The tk parcel shelf slept on it in the 80,s on furniture truck ,we had a marsden a hole was cut in the roof above the cab and a mattress put in the Luton ,it was climb up through the hatch into bed ,or climb in back and sleep on a sofa good days then ,I have even slept on a trailer loaded with pulp under the sheets you won’t be able to do that in these times
Well I had many a nights good sleep on the back of my AEC Mammoth 8 Wheeler with a drip sheet as they were called in the old days (Fly sheets in later years) I used to drape it from the head board like a tent & roll a main sheet out to make a bed, Plus it was warm in my sleeping bag, I never took any hurt from doing this & in later years when I had my own wagons I had a fold down bunks in them until I bought a Sedaki with a sleeper cab, Drivers today have very good sleeper cabbed motors IMO, But why not they live on the job after all,Regards Larry.
Bewick,
Good morning Dennis,
Re: your post about the digs in Llansamlet , I started driving a four wheeler in early 65 and can remember a cafe
at what was known as the Star in Llansamlet called iirc Walfords.
Would that be the digs you refer to ?.
Regards, Allan
Mrsteel:
Bewick,
Good morning Dennis,
Re: your post about the digs in Llansamlet , I started driving a four wheeler in early 65 and can remember a cafe
at what was known as the Star in Llansamlet called iirc Walfords.
Would that be the digs you refer to ?.
Regards, Allan
Hi Allan, Yes they were the Digs in Llansamlet, we always called them Walfords , the Café and digs were owned by a Mrs. Phillips or “MA” as we called her. The café was run by her Son Walford which is where the name came from. Ma Phillips lived up the road a bit in a nice house, it was up past The Smiths Arms which was the boozer we used when we were there. Ma was always good for a pint or two a really great Lady she was ! Cheers Dennis.
My God,some of you old boys certainly wind me up,in the 1960s/1970s this transport job was more than a A TO B JOB LIKE AT LOT OF YOUS have and moan about it,what you did you followed the old boys ,what they did and where they sleep wherever you were etc.because that was the way it was in road transport. i and many, many ,other drivers used to sleep in the "luton " ewell the compartment for fodder ,on HAY inside the empty unwashed out cattle box,and be glad to get your head down i can tell you and hope there was a tap near by if not you waited…
What you youngster have got to remember,no such thing as sleepers were about,in 1965 when i started driving a cattle truck all the old boys i worked with drove during the 2nd world war and they only slept inside on the bonnet,covered in blankets and old army great coats or inside the box in the open luton not many will remember them. you may say ahh well ,you did not have to do the job ,yes ok,but we wanted to ,we wanted to be drivers at 21 or some men ear liar age, not like a lot of yous who decided their present job is boring so lets get driving it looks good ,nice trucks lovely curtains ,except what you got and get on with it…
This is a modern take on an old story, I like the ingenuity, I suppose he could also use the crane jib as a ridge pole and drape his fly sheet, making a tent. 
Regards Kev.
Ps. I was sent this without any info, could it possibly be a Spanish no plate?
kevmac47:
This is a modern take on an old story, I like the ingenuity, I suppose he could also use the crane jib as a ridge pole and drape his fly sheet, making a tent.
Ps. I was sent this without any info, could it possibly be a Spanish no plate?0
Hiya Kev, I think it’s a French outfit, nice way of working on your tan eh 
Another late thought on this thread crossed my mind, allowed maximum vehicle lengths meaning short tractor wheelbases.
The existing designs of tractor units back then were based on very short wheelbases, a full sized sleeper on the back and you’d never turn a deep pin trailer even if you could get the thing to hitch up in the first place.
To confirm how short they were, another driver was on Ferrymasters work, he drove an S40 Foden day cab which could cope with the deep pin continental trailers, as could the S80 day cabs and Leyland Buffalos when the regular bloke was on holiday.
One day they sent me, i drove an S39 Foden day cab (obviously) at the time, even with that day cab i couldn’t even hitch the thing up without the trailer hitting the back of the cab, sliding fifth wheels didn’t exist then, at least not on that fleet.
That must have been something to do with why it took the UK makers so long to design longer wheelbase larger tractors, type approval, legislation and simply the cost of coming up with new designs, iot wasn’t until the foreign makes had gained such a foothold that the UK makers woke up, by then it was too late, even if the motors were as good if not better and yes in my humble the 80’s Brit motors were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and superior in many cases, especially with ■■■■■■■ engines.
The dealers and back up were woefully lacking, ie overnight servicing unheard of, the Brit wagon industry destroyed itself one way or another, complacency like the motorcyle and car makers of the time who didn’t take foreign competition seriously?
Juddian:
Another late thought on this thread crossed my mind, allowed maximum vehicle lengths meaning short tractor wheelbases.
The existing designs of tractor units back then were based on very short wheelbases, a full sized sleeper on the back and you’d never turn a deep pin trailer even if you could get the thing to hitch up in the first place.To confirm how short they were, another driver was on Ferrymasters work, he drove an S40 Foden day cab which could cope with the deep pin continental trailers, as could the S80 day cabs and Leyland Buffalos when the regular bloke was on holiday.
One day they sent me, i drove an S39 Foden day cab (obviously) at the time, even with that day cab i couldn’t even hitch the thing up without the trailer hitting the back of the cab, sliding fifth wheels didn’t exist then, at least not on that fleet.That must have been something to do with why it took the UK makers so long to design longer wheelbase larger tractors, type approval, legislation and simply the cost of coming up with new designs, iot wasn’t until the foreign makes had gained such a foothold that the UK makers woke up, by then it was too late, even if the motors were as good if not better and yes in my humble the 80’s Brit motors were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and superior in many cases, especially with ■■■■■■■ engines.
The dealers and back up were woefully lacking, ie overnight servicing unheard of, the Brit wagon industry destroyed itself one way or another, complacency like the motorcyle and car makers of the time who didn’t take foreign competition seriously?
Excellent points made there ^^^. Even well into the '80s, if you went to pick up a Continental trailer on dock traction work with a sleeper-cabbed unit you had to work out whether or not you could get underneath a long-pin trailer without surgically removing the cab.
You’re right we used to pull Hako tilts out of Hull in the 70’s and only our Guy big J’s could get under them we had to fit sliders on the ERF 's which wasn’t ideal,so a sleeper was a no no.
Most Transport firms, back in the my early years, only operated in the UK there was never a need for “sleepers”.As many have said most Drivers had their little “red book” for “digs” and back loads. Rules and Reg`s stipulations about vehicle lengths played a part because Companies where more interested in what they could get on a trailer rather than losing space by having “sleepers”. Things started to change when the UK manufactures started to be taken over by the likes of DAF and MAN whose production was based on “sleepers” they became approximately £800 cheaper to buy than “day cabs” as it would have meant changing the production lines to suit.
When “door to door” time critical deliveries to and from Europe took off, rather than having wagon sitting on the Docks like Liverpool and London for days it became necessary to modernise to keep up with the times albeit ,later than others. It was the mentality of a large percentage of company Bosses,why spend out until you have to,too survive.
Juddian:
Another late thought on this thread crossed my mind, allowed maximum vehicle lengths meaning short tractor wheelbases.
The existing designs of tractor units back then were based on very short wheelbases, a full sized sleeper on the back and you’d never turn a deep pin trailer even if you could get the thing to hitch up in the first place.To confirm how short they were, another driver was on Ferrymasters work, he drove an S40 Foden day cab which could cope with the deep pin continental trailers, as could the S80 day cabs and Leyland Buffalos when the regular bloke was on holiday.
One day they sent me, i drove an S39 Foden day cab (obviously) at the time, even with that day cab i couldn’t even hitch the thing up without the trailer hitting the back of the cab, sliding fifth wheels didn’t exist then, at least not on that fleet.That must have been something to do with why it took the UK makers so long to design longer wheelbase larger tractors, type approval, legislation and simply the cost of coming up with new designs, iot wasn’t until the foreign makes had gained such a foothold that the UK makers woke up, by then it was too late, even if the motors were as good if not better and yes in my humble the 80’s Brit motors were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and superior in many cases, especially with ■■■■■■■ engines.
The dealers and back up were woefully lacking, ie overnight servicing unheard of, the Brit wagon industry destroyed itself one way or another, complacency like the motorcyle and car makers of the time who didn’t take foreign competition seriously?
Did you run out of fm desborough?, we put a jennings on the atkinson i drove , had to move the 5th wheel back 1 hole,
It was nudging the sleeper on turns with the fm trailers, made it a bit heavy on the drive axle.
tony
tonyj105:
Juddian:
Did you run out of fm desborough?, we put a jennings on the atkinson i drove , had to move the 5th wheel back 1 hole,
It was nudging the sleeper on turns with the fm trailers, made it a bit heavy on the drive axle.
tony
You did bloody well to get a Borderer with pod in front of a Ferrymasters.
Juddian:
Another late thought on this thread crossed my mind, allowed maximum vehicle lengths meaning short tractor wheelbases.
The existing designs of tractor units back then were based on very short wheelbases, a full sized sleeper on the back and you’d never turn a deep pin trailer even if you could get the thing to hitch up in the first place.To confirm how short they were, another driver was on Ferrymasters work, he drove an S40 Foden day cab which could cope with the deep pin continental trailers, as could the S80 day cabs and Leyland Buffalos when the regular bloke was on holiday.
One day they sent me, i drove an S39 Foden day cab (obviously) at the time, even with that day cab i couldn’t even hitch the thing up without the trailer hitting the back of the cab, sliding fifth wheels didn’t exist then, at least not on that fleet.That must have been something to do with why it took the UK makers so long to design longer wheelbase larger tractors, type approval, legislation and simply the cost of coming up with new designs, iot wasn’t until the foreign makes had gained such a foothold that the UK makers woke up, by then it was too late, even if the motors were as good if not better and yes in my humble the 80’s Brit motors were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and superior in many cases, especially with ■■■■■■■ engines.
The dealers and back up were woefully lacking, ie overnight servicing unheard of, the Brit wagon industry destroyed itself one way or another, complacency like the motorcyle and car makers of the time who didn’t take foreign competition seriously?
To be fair Bedford TM and SA 400 were both there from at least the mid 1970’s.Both available ‘before’ Volvo F10/12 were introduced.
No wheelbase issues in either case the Bedford at least was being exported across Europe virtually from the start.
Whatever the problem it had nothing to do with type approval.More like skinflint Brit guvnors still running and even demanding new 50s/60’s type expectation vehicles well into the 1970’s.
Which leaves the question why was Bedford using a day cabbed TM with a TIR plate stuck on the front in its UK publicity shots knowing that it had more than a match for the F88 sleeper in its armoury available for UK spec order. 
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Another late thought on this thread crossed my mind, allowed maximum vehicle lengths meaning short tractor wheelbases.
The existing designs of tractor units back then were based on very short wheelbases, a full sized sleeper on the back and you’d never turn a deep pin trailer even if you could get the thing to hitch up in the first place.To confirm how short they were, another driver was on Ferrymasters work, he drove an S40 Foden day cab which could cope with the deep pin continental trailers, as could the S80 day cabs and Leyland Buffalos when the regular bloke was on holiday.
One day they sent me, i drove an S39 Foden day cab (obviously) at the time, even with that day cab i couldn’t even hitch the thing up without the trailer hitting the back of the cab, sliding fifth wheels didn’t exist then, at least not on that fleet.That must have been something to do with why it took the UK makers so long to design longer wheelbase larger tractors, type approval, legislation and simply the cost of coming up with new designs, iot wasn’t until the foreign makes had gained such a foothold that the UK makers woke up, by then it was too late, even if the motors were as good if not better and yes in my humble the 80’s Brit motors were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and superior in many cases, especially with ■■■■■■■ engines.
The dealers and back up were woefully lacking, ie overnight servicing unheard of, the Brit wagon industry destroyed itself one way or another, complacency like the motorcyle and car makers of the time who didn’t take foreign competition seriously?To be fair Bedford TM and SA 400 were both there from at least the mid 1970’s.Both available ‘before’ Volvo F10/12 were introduced.
No wheelbase issues in either case the Bedford at least was being exported across Europe virtually from the start.
Whatever the problem it had nothing to do with type approval.More like skinflint Brit guvnors still running and even demanding new 50s/60’s type expectation vehicles well into the 1970’s.
Which leaves the question why was Bedford using a day cabbed TM with a TIR plate stuck on the front in its UK publicity shots knowing that it had more than a match for the F88 sleeper in its armoury available for UK spec order.
Probably need to be careful not to confuse the Italian-spec 400 bhp Detroit TMs with the ones we had knocking around on dock traction in the UK, CF
ERF-NGC-European:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
Another late thought on this thread crossed my mind, allowed maximum vehicle lengths meaning short tractor wheelbases.
The existing designs of tractor units back then were based on very short wheelbases, a full sized sleeper on the back and you’d never turn a deep pin trailer even if you could get the thing to hitch up in the first place.To confirm how short they were, another driver was on Ferrymasters work, he drove an S40 Foden day cab which could cope with the deep pin continental trailers, as could the S80 day cabs and Leyland Buffalos when the regular bloke was on holiday.
One day they sent me, i drove an S39 Foden day cab (obviously) at the time, even with that day cab i couldn’t even hitch the thing up without the trailer hitting the back of the cab, sliding fifth wheels didn’t exist then, at least not on that fleet.That must have been something to do with why it took the UK makers so long to design longer wheelbase larger tractors, type approval, legislation and simply the cost of coming up with new designs, iot wasn’t until the foreign makes had gained such a foothold that the UK makers woke up, by then it was too late, even if the motors were as good if not better and yes in my humble the 80’s Brit motors were every bit as good as the foreign stuff and superior in many cases, especially with ■■■■■■■ engines.
The dealers and back up were woefully lacking, ie overnight servicing unheard of, the Brit wagon industry destroyed itself one way or another, complacency like the motorcyle and car makers of the time who didn’t take foreign competition seriously?To be fair Bedford TM and SA 400 were both there from at least the mid 1970’s.Both available ‘before’ Volvo F10/12 were introduced.
No wheelbase issues in either case the Bedford at least was being exported across Europe virtually from the start.
Whatever the problem it had nothing to do with type approval.More like skinflint Brit guvnors still running and even demanding new 50s/60’s type expectation vehicles well into the 1970’s.
Which leaves the question why was Bedford using a day cabbed TM with a TIR plate stuck on the front in its UK publicity shots knowing that it had more than a match for the F88 sleeper in its armoury available for UK spec order.Probably need to be careful not to confuse the Italian-spec 400 bhp Detroit TMs with the ones we had knocking around on dock traction in the UK, CF
Myth busted by two simple photos. 
Juddian:
tonyj105:
Juddian:
Did you run out of fm desborough?, we put a jennings on the atkinson i drove , had to move the 5th wheel back 1 hole,
It was nudging the sleeper on turns with the fm trailers, made it a bit heavy on the drive axle.
tonyYou did bloody well to get a Borderer with pod in front of a Ferrymasters.
I wasn’t going on ferrymasters without a sleeper, so it had to work,which it did, just.onu489j was x fb atkins and had the longer wheelbase Dad was all for buying one of billy eales in wellingboro’s mickey mouse fodens, now that defo wasn’t a goer.
Juddian:
tonyj105:
Juddian:
Did you run out of fm desborough?, we put a jennings on the atkinson i drove , had to move the 5th wheel back 1 hole,
It was nudging the sleeper on turns with the fm trailers, made it a bit heavy on the drive axle.
tonyYou did bloody well to get a Borderer with pod in front of a Ferrymasters.
I recall Pandoro trying to couple a Seddon 300 Series to a FM tilt - I think the only motors on the fleet that would physically couple - but it was about 3" over length. You may have seen the Tr*ck magazine test feature where Seddon turned up at a group test in Europe with a tractor that wouldn’t couple to the local test trailer because the unit was far too short. At that time, we didn’t have long neck trailers here, and the mish-mash of equipment of different dimensions and ages was a constant hassle, albeit probably less rigorously policed than it now might be! Anyone who has grown up with the modern standardised dimensions, especially around a 1.6m king pin, probably wouldn’t realise how it used to be! There’s European standardisation for you