How unfortunately topical. Tomorrow I’m doing an urban driving course which counts as a further 7 hours towards the much maligned DCPC and I’m sure this will be discussed.
As an LGV driver this training is being carried out in order to comply with requests from crossrail and other major construction companies that ALL drivers attending site have completed this training. The party line is No Training, No Job !
I wonder how many cyclists have undergone an urban riding course ? I fear the answer would be a big fat . . . . . . .ZERO !
As an LGV driver for over 20 years and a cyclist for forty, my HGV training alerts me to the danger areas so why can’t cyclists be made to undertake an LGV awareness equivalent? If it saved one life, I’m sure it would be worth it, I’m pretty sure that the family of the poor guy in his 40’s mentioned in the story would agree.
I fear we will not see much of a reduction in these kind of incidents until the Traffic Nazis start handing out £80 fixed penalties to these people in much the same way as they do to the LGV fraternity. When they risk £80 to jump the lights/ignore signs/ride on pavements etc, it may make them think twice.
All that said, condolences to the guys family, very sad.
i agree with the few ppl that have said cyclists need training. the only training ive had on a bike was in junior school, and most dont even seem to have that! if ppl attended a course and had to be registared to be on the road then they would be more aware of the dangers they are placing themselves in by riding up the inside of traffic. also being registared would make them liable for there actions coz im sick of ppl clipping my car mirrors as they go past then riding off as quick as their spindly little legs will let them 
Juddian:
I suppose the one sided views here are natural up to a point, no doubt the other one sided views are currently being aired on a cycling forum.Cyclists in heavily congested cities like London arn’t going away, and be careful what you wish for as far from putting cyclists on the pavements the result is more likely to be a halving of the present road width for vehicular use, and the rest being cycle use only with draconian fines for those drivers who flout the divides.
The logic that in most cases there isn’t usually a suitable safer alternative on the existing pavements is just bs with this being the logical conclusion of your argument. 
youtube.com/watch?v=H7u7aTni5as 2.18-2.47
You know it really is starting to ■■■■ me off how it is ALWAYS the HGV driver that gets arrested. I can only think of 2 types of transport where you don’t need any training or qualification to use the roads, that is cycling and horse riding. Cyclist are by enlarge thick ■■■■■, the come up the near side of vehicle’s of all sizes oftern going at stupid speeds, many have no regards for the rules of the roads ie stopping at a red light. I am a motorcyclists and you are trained to look after yourself as you a one of the most vulnerable road users, cyclists are in that same category but many don’t care and have a “not my fault” attitude. It shouldn’t matter who’s fault an accident would be all parties should be looking out for the idiot. Often the idiot is on two wheels with pedals, I mean come on do they think the driver hunted him down and ran him over no of course he didn’t, he would have been doing what all cyclists in London do and would be riding like a prick no doubt.
He didn’t deserve to die but its like the animal kingdom you don’t ■■■■ with things bigger and stronger than you.
Boomerang Dave:
Bungle666:
I think the time has come to regulate the cyclists somewhat…compulsory road riding training and a system of registration for starters!
Just not workable mate.
What we need is a complete re-design of the road network. It would create masses of employment, revive the economy and make our roads much safer for everyone.
It wouldn’t make any difference.The problem is mixing motor vehicles with cyclists it’s not usually one of space.The fact is the idea of cyclists riding next to trucks and buses on the same road makes no sense when there are already plenty of pavements with sufficient space available.In addition to which is the present situation whereby cycle ways have been provided but cyclists don’t use them and the law doesn’t force them to.
Carryfast:
Boomerang Dave:
Bungle666:
I think the time has come to regulate the cyclists somewhat…compulsory road riding training and a system of registration for starters!
Just not workable mate.
What we need is a complete re-design of the road network. It would create masses of employment, revive the economy and make our roads much safer for everyone.
It wouldn’t make any difference.The problem is mixing motor vehicles with cyclists it’s not usually one of space.The fact is the idea of cyclists riding next to trucks and buses on the same road makes no sense when there are already plenty of pavements with sufficient space available.In addition to which is the present situation whereby cycle ways have been provided but cyclists don’t use them and the law doesn’t force them to.
Works in Holland. 
Juddian:
I suppose the one sided views here are natural up to a point, no doubt the other one sided views are currently being aired on a cycling forum.Cyclists in heavily congested cities like London arn’t going away, and be careful what you wish for as far from putting cyclists on the pavements the result is more likely to be a halving of the present road width for vehicular use, and the rest being cycle use only with draconian fines for those drivers who flout the divides.
Whether you want to see the truth or not there are as many bad drivers as there are bad cyclists, the penalty for being a bad driver though is always going to be dished out to the cyclist as they are the ones who invariably come off worse when things go wrong.
Whether this particular tipper driver is actually to blame for the accident we don’t know at his stage and it may be some weeks before such a decision becomes known, what is irrefutable is that whoever is to blame for this tragic event a man has lost his life and it isn’t the driver of the lorry, RIP chap.
Its high time some of our fraternity took better care out there, set their mirrors to the correct overlapping angles to eradicate blind spots, kept their mirrors and glass clean and in good condition and actually looked in them as and when needed.
Thats not to take away from anyone, cyclists included the responsibility to take as much care of themselves as they reasonably can.
We at the end of the day are the professional road users in charge of vehicles that can kill and main very easily, if we don’t sort our act out (including taking care of cyclists even if they are completely reckless and wrong and that is a minority of them) then we will find ourselves legislated against till the pips squeak.
+1
albion1971:
Juddian:
We at the end of the day are the professional road users in charge of vehicles that can kill and main very easily, if we don’t sort our act out (including taking care of cyclists even if they are completely reckless and wrong and that is a minority of them) then we will find ourselves legislated against till the pips squeak.+1
Maybe the driver in this case held those exact same views.Until now. 
As for legislation a charge of causing death by careless or dangerous driving isn’t exactly lenient.I’d doubt if even replacing the charge and penalty to that of manslaughter would make the slightest difference to the casualty list because it’s obviously a design issue in letting cyclists mix with motor traffic not one of drivers going out to work to be involved in running anyone over.
Although the circumstances surrounding this accident haven’t been made clear I can’t help but feel that there needs to be some mutual co-operation between cyclists and truck drivers to stop or at least reduce the regularity of these events.
This forum is well placed to reach out to a cyclist forum and get some sort or discussion going where we can help each other out. Sure it will be argumentative but in the end we are all striving for the same goal.
Sitting back and waiting for some government campaign is just lazy although when theres a general election looming chances are there will be more credence given to this topic.
Scenario:
I’m driving along an urban single carriageway road and see a cyclist in front of me, luckily theres enough of a gap in traffic for me to overtake safely and give the cyclist as much room as I would give a parked car.
Then just round the next bend theres a set of traffic lights I wish to turn left at that have changed to red.
Now stopping at the lights I remember the cyclist who I see catch up and cycle up my inside (sure I could get close to the kerb to block him/her but I’m turning left so need to position myself toward the middle of the road).
So the cyclist seeing my indicators hangs well back and I can turn easily without risking a collision, kudos to the cyclist for this.
Or the cyclist ignores my indicators and decides to chance it cycling up my inside but only gets half way before the lights change, as I move into position to begin the left turn manouvre I can see the cyclist (who is now caught between a rock and a hard place) and brake to let him past, but what if I hadn’t seen him the consequences are devastating for all involved.
Probably too much waffle but we as professional drivers have a duty of care and instead of fighting against cyclists we should work together to make the road network a safer place.
It should also be an offence for a cyclist to undertake a large vehicle and there should also be at least a few hours of a theory test they have to take before being allowed out on the roads.
Course this won’t stop the suicide jockeys in built up arrears but it may save a life or two.
It always amazes me how biased some are on here.Yes we know cyclists are not always properly trained or have the correct attitude for cycling but surely as so called professional drivers it is our responsibility to take extra care when they are about.
Attitudes of a lot of drivers towards cyclists need to change just as much as the cyclists need training.
[bI I do not suppose many of you have done any research into collisions between lorries and cyclists but if you care to look it is very frightening because although the cyclist may have gone to the nearside of a lorry turning left the lorry driver has not seen them because he did not look properly.
Here is one example of many available…
A female cyclist was crushed by a lorry and died at the scene.According to press reports about the inquest the cyclist and the lorry were waiting in front of red lights.
The cyclist was standing at the rear of the LGV when the lorry indicated left.
According to witnesses and CCTV material the cyclist moved on the nearside of the lorry when the lights turned green.
The cyclist did not realise that the lorry was turning left until it came close to her.She waved to catch the drivers attention and was then hit by the vehicle.
According to a collision investigator the cyclist was visible for at least 7 seconds in the lorry mirror.[/b]
This accident happened in London and although the cyclist maybe should not have been where she was the accident could have been avoided if the driver had signalled at the correct time and checked his mirrors properly.
Dipper_Dave:
Although the circumstances surrounding this accident haven’t been made clear I can’t help but feel that there needs to be some mutual co-operation between cyclists and truck drivers to stop or at least reduce the regularity of these events.This forum is well placed to reach out to a cyclist forum and get some sort or discussion going where we can help each other out. Sure it will be argumentative but in the end we are all striving for the same goal.
Sitting back and waiting for some government campaign is just lazy although when theres a general election looming chances are there will be more credence given to this topic.
Scenario:
I’m driving along an urban single carriageway road and see a cyclist in front of me, luckily theres enough of a gap in traffic for me to overtake safely and give the cyclist as much room as I would give a parked car.
Then just round the next bend theres a set of traffic lights I wish to turn left at that have changed to red.
Now stopping at the lights I remember the cyclist who I see catch up and cycle up my inside (sure I could get close to the kerb to block him/her but I’m turning left so need to position myself toward the middle of the road).
So the cyclist seeing my indicators hangs well back and I can turn easily without risking a collision, kudos to the cyclist for this.
Or the cyclist ignores my indicators and decides to chance it cycling up my inside but only gets half way before the lights change, as I move into position to begin the left turn manouvre I can see the cyclist (who is now caught between a rock and a hard place) and brake to let him past, but what if I hadn’t seen him the consequences are devastating for all involved.
Probably too much waffle but we as professional drivers have a duty of care and instead of fighting against cyclists we should work together to make the road network a safer place.
It should also be an offence for a cyclist to undertake a large vehicle and there should also be at least a few hours of a theory test they have to take before being allowed out on the roads.
Course this won’t stop the suicide jockeys in built up arrears but it may save a life or two.
It’s a bit naive to think that cyclists see it your way.To them they are all that matters no one else with support of the equally stupid thick zb’s in government which is why cyclists regularly ignore cycleways and continue on the road and it’s also why the government allows them to do it.While the fact is even under your utopian vision you’ll face a far worse penalty for turning left on or even snagging a cyclist who’s ridden along the nearside than they would for doing it.
albion1971:
It always amazes me how biased some are on here.Yes we know cyclists are not always properly trained or have the correct attitude for cycling but surely as so called professional drivers it is our responsibility to take extra care when they are about.
Attitudes of a lot of drivers towards cyclists need to change just as much as the cyclists need training.[bI I do not suppose many of you have done any research into collisions between lorries and cyclists but if you care to look it is very frightening because although the cyclist may have gone to the nearside of a lorry turning left the lorry driver has not seen them because he did not look properly.
Here is one example of many available…A female cyclist was crushed by a lorry and died at the scene.According to press reports about the inquest the cyclist and the lorry were waiting in front of red lights.
The cyclist was standing at the rear of the LGV when the lorry indicated left.
According to witnesses and CCTV material the cyclist moved on the nearside of the lorry when the lights turned green.
The cyclist did not realise that the lorry was turning left until it came close to her.She waved to catch the drivers attention and was then hit by the vehicle.
According to a collision investigator the cyclist was visible for at least 7 seconds in the lorry mirror.[/b]This accident happened in London and although the cyclist maybe should not have been where she was the accident could have been avoided if the driver had signalled at the correct time and checked his mirrors properly.
It’s nothing to do with bias to say that there’s a design problem with the idea of allowing cyclists to mix freely with motor traffic on the roads especially when in most cases there’s a perfectly suitable pavement for them to use if only the thick zb’s in government would change their ideas concerning road use.
As for truck drivers going 7 seconds without having checked the mirrors in that time that can only be a training issue existing from day 1.
Dipper_Dave:
Although the circumstances surrounding etc etc…
I’m with you most of the way Dave, but I just don’t see how legislating against cyclists would work.
Personally - making training part of the school curriculum would be a good starting point IMO. But no direct action against current bike users… especially the very young ones.
I think possibly every truck driver has encountered the scenario you described.
It seems to me wholly unfair to target cyclists with new legislation when they are the major victims in this. I see no logic in strengthening the existing laws against truck drivers either, so it has to come down to design. The non-motorway and non duel carriageway roads we are using - quite often… if not most of the time… were simply not designed for trucks.
It would be silly to ban trucks, so the answer goes back to the design and layout of roads.
One thing for certain, if there were dedicated cycle lanes - separated in the way they are in Holland, it would put this issue almost entirely behind us. The issue here is that the government now and all those before will sacrifice a few cyclists, and leave drivers mentally unwell with PTSD for the rest of their lives - rather than spend the money on a proper solution.
Until then, I think your idea of cross interest discussion is the best suggestion so far.
That said, tight control over anger management by mods will no doubt be required.
It’s a fact that lorries have blind spots, the driver also has to look down the other side of their vehicle through the mirrors and look forwards through the windscreen too.
So at times a small object (especially in a mirror) like a cyclist will enter the blindspot unseen, sometimes with tragic results.
The rules of the road do not allow undertaking, yet cyclists are free to belt along up the inside of vehicles, this breaks those rules, but far worse, it allows the cyclist to put themselves into a position of extreme danger.
Any collision between a fragile cyclist and a solid vehicle is going to have a bad ending.
Surely common sense would tell the cyclist to be very careful around any vehicle at a junction, especially vehicles with limited vision? Most of these collisions are the result of a lorry turning left on a cyclist roaring up the inside as far as I can work out.
Pedestrians manage to avoid it, motorcycle riders manage to avoid it and 99.9% of car drivers manage to avoid it, yet cyclists don’t seem to be so fortunate.
Could this be because they put themselves in a position of danger by the way they tear arse around, stopping for nobody, with the goal of faster journey times through the traffic? Any other vehicle moving a lot faster than the rest of the traffic is going to have a big crash at some point.
Maybe it is time the self propelled mob worked this out for themselves
I think its clear that the majority of truck drivers using this forum are more than aware of the dangers surrounding cyclists, none of us want to go home having killed someone, But and it is a big BUT the guys on bikes also have a responsibility for their own welfare- too many make stupid decisions and place themselves in danger. As an industry we are fitting more mirrors, educating drivers, fitting warning signs to our vehicles and doing everything we can do to minimise the risk- all that counts for nothing the first time a cyclist decides he can beat you at the lights and squeezes up your inside and then sits in the blind spot.
We can only do so much, cyclists themselves have to take responsibility for their own actions - Any campaign should not be called “Truckers be Cyclist aware” it should be “Cyclist be truck aware” because the unfortunate truth is between a truck and cyclist there is only one person that’s going to get hurt- and one hard working person who is going to have to live with what happened - my message to cyclists is- quite simply stay back, stay in sight and don’t take the risk We have had the education and are aware, but the onus cannot be completely on us, Cyclists have to be educated too- and don’t blame the truck driver if you make a stupid decision, Your welfare and safety is in your own hands- Think … before we have another tradegy
albion1971:
This accident happened in London and although the cyclist maybe should not have been where she was the accident could have been avoided if the driver had signalled at the correct time and checked his mirrors properly.
Another one:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ction.html
I’m not disagreeing with you on this Albion as we all have to work together, in the instance above a faulty indicator is mentioned, now its easy for a bulb to go or become dislodged which is yet another factor for truck drivers to consider.
Trucks can have all the stickers they like warning cyclist not to trundle up the inside but we need some co-operation from cyclists as well.
Boomerang Dave:
Dipper_Dave:
Although the circumstances surrounding etc etc…I’m with you most of the way Dave, but I just don’t see how legislating against cyclists would work.
Personally - making training part of the school curriculum would be a good starting point IMO. But no direct action against current bike users… especially the very young ones.
I think possibly every truck driver has encountered the scenario you described.
It seems to me wholly unfair to target cyclists with new legislation when they are the major victims in this. I see no logic in strengthening the existing laws against truck drivers either, so it has to come down to design. The non-motorway and non duel carriageway roads we are using - quite often… if not most of the time… were simply not designed for trucks.
It would be silly to ban trucks, so the answer goes back to the design and layout of roads.
One thing for certain, if there were dedicated cycle lanes - separated in the way they are in Holland, it would put this issue almost entirely behind us. The issue here is that the government now and all those before will sacrifice a few cyclists, and leave drivers mentally unwell with PTSD for the rest of their lives - rather than spend the money on a proper solution.
The government doesn’t need to spend money when the existing pavement netwqork is entirely satisfactory for cycle use in most cases.As for youngsters being trained to ride cycles on the road instead of on the pavement that’s an even more stupid idea that will lead to even more younger casualties.
I can remember a stupid copper booking me for riding my bike to school along here on the pavement long before the council put in the idea of this idiotic cycle lane.I can also remember what my dad called the zb when he closed the door behind him after the lecture at home that evening. 
Carryfast:
It’s a bit naive to think that cyclists see it your way.To them they are all that matters no one else with support of the equally stupid thick zb’s in government which is why cyclists regularly ignore cycleways and continue on the road and it’s also why the government allows them to do it.While the fact is even under your utopian vision you’ll face a far worse penalty for turning left on or even snagging a cyclist who’s ridden along the nearside than they would for doing it.
True its naive and utopian thinking on my part, but I have to consider that not every cyclist want’s to be a nuisance and risk thier lives for the sake of a few seconds further up the que.
If its made an on the spot penalty offence for cyclists to undertake a LGV at a junction in free-flowing traffic (not gridlock where a cyclist can proceed with care) this may at least save one life, which is all its ever about just making that one difference makes it worthwhile.
The minority (hopefully its minority) who continue to make the same mistakes can’t be helped until that near miss moment that shocks them back into reality.
Boomerang Dave:
Personally - making training part of the school curriculum would be a good starting point IMO. But no direct action against current bike users… especially the very young ones.
I remember doing one of those cycling proficiency course’s, which was basically cycling round cones for a bit. Not sure if these still take place but an hour spent in the classroom explaining the dangers HGV vehicles represent woul be a great addition.
I’m not talking shock tactic videos but just some explanation of the potential dangers would be a start.
Rikki-UK:
As an industry we are fitting more mirrors, educating drivers, fitting warning signs to our vehicles and doing everything we can do to minimise the risk- all that counts for nothing the first time a cyclist decides he can beat you at the lights and squeezes up your inside and then sits in the blind spot.
I couldn’t agree more Rikki, would you be able to maybe message the admin of the most popular cycling forum (I haven’t a clue which one it is) to invite them into this discussion and perhaps working together we can make a difference.
Maybe by combining our voices a petition could be sent into govt that might just save one life.
Truck drivers do not go out of their way to kill cyclists and cyclists don’t go out of their way to get killed but something is wrong we can have mirrors coming out of our arses but whats needed is for cyclists to be aware of the dangers, which I’m sure most are but theres always a few that will take a chance.