2 Oct CE pass with Peter Smythe "No one fails there"

Delighted to say I passed on Wed - for me the end of 4 stressful years as I had to move in Dec2015 and came to the Fens where there is little cat C work but loads of CE. But as we all know C wages don’t pay enough to save for CE.

I could only get agency work for C and then had a lucky break for a year in recovery work until Xmas time when there was a sharp downturn in work. A job I enjoyed apart from the fact that the employer tells you are exempt tacho law - you are not and I wasn’t going to last (read my other post later).

Peter kindly offered me his 10 month payment deal but I was not in permanent employment and didn’t feel I could take the risk (I experienced two attempts at repossession in 2017). Ideally one needs to do CE full of confidence and whilst I’ve been driving C for five years with no trouble (apart from those giving London horror stories when I have found it a pleasure compared with other places).

So finally there. Folk often ask for advice so I’ll give my humble feedback!

1] Only use a provider that has their own reversing area and offers pass protection. I passed C first time (not with PSTT) but doing the reversing at a truck stop cones put out is not the same. I tried CE before (not PSTT as I lived in Suffolk then) and failed on the reverse but only had about two attempts at it (because he couldn’t be bothered to put out the cones).
A firm’s own area is always ready and no time is wasted.

2] Most providers don’t offer pass protection. It is so easy to make a mistake at one’s test. I failed 1st test on nerves I stupidly forgot to PULL the trailer break… got 4 minors on the driving - so I was fuming!!! 2nd test I did a wobbly again with changing lanes due to a car coming fast on the outside lane and me dithering.

I forgot one issue that no one tells you (unless one has a friend who is an ADI like me) - ignore the examiner’s instruction and then claim you got muddled/confused or something similar. “If you haven’t inconvenienced other road users - you haven’t messed up”.
You may get a minor (depends on examiner) but better than a serious. But you wouldn’t get away with it twice!!! If you DO NOT inconvenience other road users you pass… unless you pick up too many minors - worth remembering. 3rd test 7 minors but it was PASS which is all that matters.
I was surprised to get 5 Show me/Tell me questions (that threw me a bit) - usually two I think and then I had FOUR controlled stops (think that’s what it’s called “pull up on the left when it’s safe to do so”). Not quite sure why I should have been given more than usual. But so what it’s pass. :smiley:

3] Reversing. It seems to a stigma attached “It’s Hard” - I struggle with this one. ‘Reversing with a trailer’ is exactly that and is the same principle whether a car transporter, caravan, farm trailer, drawbar or artic trailer.

The artic trailer longer and so presumably the movement is magnified compared with the others. I did drawbar for the test simply because I wanted to stay with a rigid truck that I am used to. Good investment prior to test is hiring (about £30) a 2 axle trailer for a long weekend and having practice. Then you will know how to correct movement before the training week.
I must have done maybe a dozen reverses and not made a mistake - I have my own car transporter so no excuse. BUT bigger vehicle for the test and practice is still necessary but you don’t want to spend too much time at reversing when there are general driving standards to reach as well.

4] Drawbar v Artic. I chose drawbar as I am used to the cab. An artic cab is higher and I believe the combination for reversing is harder. Some folk say drawbar is much easier and you’ll get a job a better job if you say you trained on artic. I don’t think it makes any difference.
A good company should give you several days yard training for reversing/ blind reversing and a couple of weeks supervised driving (should be interpreted as support/training but is also driving assessment).
If they don’t - look elsewhere. So far I’ve only done four applications and got four interviews (next week) and each offer initial support/training.
No one is perfect - there are those that get no minors on test but many say such but cannot provide the check sheet to prove it. I won’t have to try too hard for a job as there are so many CE in this area - drop me a PM for ‘a pointer’ if you are thinking of jobs in the Fens. It’s fair to say one has got a high standard to reach in 14 hours.

Hope my tips are helpful to members. As someone said to me on an agency job who did C with PSTT “No one fails there” (a legend!) Well I did 3 tests :blush: in the training period. BUT I have kept the legend ALIVE. :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: (LOL)

Great write up , I’m down there again this week for my 3rd attempt ! Same as you four minors and a kerb on test 1

Test 2 Burger King turn - hadn’t done it and wasn’t aware of how narrow it was until I committed to it - like you say if you ignore the instruction and carry on in a safe manner they can’t do you for it so I may keep that in mind for next time lol

Gaz

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bamberg:
Great write up , I’m down there again this week for my 3rd attempt ! Same as you four minors and a kerb on test 1

Test 2 Burger King turn - hadn’t done it and wasn’t aware of how narrow it was until I committed to it - like you say if you ignore the instruction and carry on in a safe manner they can’t do you for it so I may keep that in mind for next time lol

Gaz

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“Burger King turn”?
Is that a local landmark? Or some hip young person type speak?

If the latter don`t worry about explanations, just laugh! :smiley:

Apparently it’s a well known tight left turn in Mansfield centre that catches a lot of people out on test !

It got me !!

Gaz

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Forgot to mention something. NEVER go to a training provider that does not allocate ONE instructor to you. The first course I did I found I had one for two days and another for the other two. I think that is unfair - in my case one had only just started instructing. Apparently an instructor does not have to be qualified - they only have to pass a course at some stage. there is a test every 4 years I believe. They take money off you and don’t really care that much - the firm concerned are still doing that I gathered from a friend who passed recently with them. For my sins I will “name and shame” with good reason - Hamilton’s Driver Training King’s Lynn and Bury St Edmunds.

As a former teacher I think it fair to say one can be a brilliant driver BUT the instructor’s job is TEACHING or imparting the knowledge appropriately. At PSTT one is assured of that.

Frightened me when I saw the thread title! But having read the context, it’s fine.

Whilst it is true that going the wrong way on test is not normally going to be a fail (depends on a number of safety related factors) it’s certainly not recommended. The Burger King turn is an interesting one with the lane being narrow and the turn being tight. So the only way around it is to straddle the lanes on the approach. We’ve certainly had some fails there over the years but it’s really not as frequent as it might sound by reading the thread.

The credit deal has ended. Having said that, we’re happy to organise finance through a 3rd party. Online application with very quick decision.

Pass Protection is very much on offer and some jump at it whilst others prefer not to take it. We never attempt to “sell” it but it’s on offer as a service.

We always allocate one instructor to a course. An exception may occur if the customer wants a course really quickly. Under those circumstances, the appropriate number of instructors (probably 2) will be allocated and the customer informed before they commit. All our instructors have gone through the same training and passed the same instructional tests. They’re not robots so not identical- but remarkably similar. In an emergency eg instructor sickness, a fully qualified instructor will take over and, because of our strict record keeping regime, will know the levels already achieved so no time is wasted. This is a task that sometimes falls to me as I dont teach a full programme so I have space on most days.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR AN “INSTRUCTOR” TO TAKE ANY TRAINING OR TEST AT ANY POINT IN THEIR CAREER. THE HUGE MAJORITY HAVE HAD NO INSTRUCTIONAL TRAINING AND ARE NO REGISTERED WITH ANY RECOGNISED BODY. AS WE ARE AN APPROVED CENTRE (NVDIR) WE ARE COMMITTED TO USING ONLY FULLY TRAINED, QUALIFIED AND REGISTERED INSTRUCTORS. THIS IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO THE NORM. JUST ASK TO SEE THEIR BADGE IF THEY CLAIM TO BE REGISTERED. NO BADGE - BE WARY.

The debate concerning the virtues and otherwise of drawbar vs artic will roll on forever. It’s down to personal choice and we’re happy to provide whatever the customer requests.

Good luck all, Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Peter Smythe:
(…) The Burger King turn is an interesting one with the lane being narrow and the turn being tight. So the only way around it is to straddle the lanes on the approach. We’ve certainly had some fails there over the years but it’s really not as frequent as it might sound by reading the thread. (…)

I will definitely ask Paul to take me there in November when I’m getting my training :grimacing:

Rav

I’m sure Paul will oblige! I’m not keen on rehearsing routes or bits of routes for test though. I prefer to teach the techniques for identifying the correct action and logic for varying types of junction. But before anyone shouts, obviously it’s helpful if the candidate has been around some of the interesting turns that could arise and this is what we do. But, with the best will in the world, it’s impossible (let alone undesirable) to cover every possible turn.

Best of luck with it RAV. I’m sure you’ll be fine and equally sure that Paul will happily take you to the Burger King junction.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Peter Smythe:
I’m sure Paul will oblige! I’m not keen on rehearsing routes or bits of routes for test though. I prefer to teach the techniques for identifying the correct action and logic for varying types of junction. But before anyone shouts, obviously it’s helpful if the candidate has been around some of the interesting turns that could arise and this is what we do. But, with the best will in the world, it’s impossible (let alone undesirable) to cover every possible turn.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

During my Class 2 training Helen took me to that box junction that has (had ?) no markings visible (the last difficult turn on your way back to your school). Got completely lost on my first attempt (because I couldn’t see the markings, so my positioning was simply speaking ■■■■■■ but got it the second time. I then took my car and had another go. During my test we obviously went through that junction, so the practice did pay off. I wouldn’t mind this type of unknown odd junction now in a rigid but an artic will be a completely unknown beast to me, so… :grimacing:

Peter Smythe:
Best of luck with it RAV. I’m sure you’ll be fine and equally sure that Paul will happily take you to the Burger King junction.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Thanks a lot Pete!

Often folk ask how easy is it to get a job after the test - yet when folk say it depends on the area you live… they don’t seem to believe it. Where I live there is little cat C but more CE. So here it is; sent an email to the two firms in the village the day after passing - phoned by one firm the following day for an interview the following week. Job offered at that interview.

As the firm are 15 mins walk from home - I didn’t look too hard!

Well how are you finding it in the C+E world now you’ve made it! you could ask (LOL)

I must say I find doing a test of competence to drive forwards a bit bizarre - when the real skill of competence is driving backwards!

At present I either get on the bay perfectly straight… or make a hash of it (mostly when I am tired). No wonder employers say they want two years experience before they will consider you. Thankfully my employer is a decent firm and prepared to give folk a chance.

That being said I would strongly recommend doing drawbar for the test. As I have learnt trailer legs give trouble (in the sense that the ratchet sticks and needs a jiggle depending how it has sat) and I wouldn’t have wanted the hassle for the test. Reversing the artic trailer is a different world to reversing a drawbar trailer or car transporter and one is better to learn the method of artic reversing properly in a good company.

That being said I would strongly recommend doing drawbar for the test. As I have learnt trailer legs give trouble (in the sense that the ratchet sticks and needs a jiggle depending how it has sat) and I wouldn’t have wanted the hassle for the test. Reversing the artic trailer is a different world to reversing a drawbar trailer or car transporter and one is better to learn the method of artic reversing properly in a good company.

The topic of drawbar vs artic is never - ending! With reference to artic trailer legs, I know exactly what you mean. But the solution is very simple. Just grab the handle and pull it firmly out (away from the trailer) . That will engage the winding gear and then there’s no problem. If that doesn’t work, the mechanism is worn and it may need another wiggle.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

Peter Smythe:

That being said I would strongly recommend doing drawbar for the test. As I have learnt trailer legs give trouble (in the sense that the ratchet sticks and needs a jiggle depending how it has sat) and I wouldn’t have wanted the hassle for the test. Reversing the artic trailer is a different world to reversing a drawbar trailer or car transporter and one is better to learn the method of artic reversing properly in a good company.

The topic of drawbar vs artic is never - ending! With reference to artic trailer legs, I know exactly what you mean. But the solution is very simple. Just grab the handle and pull it firmly out (away from the trailer) . That will engage the winding gear and then there’s no problem. If that doesn’t work, the mechanism is worn and it may need another wiggle.

Pete :laughing: :laughing:

What I have found is that one has to wind with the lever in (fine gear) and then pull out for main gear and try a few revs. If that doesn’t work one needs to repeat and it’ll come free. Thing is a trailer gets a ‘beating’ with rough drivers (most trailers winding gear has suffered wear). Training provider kit is in much better condition - I certainly wasn’t implying that was not the case. My firm has about 150 units and as many trailers - maintenance do the best they can… but I’ve had a couple of knackered winding gears which gave me grief and defect reported.

I am biased I suppose - my first attempt at C+E was in an artic with two instructors (sharing the days training) and a grotty trailer with knackered legs. For the test with drawbar there are no worries, a simple hitch and parking brake on the front of the trailer (parking brakes on my firms’ trailers can be at the rear or just behind the legs). Once test is done THEN real learning can take place… as I am finding!