I totally agree that cyclist need to take more responsibility too, but I can’t see any merits in draconian enforcements (with the exception of banning overweight men in lycra).
It’s almost impossible to enforce and any such action is likely to cause bad relations between the cycling communities and the police - it would be a PR nightmare for the cops.
Any education or danger awareness campaign must involve the cops, so no point putting cyclist on the wrong foot from the get go.
IMO, insurance is a major issue, a large percentage if not almost all cyclists do not have any third party insurance cover. It would seem to me that most of us have other types of insurance, so there could be potential for free 3rd party cyclist insurance - provided along with all other vehicle and household insurance - with the proviso that those insured do an updated proficiency course. I’d wager the lives and injuries saved or incidents prevented would easily cover the costs. So no reason why with such a high saving, that the cost couldn’t be funded though public coffers. To put this in perspective… every death on the road costs very large amounts of money - often in the millions per death. Every serious injury… many tens of thousands… not to mention the wider implications. So improving training would not only improve the whole situation - there’s a fairly easy way to make it attractive to most people.
Throw into the mix - making cycling proficiency part of the school curriculum - similar to swimming and we are on the way to improving cycling skills nationwide.
Then, over the longer term… I’m back banging on the drum of creating proper separate cycle lanes everywhere. Seems to me… if the Dutch can do it, we can.
Blimey make your mind up.
One minute you’re saying that it would be a so called bs ‘public relations disaster’ for the government and the police to do their job,in enforcing a regime in which cyclists have to use the existing pedestrian/cycleways already provided,and to then extend that idea to most other pavements wherever possible,while also having penalties which reflect the same standards in regards to all the implications of such a regime,as those currently expected by cyclists to be imposed on drivers.By that yardstick I could say it would equally be a public relations disaster to charge yet another truck or bus driver with causing the death of yet another suicidal cyclist.Which is obviously a case of the hypocritical cyclists wanting double standards law enforcement in the case of drivers as opposed to themselves.
Then at the end of all that bs you reach exactly the same conclusion as what I’ve been saying in getting the cyclists off the roads.So why is it that you think things would be any different when you’ve got your Dutch utopia.Because it’s obvious that just as is the case now the law still won’t be able to enforce the use of such Dutch cycleways when,as has been said,the cyclist lot won’t want to use them anyway because they’ll still want to excercise their ‘rights’ to use the road.Just as is the case now with those cycleways we’ve got.
newmercman:
Just a thought, but how many non cyclists were killed on the roads that day?
As the death toll on British roads is greater than 365 per annum, it’s safe to assume that others lost their life that day.
Maybe a pedestrian, or a motorcyclist, or a car driver, or a van driver, or a bus driver, or even another lorry driver was killed as a result of colliding with a lorry.
Does this mean we should ban pedestrians, cars, vans, buses and other lorries?
It’s a sad fact of life, but a fact nonetheless, people will make mistakes that end up with tragic circumstances.
Darwinism, the law of averages, bad timing, human nature, call it what you like, people are going to get hurt or killed on the roads, no matter what precautions are taken.
Although there is a way to avoid it…
Stay in bed…
BUT, more people die in bed than anywhere else…
In the case of cyclists there is another way to avoid it and that’s as I’ve said get the stupid zb’s off the roads wherever possible and where that’s not possible then make them walk.
I seriously think that the road transport industry and legislation have moved many miles to try to prevent cyclist vs truck incidents. what hasn’t moved is any legislation or enforcement of traffic laws over cyclists- like it or lump it the road transport industry is trying to address this issue, w what we don’t see is anything like the effort being put in on the truck drivers side being mirrored by the cycling community, this cant be a one sided thing, and at the moment it seems no matter what we do - we are in the wrong, So I will say it , and enrage many cyclists - but guys you are responsible for your own safety, we are doing our bit to try to keep you safe but ultimately your life is in your hands- we can only do so much- after that its down to you.
Road traffic laws should be enforced - and cyclists should be ticketed far more often, a higher level of enforcement against cyclists should be introduced similar to the higher level that HGV drivers already have.
Rikki-UK:
I seriously think that the road transport industry and legislation have moved many miles to try to prevent cyclist vs truck incidents. what hasn’t moved is any legislation or enforcement of traffic laws over cyclists- like it or lump it the road transport industry is trying to address this issue, w what we don’t see is anything like the effort being put in on the truck drivers side being mirrored by the cycling community, this cant be a one sided thing, and at the moment it seems no matter what we do - we are in the wrong, So I will say it , and enrage many cyclists - but guys you are responsible for your own safety, we are doing our bit to try to keep you safe but ultimately your life is in your hands- we can only do so much- after that its down to you
To add to that why is it that we’re not hearing any defence within the industry of drivers against what is obviously a politically driven policy of double standards being applied in the case of drivers as opposed to cyclists.As things stand it’s just a case of obvious victimisation and making scapegoats of drivers in regards to a problem for which they aren’t to blame.All to make cycling supposedly ‘more attractive’ thereby adding to those problems not reducing them.
Rikki-UK:
I seriously think that the road transport industry and legislation have moved many miles to try to prevent cyclist vs truck incidents. what hasn’t moved is any legislation or enforcement of traffic laws over cyclists- like it or lump it the road transport industry is trying to address this issue, w what we don’t see is anything like the effort being put in on the truck drivers side being mirrored by the cycling community, this cant be a one sided thing, and at the moment it seems no matter what we do - we are in the wrong, So I will say it , and enrage many cyclists - but guys you are responsible for your own safety, we are doing our bit to try to keep you safe but ultimately your life is in your hands- we can only do so much- after that its down to you.
Road traffic laws should be enforced - and cyclists should be ticketed far more often, a higher level of enforcement against cyclists should be introduced similar to the higher level that HGV drivers already have.
The flaw in that plan is representation, our industry doesn’t have any
Cyclists however are made up from many different groups, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers…
Within the cycling fraternity there only has to be a couple of Council Officials, high ranking Police, Government Officials or the Son of the Tea Lady in their canteen and they will have a voice, a voice that will be heard.
Meanwhile we bolt extra mirrors and warning signs on our lorries and continue being [zb[ed without even getting a kiss first.
We need representatives and we need them to appeal to the cycling fraternity to join forces to find a solution.
All the time both parties continue playing the blame game, nothing will change…
On that mark we can agree, TruckNet UK is not and never will be a campaigning website, But I am willing to moderate a sensible , respectable debate , with one single aim, to stop folks getting killed, this can be either an open and public discussion or done privately, but has to be done from a no blame starting point , and all involved have to agree to come to the debate with an open mind and no preconceptions,
newmercman:
This forum is the perfect place for people on both sides to meet and start up something that will do some good.
If we, the transport industry, do not get involved, then we can only blame ourselves for any future legislation we have to face.
We have to have representatives, ideally they would be cycling lorry drivers, to give a balanced view.
Somehow I think that the diplomatic approach isn’t going to work in this case because things have gone too far in favour of the cycling lot all done on a confrontational basis.It’s going to take a equally strong confrontational approach in return in which the industry,together with all motor transport users,throw every one of the bs arguments,which the cyclists and their supporters use,to justify their actions,back in their faces.If not then it’ll just be a case of ever more of the same on an ever increasing basis.
just a thought when there is a cyclist anywhere near ,at lights ,junctions or anywhere dubious ,if you check in your mirrors you will see the nob.Take your time to let them go . I now this may take 30 seconds ,but if we knock them down. it will take a lot longer.It,s just not worth it ,let them get out of our way,show we are better,more professional and avoid featuring in bbc news. No I am not a cyclist, just a driver who cares about our profession
Rikki-UK:
So I will say it , and enrage many cyclists - but guys you are responsible for your own safety, we are doing our bit to try to keep you safe but ultimately your life is in your hands- we can only do so much- after that its up to you.
Do you really think many cyclists are logging on to Trucknet?
Or is it maybe a few professional truck drivers who sometimes ride bikes are trying to balance a argument here!
Maybe try getting your message across on a bicycle forum perhaps may reach a greater target audience! That’s just my view, but what do,I know Iam only a thick suicidal cyclist.
Rikki-UK:
On that mark we can agree, TruckNet UK is not and never will be a campaigning website, But I am willing to moderate a sensible , respectable debate , with one single aim, to stop folks getting killed, this can be either an open and public discussion or done privately, but has to be done from a no blame starting point , and all involved have to agree to come to the debate with an open mind and no preconceptions,
Let’s give it a crack…
I would suggest a separate group - but one where visitors and forum members have ‘Read All’ permissions, group members limited to Standard Access… no need for polls etc. This way, non group members can see and apply to join the discussion. So you may need to consider setting up a group leader… perhaps…dunno?
Rikki-UK:
So I will say it , and enrage many cyclists - but guys you are responsible for your own safety, we are doing our bit to try to keep you safe but ultimately your life is in your hands- we can only do so much- after that its up to you.
Do you really think many cyclists are logging on to Trucknet?
Or is it maybe a few professional truck drivers who sometimes ride bikes are trying to balance a argument here!
Maybe try getting your message across on a bicycle forum perhaps may reach a greater target audience! That’s just my view, but what do,I know Iam only a thick suicidal cyclist.
I think it’s a very responsible attitude to say look, here we are, what can we learn from you… here’s what we think you can learn from us. Nobody is forced to join - if it flops, can be binned… nothing ventured - nothing gained - no shame in trying.
newmercman:
If we, the transport industry, do not get involved, then we can only blame ourselves for any future legislation we have to face.
Like the DCPC you all did naff all about! But heaven forbid a cyclist would chose to ride a dual carriageway then your all up in arms
Yes exactly like the DCPC, the WTD and any number of BS rules we know have to abide by.
Do nothing and you have to accept the consequences.
BTW, I have not mentioned cycling on dual carriageways, so why quote me on my views on them without knowing what my views are?
Chester, chill out dude, getting confrontational is not going to get you anywhere, you’re beginning to sound as though you have an inferiority complex, we know you cycle, you would make a good go between to get the message across on cycling forums, don’t let a few people with extreme views cloud your judgment
Rikki-UK:
So I will say it , and enrage many cyclists - but guys you are responsible for your own safety, we are doing our bit to try to keep you safe but ultimately your life is in your hands- we can only do so much- after that its up to you.
Do you really think many cyclists are logging on to Trucknet?
Or is it maybe a few professional truck drivers who sometimes ride bikes are trying to balance a argument here!
Maybe try getting your message across on a bicycle forum perhaps may reach a greater target audience! That’s just my view, but what do,I know Iam only a thick suicidal cyclist.
Thats a good point, but all this forum could do is reach out a hand to cyclists forum’s admin and ask if they pop a sticky link to this thread as we are here and wanting to discuss this topic.
Yes some cyclist forums may prefer to have the discussion there but if we can’t get passed the whole ‘your place or mine’ then it becomes pointless.
Its a case of build it and they will hopefully come and this thread maybe more useful to novice cyclists (those most at risk) than those who already know the dangers. Course theres a risk it gets to argumentative and has to locked but lets at least try.
Look, cyclists are thick as ■■■■. Nothing will change. No amount of educational videos, posters etc will make a jot of difference. Just let them continue to get flattened, keep calm and carry on. Darwin’s Law.
All is not lost yet.There are a fair number of sensible posts from folks who ride bikes when not out there earning in lorries.The dumb cyclists are those that wear earphones when riding in heavy traffic.IMO.Most people just want to get through their day.
Rob K:
Look, cyclists are thick as [zb]. Nothing will change. No amount of educational videos, posters etc will make a jot of difference. Just let them continue to get flattened, keep calm and carry on. Darwin’s Law.
My mate runs a newsagents, on his top shelf there’s all the usual ■■■■ mags etc, he’s got a little system going with the local truck driver fraternity… They come in, ask for a copy of ■■■■■■■ - they give him a wink and a nod… he gets the unspoken message… knows they are looking for something under-the-counter / ■■■■■■■■… so he slips in a copy of Darwin’s Theory on Natural Selection.
He said, no matter how much these fat w@[zb]s read Darwin, they are still all overweight, bald and breathless. When will they ever realise Darwin said: Survival of the fittestI Not driver of the biggest!
