Pro drivers ignore the wtd
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UKtramp:
I don’t ever use POA, it is a very grey area. Much simpler to use break, other work and driving. 3 simple modes and one of them does it automatically. break and other work you can’t go wrong with (unless you put it on break then touch your curtains) which I have witnessed many times.
Spot on, if u aint driving or working then u are resting.
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Rjan:
stevieboy308:
the maoster:
Rjan:
At the very least, I fail to see the practical distinction between POA and break.As the quango who created and implemented the 48 hour limit congratulated themselves on a job well done and toasted themselves with taxpayer funded caviar washed down with Moët & Chandon someone realised with a dawning horror what a 48 hour limit might actually mean in real terms to the haulage business. This dawning realisation resulted in a panicky knee jerk reaction in creating a cop out that previously did not exist; thus POA was proudly presented to its new parents.
But break has the same effect. I think it was brought in purely so the odd drivers who get all recorded breaks deducted aren’t penalised
I find this the most plausible explanation, that it’s designed simply so that employers can distinguish the difference between what are essentially two different reasons for a driver spending time doing no work.
As far as the WTD goes, POA (properly used) is equivalent to break.
Maoster’s rubbish about the working time quango is just that. If the POA mode didn’t exist, a driver could simply use the break mode to exactly the same effect.
POA is like being on call, Break is what it says a break. You need breaks to comply with both the WTD and drivers hours regs.
Sand Fisher:
POA is like being on call, Break is what it says a break. You need breaks to comply with both the WTD and drivers hours regs.
No it isn’t like being on call. If you are on call and might be asked to resume work at any moment, then the waiting time must be recorded as other work.
TiredAndEmotional:
Rjan:
[…]POA was brought thought up purely to pacify the large logistics companies who screamed very loudly when the WTD was introduced. You owe Maoster an apology!
I owe him nothing in terms of the rubbish about taxpayer funded caviar.
The only people having caviar funded are the bosses, on the back of long hours and poor pay in this game, and indeed never-ending tax breaks to bosses who think the state should be paying all their operating costs and that they shouldn’t have to contribute a penny to the infrastructure of our society.
But as for POA, I’m still waiting for an explanation of why it covers circumstances where the break mode cannot be used.
POA was introduced to appease the Belgian truckers, if you are on break you cannot officially carry out a duty classed as work including answering the cab phone, the Belgians only got paid for when they actually worked so to sit in a bay with the mode on rest would see them out of pocket, to sit on a bay on other work would build up their working hours and the WTD states an average of 48 hours per week over 26 ( or 17 ) meaning they would be stood down unpaid for days at a time, but using POA they are still on duty and available meaning they can work if needed, plus the accrued POA hours can be used to balance out the weekly hours should they go over 48.
transportsfriend.org/wtd/poa.html
There’s probably a someone who will have another reason
Rjan:
But as for POA, I’m still waiting for an explanation of why it covers circumstances where the break mode cannot be used.
At a guess, the advantage of POA is that it can be interrupted without penalty. For example, on the odd occasion I do an RDC, I’ll ask how long I’ll be waiting then put it on POA (not on break because I’m not free to dispose of my time in a way I see fit). If I’m done early, it doesn’t matter that I didn’t get the full amount of time I need to reset my driving/working time, but the clock has still been paused.
When I was working, once I was on site I was working irrespective of sitting around waiting 2 hrs for a motor or load and booking the time as POA.
NO WAY would I go 8 hrs with only 15 minute break just because WTD says I can,if I had to have done that then I would have been moving on.
As for breaks if I was not free to do as I wanted then it was not a break,POA is not a break its Period Of Availability and you can be called on anytime to work,therefore your not free to do as you want.
Same old thing Drivers are their own worst enemy,thats why a good few are treated like something you have trodden in.
Grumpy Dad:
POA was introduced to appease the Belgian truckers, if you are on break you cannot officially carry out a duty classed as work including answering the cab phone, the Belgians only got paid for when they actually worked so to sit in a bay with the mode on rest would see them out of pocket, to sit on a bay on other work would build up their working hours and the WTD states an average of 48 hours per week over 26 ( or 17 ) meaning they would be stood down unpaid for days at a time, but using POA they are still on duty and available meaning they can work if needed, plus the accrued POA hours can be used to balance out the weekly hours should they go over 48.transportsfriend.org/wtd/poa.html
There’s probably a someone who will have another reason
I find that link doesn’t make logical sense.
If you are required to be available to take calls to resume work, then it follows that you do not know the duration of the POA in advance.
Unless you’re in some sort of absurd situation where the employer requires you to be available in principle, but promises not to actually call you.
This is why I say that POA logically collapses into either break or other work, and that it’s only conceivable use is to distinguish mandatory breaks from those breaks which arise due to no active duties being possible for a fixed period.
Captain Caveman 76:
Rjan:
But as for POA, I’m still waiting for an explanation of why it covers circumstances where the break mode cannot be used.At a guess, the advantage of POA is that it can be interrupted without penalty. For example, on the odd occasion I do an RDC, I’ll ask how long I’ll be waiting then put it on POA (not on break because I’m not free to dispose of my time in a way I see fit). If I’m done early, it doesn’t matter that I didn’t get the full amount of time I need to reset my driving/working time, but the clock has still been paused.
I don’t see that POA can be interrupted early any more so than a break can.
Obviously, unforeseeable reasons might occasionally require interruption (same as for break), but if you’re doing it regularly then you don’t know the period of waiting in advance (which is the necessary condition for using POA).
I imagine the only reason the DVSA would struggle to enforce is because it’s impossible to prove that a driver was called on early, as opposed to just resuming work at his own leisure (the same as it would be difficult if a driver took 20 mins break, to decide whether he took a leisurely 15 minutes or interrupted a 45 mins).
Rjan:
Grumpy Dad:
POA was introduced to appease the Belgian truckers, if you are on break you cannot officially carry out a duty classed as work including answering the cab phone, the Belgians only got paid for when they actually worked so to sit in a bay with the mode on rest would see them out of pocket, to sit on a bay on other work would build up their working hours and the WTD states an average of 48 hours per week over 26 ( or 17 ) meaning they would be stood down unpaid for days at a time, but using POA they are still on duty and available meaning they can work if needed, plus the accrued POA hours can be used to balance out the weekly hours should they go over 48.transportsfriend.org/wtd/poa.html
There’s probably a someone who will have another reason
I find that link doesn’t make logical sense.
If you are required to be available to take calls to resume work, then it follows that you do not know the duration of the POA in advance.
Unless you’re in some sort of absurd situation where the employer requires you to be available in principle, but promises not to actually call you.
This is why I say that POA logically collapses into either break or other work, and that it’s only conceivable use is to distinguish mandatory breaks from those breaks which arise due to no active duties being possible for a fixed period.
I don’t think it means there’s a pre arranged time for the phone to ring, more in the lines of if it does ring you can answer it whereas during a break answering a all would be class as an interruption.
Like I put there will be someone who will no doubt be able to fathom it out and explain
selby newcomer:
Your friend is right
.
Grumpy Dad:
Rjan:
Grumpy Dad:
POA was introduced to appease the Belgian truckers, if you are on break you cannot officially carry out a duty classed as work including answering the cab phone, the Belgians only got paid for when they actually worked so to sit in a bay with the mode on rest would see them out of pocket, to sit on a bay on other work would build up their working hours and the WTD states an average of 48 hours per week over 26 ( or 17 ) meaning they would be stood down unpaid for days at a time, but using POA they are still on duty and available meaning they can work if needed, plus the accrued POA hours can be used to balance out the weekly hours should they go over 48.transportsfriend.org/wtd/poa.html
There’s probably a someone who will have another reason
I find that link doesn’t make logical sense.
If you are required to be available to take calls to resume work, then it follows that you do not know the duration of the POA in advance.
Unless you’re in some sort of absurd situation where the employer requires you to be available in principle, but promises not to actually call you.
This is why I say that POA logically collapses into either break or other work, and that it’s only conceivable use is to distinguish mandatory breaks from those breaks which arise due to no active duties being possible for a fixed period.
I don’t think it means there’s a pre arranged time for the phone to ring, more in the lines of if it does ring you can answer it whereas during a break answering a all would be class as an interruption.
Like I put there will be someone who will no doubt be able to fathom it out and explain
There’s nothing in the regs that says a break can’t be interupted and must be completed once started, it’s perfectly acceptable to take a 10 break, it just won’t reset anything.
Any of the differences between break and poa are uncheckable, but they had to make the requirements slightly different…so that they are different
stevieboy308:
There’s nothing in the regs that says a break can’t be interupted and must be completed once started, it’s perfectly acceptable to take a 10 break, it just won’t reset anything.
Yes but the break must allow you to wind down and relax away from performing your duties.
If the regularity of interruptions suggests that you’re actually on call during your breaks, then the entire period is not break, and you’re making improper use of the mode switch.
A classic example would be putting it on break in a heavy traffic jam. If you’re sat at the wheel ready to move with traffic, but taking a chance that it’s 15 minutes between each movement (or using the facility to make short movements whilst remaining on break mode), then it is not actually a break at all.
Rjan:
stevieboy308:
There’s nothing in the regs that says a break can’t be interupted and must be completed once started, it’s perfectly acceptable to take a 10 break, it just won’t reset anything.Yes but the break must allow you to wind down and relax away from performing your duties.
If the regularity of interruptions suggests that you’re actually on call during your breaks, then the entire period is not break, and you’re making improper use of the mode switch.
A classic example would be putting it on break in a heavy traffic jam. If you’re sat at the wheel ready to move with traffic, but taking a chance that it’s 15 minutes between each movement (or using the facility to make short movements whilst remaining on break mode), then it is not actually a break at all.
Page 11 explains POA
Situations when a period of time should not be recorded as a POA
Where a driver is diverted due to a road closure, he/she would still be driving so the period could not be counted as a POA.
Delays due to congestion (i.e. stuck in a traffic jam) would not count as a POA because the driver would be stopping and starting the vehicle.