deviations for delivery addresses. Would take 13 hours without a break yet in the 50s our Bedford SBs like the one in the photo that had 20 mph plate on rear regularly did journeys in 6 hours. Loaded the Bedford petrol engines cruised at 50 mph. Fortunately stop light were not a legal requirement so if they spotted a police car in their mirrors they could brake and no lights appeared so no proof they were slowing down. To prosecute police had to follow for a mile record the speed. No police radar etc in those days.Drivers preferred to travel at night as very few if any speed patrols working on A1
Reading the caption on your picture reminded me of the large coke-fuelled braziers with a galvanised bucket full of water atop it for the tea that was usual for road works sites!
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
ERF-NGC-European:
1930s? We’re talking about the 20mph speed limit and we still had that in the '50s.Admittedly I was surprised and blindsided by the early 20th century speed regime being taken to the late 1950’s.Your view would obviously be more valid regarding the latter although truck development regarding braking and power outputs hadn’t progressed much up to the 1970’s regardless.
Probably more likely to get held up behind an underpowered 8 wheeler running out of steam on the hills of the A30, than get nicked for speeding on the A1, in 1956 regardless.True CF, but don’t forget that it wasn’t uncommon to be serially overtaken in your underpowered '50s car by lorries on undulating terrain making their descents at breakneck speeds in ‘Aberdeen overdrive’ - ie knocked out of cog
I can remember this happening even in the early '70s: driving my 1954 Morris Minor up the M6 from M1 to Birmingham. The road undulates, as you know, and I cat & moused it with an A-series artic the whole way. Every hill, he’d be down to about 15 mph and I’d overtake him; then as we descended the other side he’d fly by at 70. And this was repeated all the way. Daft details that stick in our useless brains
It’s probably fair to say that it would have been rare to see the trucks of the AEC Mammoth MK2 era generally being driven anywhere much above 30mph on the roads of 1930’s- mid 1950’s Britain.Most if not all of those drivers would have been acutely aware of the pre WW2 design limitations of their vehicles.
Especially braking at 8 wheeler type gross weights even if they had been tempted to knock it into neutral on any inviting downhill stretch.While the gearing required to move those weights at that power output would have enforced a more or less 30mph limit on them.At which point it would probably only have been a rare event of an over zealous copper busting anyone for doing over 20 mph.
Motorways were obviously a game changer in design and the speed regime.
Obviously peaking with the higher powered and unlimited trucks and relatively less speed enforcement of the 1980’s.
I’m glad to have lived and driven through that decade.
The politically driven speed regime that we’re under now really is the worst of the worst in history both cars and trucks and very/too easy to lose a clean licence within a matter of minutes or even a mile.
Dipster:
Carl Williams:
Spennymoor to London 256 mile centre to centre without deviations for delivery addresses. Would take 13 hours without a break yet in the 50s our Bedford SBs like the one in the photo that had 20 mph plate on rear regularly did journeys in 6 hours. Loaded the Bedford petrol engines cruised at 50 mph. Fortunately stop light were not a legal requirement so if they spotted a police car in their mirrors they could brake and no lights appeared so no proof they were slowing down. To prosecute police had to follow for a mile record the speed. No police radar etc in those days.Drivers preferred to travel at night as very few if any speed patrols working on A1Reading the caption on your picture reminded me of the large coke-fuelled braziers with a galvanised bucket full of water atop it for the tea that was usual for road works sites!
Talking of speed in the 50s I remember talking to one of our drivers who joined us in about 1950 and stayed into the 70s. He recounted he regularly met a Tartan Arrow driver both travelling home trying to keep up with him till they went their separate ways at Scots Corner Tommy Stoddard drove for several years another of our Bedford SB 1953 pantechnicons CDJ and Tartan Arrow ran many AECs and were notourius for their speed. Tommy always recounted how difficult it was to keep up but Tartan Arrow tended to clear the road of obstructions as many car drivers got out of their way.
Once the 20 mph limit was abolished and speed limit was increased to 30 mphlittle changed as they were still breaking the law speeding as they certainly were not slowing down and when stop lights were mandatory we had diesel Bedfords so to hide the fact they were braking to slow down from following police they simply turned off the ignition so the brake lights didn’t work turning it back on as soon as the road behind was clear again
As a nipper I remember dad having a 20 plate on the Foden he drove for Thermalite in Reading. A full week to travel up to Dounreay and back. He got caught doing 23 mph near Oxford, the only motoring offence he ever had. The Foden had the 12 speed 'box and he used to enjoy passing Reed papers Fodens on hills as they only had the 4 speeder! 
Pete