robroy:
Rog sorry if this is a dumb ■■■ question
RTD = Road Transport Directive which is the mobile workers WTD or RT(WT)D to give it its proper title
WTD = Working Time directive for non mobile workers
Kerbdog:
The EU’s working time directive working in complete harmony with their driving hours rules as you can see
For many drivers, it does end up being that way, especially if you’re doing trunk runs or long distance runs.
Kerbdog:
On multi drop it’s something that catches me out too, I always end up having 30 minutes due to booking times and the WTD 6 hour rule and then you end up having to take a further 30 minutes to satisfy tacho regs usually because you can easily reach the 6 hours on WTD before 4.5 hours driving with multi drops.
So why not just turn the first 30 minute break into a 45 minute one and then you’ve not only satisfied the WTD and the tacho regs but have shaved 15 minutes off your day which you can either use to go a bit slower and reduce the stress or get home earlier?
Can’t believe you’ve not worked that out.
Kerbdog:
Nice to see more regulations not causing too much confusion. When I get out of bed I will upload my infringements which clearly states a fine for not having a 30 minute break from 5hrs or so (the time of my 1st break) and then 11 hours or so and details of the enforceable fixed penalty I could have got !
One thing you need to bear in mind here is that a LOT of tacho analysis software still after all these years incorrectly thinks that you have to have 30min at the 6h point.
If your employer uses said inaccurate software and you don’t want to rack up infringments then sadly you’re going to have to stick to their incorrect rules.
Paul
Conor:
Kerbdog:
On multi drop it’s something that catches me out too, I always end up having 30 minutes due to booking times and the WTD 6 hour rule and then you end up having to take a further 30 minutes to satisfy tacho regs usually because you can easily reach the 6 hours on WTD before 4.5 hours driving with multi drops.So why not just turn the first 30 minute break into a 45 minute one and then you’ve not only satisfied the WTD and the tacho regs but have shaved 15 minutes off your day which you can either use to go a bit slower and reduce the stress or get home earlier?
Can’t believe you’ve not worked that out.
Agree with that or the other way round witch I normally do.
Book on 07.00, work and drive till 13.00, take 15 min break, now sattisfied the WTD and the first part of a 45 for driving time.
If my driving will exceed 4.5hrs for the day, Il take the other 30 maybe and hour or so later, Ive now sattisfied WTD as my shift is 8 hrs long and obviously the tacho regs.
If i do all of the above but dont get to drive 4.5 on a particular day, the second break will only be a 15 so a total of 30 mins for the day.
Job done.
Taffos!:
I stand to be corrected but if you work 6hrs and have had no break the minimum that can be taken is 30 mins isn’t it? :S
I thought it was 30 mins as well. You’d have to know your total shift length is going to be less than 8 hours for a 15 min break to be ok?
Most of us have no idea what time we’re going to finish at the 6hrs in mark, so just take the 30 minute break and a second 30 minute break before the 4:30m driving mark to keep everyone happy.
I’ve got these infrigements from wincanton because they’ll have you working a 15 hour shift as standard, and muggins neglects to take a third 30 minute break by the 15hr shift’s end, having taken two 30 min breaks earlier in the shift. (30 mins by 5:59 in, and another 30 mins to zero the 4.5hr clock any time between 6&12 hrs, but usually around the 7-8 mark, thus needing another 30 mins at the 13-14hr in mark.
I see other drivers in front of me being hauled over the coals because they dared to take 90 mins of breaks when they’re only having 1hr deducted for breaks from their agency pay. 
Kinda puts you off attempting the same thing, so I ended up getting an infringement instead.
Now, I just take breaks when I need to, and I get left alone so far, so it seems “doing what the directive says” seems to work better than “keeping the office happy” when it comes to who, what, why, and when. 
Winseer:
I thought it was 30 mins as well. You’d have to know your total shift length is going to be less than 8 hours for a 15 min break to be ok?
You have not quite got it
If the total work in a shift is 6 hours or less than no RTD break is required
If the total work in a shift is between 6 and 9 hours then total breaks of 30 mins are required but that break total can be in 2 x 15 min breaks - during that 6 to 9 hours of work no period must be more than 6 hours without a break of at least 15 mins
If the total work in a shift is more than 9 hours then the total amount of breaks must be 45 mins which again can be split into 3 x 15 min breaks at anytime during that shift as long as there is not a period where the work gets to more than 6 hours without a 15 min break being taken
Some work must be done after a break for that break to count
Winseer:
Taffos!:
I stand to be corrected but if you work 6hrs and have had no break the minimum that can be taken is 30 mins isn’t it? :SI thought it was 30 mins as well. You’d have to know your total shift length is going to be less than 8 hours for a 15 min break to be ok?
You don’t need to know what time you’ll finish, the WTD breaks can be split into 15 minutes parts, and regardless of the shift length can be taken at any time during the shift except the immediate start and end of the shift, the only stipulation is that you should not at any time during the shift exceed 6 hours working time without a 15 minute break.
ROG:
Winseer:
I thought it was 30 mins as well. You’d have to know your total shift length is going to be less than 8 hours for a 15 min break to be ok?You have not quite got it
If the total work in a shift is 6 hours or less than no RTD break is required
If the total work in a shift is between 6 and 9 hours then total breaks of 30 mins are required but that break total can be in 2 x 15 min breaks - during that 6 to 9 hours of work no period must be more than 6 hours without a break of at least 15 mins
If the total work in a shift is more than 9 hours then the total amount of breaks must be 45 mins which again can be split into 3 x 15 min breaks at anytime during that shift as long as there is not a period where the work gets to more than 6 hours without a 15 min break being taken
Some work must be done after a break for that break to count
Sorry bud, that’s just plain wrong. 15+30 or 45. NOT 15+15+15 nor 30+15.
I’m of course assuming the job in question is “full time driver” rather than “indoor person who does a bit of part time driving”. 
Glad to see the driver CPC is proving to be invaluable 
Winseer:
Sorry bud, that’s just plain wrong. 15+30 or 45. NOT 15+15+15 nor 30+15.
I’m of course assuming the job in question is “full time driver” rather than “indoor person who does a bit of part time driving”.
This was soley about the RTD and not the tacho regs - had it been including tacho regs then the answer would be different
repton:
One thing you need to bear in mind here is that a LOT of tacho analysis software still after all these years incorrectly thinks that you have to have 30min at the 6h point.
Company I’m with at present work to this. I’ve got two “infringements” through it and no matter how much I argue I’m wrong because the computer says so.
Does anyone have a link to the relevant law that I can download as a pdf?
Stan
Second break must be 30 minutes, so I’m thinking 15+15+15 is right out.
Of course, if you’re not running into the 4.5hr driving time rule, you can do 15+15+15 I guess, but then you’d not be a driver!
Are there any jobs considered to be “full time driver” out there where you’d expect to be turning the wheels less than 4.5hrs per day?
Right then ---- think i have finally got this -but please check
WTD ONLY
My first shift of 6 hours means i am entitled to a 15 min break - this is the only time i can take the break at the end of a period.
Once i start to work between 6 and 9 hours - i am entitiled to another 15 min break - but this cannot be taken right at the end of this period
Once i work over 9 hours i am entitled to another 15 min break but again this cannot be taken right at the end of this period.
I can take my 30 mins - at any point in the upto 9 hour shift… as long as its not at the start or the end and i wont have worked for 6 consecutive hours
I can take my 45 mins - at any point in the upto 12 hour shift - as long as i have not worked for more than 6 consecutive hours
Whats the rules after the 12 hours sorry ■■
thank you
Essexboy:
Glad to see the driver CPC is proving to be invaluable
Yeah - it would if these peole actually attended and listened
Winseer:
Driver's Hours - BasicsSecond break must be 30 minutes, so I’m thinking 15+15+15 is right out.
Of course, if you’re not running into the 4.5hr driving time rule, you can do 15+15+15 I guess, but then you’d not be a driver!
Are there any jobs considered to be “full time driver” out there where you’d expect to be turning the wheels less than 4.5hrs per day?
Nice of hgvcity to qute the rules completely wrong eh? “First break must be at least 30 minutes.” Where’s it say that in the rules then?
Jenson Button:
Right then ---- think i have finally got this -but please checkWTD ONLY
My first shift of 6 hours means i am entitled to a 15 min break - this is the only time i can take the break at the end of a period.
Once i start to work between 6 and 9 hours - i am entitiled to another 15 min break - but this cannot be taken right at the end of this period
Once i work over 9 hours i am entitled to another 15 min break but again this cannot be taken right at the end of this period.
I can take my 30 mins - at any point in the upto 9 hour shift… as long as its not at the start or the end and i wont have worked for 6 consecutive hours
I can take my 45 mins - at any point in the upto 12 hour shift - as long as i have not worked for more than 6 consecutive hoursWhats the rules after the 12 hours sorry ■■
thank you
no extra rules covering work in a shift after 12 hours - just work over 9 hours in a shift
You have still not got it because you are putting every little bit into its own time-box and that is not how it works
Its all to do with the actual amount of work done in a shift
There is a certain total amount of break required depending on how long that work is in the shift
The 6 hour rule runs all the way through the shift
Stanley Knife:
Does anyone have a link to the relevant law that I can download as a pdf?
legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005 … ion/7/made
(1) No mobile worker shall work for more than six hours without a break.
(2) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds six hours but does not exceed nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 30 minutes and interrupting that time.
(3) Where a mobile worker’s working time exceeds nine hours, the worker shall be entitled to a break lasting at least 45 minutes and interrupting that period.
(4) Each break may be made up of separate periods of not less than 15 minutes each…
Numbers 1 and 4 are the two relevant for the 6 hour periods and minimum breaks required
Numbers 2 and 3 are for the total breaks required for the work done in a shift
What many do is to wrongly put 1 and 2 together
also remember, if you work over 9 hours but under 4.5 hours driving, your 45 mins of break can be taken as a 20m and a 25m, a 16m and a 29m etc. Just as long as each break is at least 15 mins and you don’t exceed 6 hours of work without a break
Lets see if this makes it any clearer.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If your total working time does not exceed 6 hours these are the RT(WT)R break rules that apply to you
If your working time finishes at or before 6 hours you do not need to take a break.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If your total working time is more than 6 hours but not more than 9 hours these are the RT(WT)R break rules that apply to you
You should have a break of at-least 30 minutes.
The 30 minute break can be taken in 2 separate breaks of at-least 15 minutes each, but neither of the breaks should start at the immediate start of the shift or finish at the immediate end of the shift.
If the break is taken in 2 separate parts, one of the 15 minute breaks must start before you exceed 6 hours working time.
If a complete 30 minute break is taken it must start before you exceed 6 hours working time.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If your total working time is more than 9 hours these are the RT(WT)R break rules that apply to you
If your working time is more than 9 hours you should have a break of at-least 45 minutes.
The 45 minute break can be taken in separate breaks of at-least 15 minutes each, but none of the breaks should start at the immediate start of the shift or finish at the immediate end of the shift.
If the break is taken in separate parts, one of the 15 minute breaks must start before you exceed 6 hours working time.
At no time during the shift should your working time exceed 6 hours without a break of at-least 15 minutes.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Where appropriate RT(WT)R breaks count for the driving breaks and vice versa.
