Why is Road Haulage as a career declining?

Nicoleote=“Dafman”]

green456:

rivits:
Oh well I daresay when I was off for three months with a knee replacement I was a ■■■■ taker then!!! Our industry is nothing special is it not?? Well I wouldn’t like to see how the country would run without us!!!

what a ■■■■, how important am i :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Err actually very important, I have a report on my laptop, if I could remember the title I could find it on internet, and it tells you what happens when we, and obviously I don’t mean you green456 because I find it hard to believe your a driver, stop working, and I think by day three the country is stuffed. So yes I am important because I am a Lorry driver and I keep people fed and watered.
So up yours green456
[/quote]
Nice one Dafman and if he bothered to read the post it was about the state of the industry & its inability to attract new blood and nothing about me personally

Juddian:
Ok, i’ll bite.

As a lad i wanted to drive proper lorries which needed skill and strength to operate correctly, i never wanted this modern crap and i still don’t, so i wouldn’t be coming into it now cos its too bloody easy and any bloody fool can and does do it.
As a young driver i was mentored by a few old hands, they taught me the right way to do things, i enjoyed roping and sheeting (and took a pride in it) and all the hard graft, the day you gained the respect of the old hands was a day indeed, puppy with two tails time.

Whats missing most though is pride, pride in the job, pride in themselves and that driver common courtesy and mutual respect shown willingly to one another, all but bloody disappeared now.

Yes, to both these points. I’d give anything to go back to driving an ERF E series with a twin splitter. Or failing that, just something with a clutch pedal. Modern trucks are soooooo dull.

This topic often raises its head, not the OP, but the without lorries we would have SFA clap trap, it is true enough, but only to a point, fuel refinery workers would have the same impact if they went on strike, as would forklift drivers, no point having lorries with no diesel, or no method of loading them. Any number of industries could bring the country to its knees, so I don’t worship at that particular alter.

Now to the OP, a well articulated theory, but the answer was slightly off.

It is the entitlement mentality that is a sad fact of life that has the biggest impact. The youth of today expect to have everything they want handed to them on a plate.

I watched my old man work his tripe out as a kid, handball, roping and sheeting, kipping on a board over the engine cover, sweating like a pig in summer and wrapped up like Chris Bonnington in winter, it seems to have instilled a decent work ethic in me, my kids saw things different, everything on or off by forklift, power everything, sleeper cabs blah blah blah and they think it all comes easy.

Not only that, they don’t go out in the lorry anymore, thanks to jumped up H&S ■■■■■■■■, so it doesn’t get in the blood like it did when I was a kid spending every day I wasn’t at school (& some when I should have been) out in the lorry with my dad.

Because of that I spent most of my childhood with my Dad, he showed me the ropes (literally) and all I ever wanted to do was drive lorries.

It was different for me though, I have friends who only saw their estranged kids every other weekend and they probably saw more of them growing up than I saw of my kids, doing continental didn’t help in that respect, but the main factor was that they never came with me much.

That is the biggest factor in all of this as far as I’m concerned, the kids ain’t following in Dad’s footsteps any more :cry:

I’m 25, 26 this year, came into the job just under two years ago, the way I got interested in the job was I was a yard Shunter just with a car licence, got the bug to get out on the road so I decided to invest in my HGV licence, always enjoyed driving so thought why not get paid for it and earn a good wage. But when I started my lessons all the drivers in my work give me the old ohhhhh you don’t want to be getting into this job mate, even though there all on good wages, nice houses, families, cars etc, they still whinge. This is part of the problem I guess why more people aren’t coming into it and a lot of drivers do complain about the job, but when you’ve been in a warehouse picking etc having to get x amount of pick rates an hour or you get a bollocking, plus on a minimum wage, this jobs far from that. I do enjoy it and I understand that drivers are fed up of pay and conditions, but if you look at the bigger picture there’s a lot more worse jobs out there with not even half the pay most of us get

Kevwall:
I’m 25, 26 this year, came into the job just under two years ago, the way I got interested in the job was I was a yard Shunter just with a car licence, got the bug to get out on the road so I decided to invest in my HGV licence, always enjoyed driving so thought why not get paid for it and earn a good wage. But when I started my lessons all the drivers in my work give me the old ohhhhh you don’t want to be getting into this job mate, even though there all on good wages, nice houses, families, cars etc, they still whinge. This is part of the problem I guess why more people aren’t coming into it and a lot of drivers do complain about the job, but when you’ve been in a warehouse picking etc having to get x amount of pick rates an hour or you get a bollocking, plus on a minimum wage, this jobs far from that. I do enjoy it and I understand that drivers are fed up of pay and conditions, but if you look at the bigger picture there’s a lot more worse jobs out there with not even half the pay most of us get

Yes agree with you mate,a bloke at my old place of work has a house two kids a car and a holiday home and is always saying self stackers get more than drivers…get real!!!

Iv been around trucks all my life I’m 35 now and in school holidays I had to go in to work with my dad and sit in the office all day with comics and puzzle books,but I soon found that watching the trucks come and go got me interested in the industry.
I used to see many scania 143 and volvo fh come in to the yard to tip and I noticed how happy the drivers seemed and all had a good relationship with my dad who was the boss at this very busy place.
All the drivers seemed to dress fairly smart and keep up to there trucks and a brew was allways on offer as were toilet facilities and showers if needed.now roll on to present day my dad is nearing retirement and doing the same job at different firm (other one was taken over) and is rare he even has a civil word with the drivers,the odd one or two come and are polite and friendly but he says on the whole drivers attitudes today totally stink,turning up demanding to be tipped asking to use toilet and leaving crap all over it,stuff like this.
Is this a transport industry thing or a society thing??
I used to think a good job in transport would be a good career now I just see it as a job,one that I still enjoy a bit but no prospects and a lack of professionalism and pride is rife throughout the industry

yorkshire terrier:

Kevwall:
I’m 25, 26 this year, came into the job just under two years ago, the way I got interested in the job was I was a yard Shunter just with a car licence, got the bug to get out on the road so I decided to invest in my HGV licence, always enjoyed driving so thought why not get paid for it and earn a good wage. But when I started my lessons all the drivers in my work give me the old ohhhhh you don’t want to be getting into this job mate, even though there all on good wages, nice houses, families, cars etc, they still whinge. This is part of the problem I guess why more people aren’t coming into it and a lot of drivers do complain about the job, but when you’ve been in a warehouse picking etc having to get x amount of pick rates an hour or you get a bollocking, plus on a minimum wage, this jobs far from that. I do enjoy it and I understand that drivers are fed up of pay and conditions, but if you look at the bigger picture there’s a lot more worse jobs out there with not even half the pay most of us get

Yes agree with you mate,a bloke at my old place of work has a house two kids a car and a holiday home and is always saying self stackers get more than drivers…get real!!!

Iv been around trucks all my life I’m 35 now and in school holidays I had to go in to work with my dad and sit in the office all day with comics and puzzle books,but I soon found that watching the trucks come and go got me interested in the industry.
I used to see many scania 143 and volvo fh come in to the yard to tip and I noticed how happy the drivers seemed and all had a good relationship with my dad who was the boss at this very busy place.
All the drivers seemed to dress fairly smart and keep up to there trucks and a brew was allways on offer as were toilet facilities and showers if needed.now roll on to present day my dad is nearing retirement and doing the same job at different firm (other one was taken over) and is rare he even has a civil word with the drivers,the odd one or two come and are polite and friendly but he says on the whole drivers attitudes today totally stink,turning up demanding to be tipped asking to use toilet and leaving crap all over it,stuff like this.
Is this a transport industry thing or a society thing??
I used to think a good job in transport would be a good career now I just see it as a job,one that I still enjoy a bit but no prospects and a lack of professionalism and pride is rife throughout the industry

Yeh agree with you there, when parked up in lay bys etc and you see the amount of stuff drivers throw out, bottles of ■■■■, carrier bags of rubbish all because they can’t be arsed to walk to a bin or a toilet, that’s the kinda stuff that let’s drivers down and gives us all a bad name,

I remember that report it was quite interesting.

I think it had been government funded due to some worry that we would actually join forces and go on strike.

It read as fairly detailed and seemed accurate with evidence as to how/why each sector would begin to fail.

It laid out day by day what services/businesses would fail due to no road transport.

As already mentioned I think by day 7 the country was being run by military forces with only essential services such as life preserving roles and energy sources able to function due to emergency action.

Well this year will be my 25th year in the industry as a driver. Like others on here I spent as much time as I could when I was a kid out in the lorry with my dad, that was me hooked. He taught me to rope and sheet and a sort of ‘code of conduct’ drivers seemed to follow, he took a lot of pride in his work.

But the thing I remember back then and when I first passed my HGV 1 (before the LGV CE :laughing: ) was the camaraderie which is virtually non existent these days.

markoc:
Well this year will be my 25th year in the industry as a driver. Like others on here I spent as much time as I could when I was a kid out in the lorry with my dad, that was me hooked. He taught me to rope and sheet and a sort of ‘code of conduct’ drivers seemed to follow, he took a lot of pride in his work.

But the thing I remember back then and when I first passed my HGV 1 (before the LGV CE :laughing: ) was the camaraderie which is virtually non existent these days.

I remember as a kid that drivers talked to each other about general things not moaning about job or slagging folk off…
It very rare I now talk to a driver and have a good chat it’s either a bloke who wants to moan or a bloke that want to tell me his life story, so I politely tell them I’m not interested :smiley: .

Youngsters generally don’t want to be truckers.

There are of course exceptions as per previous posts, but there’s too much putting them off as a rule:

Very expensive, mostly un-funded training before you can even start applying for a job.
Too many steps (especially for youngsters) to get to C+E and be work-ready.
On-going training after that - DCPC Periodic Training.
Many young people (not all) have it too easy - never have to leave home, or even leave the house week to week, mostly existing inside their techno-centre ■■■ bedroom.
The job usually has at least one down-side be it wages, early starts, nights out, long hours, physical demands, shift work…sometimes more than one of these ‘negatives’ are involved in the job role.
Lack of motivation to get a job, any job (free money!!!) - may as well stay on dole rather than work. Certainly not going to spend £3,500ish they don’t have on training just to enable them to ‘try’ and get that elusive job!!!

Just my thoughts but I genuinely believe we are going to have a massive problem in the next 5-10 years, as existing drivers retire & don’t get replaced by younger staff.

I think schools have a lot to do with young lads/lasses not being interested in this industry. When I finished 6th form (only 3 years ago) teachers pretty much said if you want any quality of life you’ll need a degree. Makes me laugh looking back at just how hard the teachers tried to put you on the uni path just to increase the schools ranking on some table.

Lots of my friends are finishing uni this year and only one or two have got graduate schemes or unpaid internships for another 2 years!!! the rest are moving back home scratching round for any type of work.

perhaps one reason is the lack of professional pride, cohesion, esprit de corp. All the restrictions that you list make it harder to enter the profession. This discussion form TNUK might be as near as we get to a professional body/organisation. Or maybe one dedicated union with a high proportional membership, URTU

As said by a previous poster? Society wants it YESTERDAY! :imp: especially the young ones, as they’ll order from their iPad, and it turns up on the doorstep after a ring of the doorbell! :laughing: not knowing how it’s arrived from China, port, container, rdc and split down onto parcel courier? :smiling_imp: too lazy to get up at revaille! Jog round the drill square for an hour, press clothes, shower and change before hitting cookhouse for some scran and then going to work! It’s licence holders who’ve DONALD ducked the job, :bulb: carved it up for £2.50 an hour ( ooppppssss that’s next years wage with full DCPC ! :question: ) and breathe RANT OVER! :grimacing: :grimacing: :grimacing: any coal men on here? :wink:

It may or may not be a declining profession, when i started i had no one to follow, my dad was a painter and decorator, my brothers followed him, i wanted to drive, i was fascinated by vehicles, often earned my pocket money on football days ( can i look after your car mister ) who remembers those days, i used to sit in them, pretending it was mine and i was going for a drive, some had no ignition key, just a button, and i would start them up for a real feeling. Anyway when i was 17 i took lessons, then my test, and worked my way up, from a 5cwt van up to 44t, with a hgv licence thrown in for good measure, without having taken a test, well that was the law then when they first came about, if you were driving them, you were licenced for them. It was so much difference back then, and i know people talk about the good old days, but they really were, i think we get less respect today than we did back then, plus all the B*****S drivers have to go through today, and the modern technology we have like the digi, the DCPC, all things that could have made us respected, the industry is getting better with regard to equipment, why theyve even brought in automatics, thats really not for our pleisure though, its more to recruit drivers of limited brains ( seriously ) compare the gearboxes of yesteryear with the modern one today, and its a lot easier. So then move onto 15hr days, weekend working,and the youngsters of today do not want those unsocial hours, they want to spend time with their young families. It can pay good money, it treated me well but its not for everyone, and i missed my kids growing up, left it all to the missus, todays future drivers wont sacrifice what we had to, yet want what we have worked for today. What makes me laugh is the out of touch government who says that more and more older people are working beyond pension age, yes thats true, because we havnt been paid what were worth in a pension, and that few extra quid supports our luxuries, whereas the immigrant who gets £30 grand a year in benefits, the pensioner gets £6 grand for working and paying in for 50 years. I wonder how many drivers, nearing pension age now will receive a private pension…thought so, almost zero, so for example a driver taking home now £400 a week, will suddenly drop to £100 a week, and to most thats frightening, i am not so bad, i get serps on top, and the govt is raising the pension to £400 across the board in a couple of years, which will make a difference, like a wage, but to pay for that, he has raised the pension age, personally i would have left it as it is, but raise the subs, no one would miss an extra £5 a week, if its going to a pensioner would they ?

I see some posts mentioning drivers often bad attitudes and the littering of laybys etc and I could not agree more, there is simply no excuse for this intolerable behaviour. I myself was brought up to treat others as you like to be treated yourself and as far as littering goes, I find that terribly offensive, it is not hard to put your rubbish in a bag and dispose of it later in the correct manner. These lazy ignorant dirty swines are an affront to the industry . I personally wouldn’t turn up for work without my boots polished as I feel presentation goes a long way . Last week I was given a 2 week old truck to do a night trunk in & honestly you could have sworn pigs had been kept in it. Changed days from when the old boss was here when you wouldn’t have dared leave an old newspaper in a cab!!! I maybe asked the question why people are not coming into transport but I am still proud of what I do as no doubt you guys are.

In my mind, a cushy job is one that is (1) Hard for most people (2) easy for myself and (3) pays fairly well, so you can actually have a whole life paid for by the “career” job.

Jobs that pay minimum interest on debts run up because you couldn’t actually afford to have a family, mortgage, & food on the table - out of your wages obviously don’t qualify as “careers” in the first place.

This, alas seems to be what the entire transport industry has become today. Go to a transport yard, and you’ll often find that the Mrs has to work as well, because Hubby’s money just isn’t enough to make ends meet. Sometimes you might find them both working at the same yard of course.

I’d be the first to admit that the job of truck driving has become easier over the years. Automatic gears, no roping and sheeting at most yards, better kit, and of course the workforce being for the most part “of many years experience”. Even back in 1991 when I first got my C+E license, I had to be taught how to drive crash gearboxes on Chieftans, still double-declutch on roadtrains, and get arms like popeye driving full loads with no power steering as well. All that is gone now, but I don’t think it would have put newcomers off if it had stayed.

Driving is like Diet and ■■■. Nearly all of us participate in our lives, and we all think we are doing it the right way. There are plenty of drivers professional and not that clearly can’t drive for toffee nuts, or get unduly stressed whilst doing it, implying that it is not for them. The same thing applies to all of us watching our weight, and we all like to think we’re top notch in the sack as well - but of course oh so few are.

In wider society, the outward appearance of people tends to make onlookers make incorrect judgements about our abilities in all three of the above as well.
For example, see someone “big” and you think they have a poor diet. They might actually be large!
See some bloke with a good looking bird on his arm, and we’ll assume he’s got her because he’s better than us in some way, especially ■■■■■■■■. Complete rubbish of course - he’s either luckier than us, or richer than us. If there was no competition, we’d all get the bird we want - because we’d quite happily have all those available - right?
Then with driving - the public thinks truck drivers are crap. Some of us think we’re crap. So what are our kids going to think with all this low self-esteem going about?

Unlike diet and ■■■, where “success” is apparent from the outside looking on, a top-notch truck driver is going to be recognised how exactly by even the people he works with?

WIthout outside recognition, ANY career will decline to that of “just a job to pay the bills”, and these days, not even that, the bills rising faster than wages as they are.

Change for the better won’t come until fuel prices drop, and put a premium upon good drivers again, whilst insurance costs need to soar, so employers might actually take a bit more care who they employ.

These two factors above will have a much bigger effect on the future of “career drivers” than any number of immigrants flooding the labour market in general - because “cheap” is what it’s all about at present, and you can be cheap without being an immigrant if you have low self esteem, and dare I say, a mis-guided work ethic as well.

Remove the “cheap”, restore self-esteem across the industry, and our kids will once again say "I wanna be a truck driver when I grow up".

ps. When I was asked that question at school, I was one of the majority of lads who said I wanna be a TRAIN driver when I grow up. :blush:

markoc:
Like others on here I spent as much time as I could when I was a kid out in the lorry with my dad, that was me hooked.

Funnily enough, I never did this. My dad worked in an oil refinery and has never driven anything bigger than a Luton van in his life. I was just mad about lorries - for no reason that anyone in the family can fathom - from when I was in my pushchair. I remember sitting in the cab of a Bedford TK run by my uncle as part of his potato business, and I remember going to Fred Brown’s haulage yard because he was a family relative, but these things happened because I was already interested in trucks. And I still am!

Winseer:
In my mind, a cushy job is one that is (1) Hard for most people (2) easy for myself and (3) pays fairly well, so you can actually have a whole life paid for by the “career” job.

Jobs that pay minimum interest on debts run up because you couldn’t actually afford to have a family, mortgage, & food on the table - out of your wages obviously don’t qualify as “careers” in the first place.

This, alas seems to be what the entire transport industry has become today. Go to a transport yard, and you’ll often find that the Mrs has to work as well, because Hubby’s money just isn’t enough to make ends meet. Sometimes you might find them both working at the same yard of course.

I’d be the first to admit that the job of truck driving has become easier over the years. Automatic gears, no roping and sheeting at most yards, better kit, and of course the workforce being for the most part “of many years experience”. Even back in 1991 when I first got my C+E license, I had to be taught how to drive crash gearboxes on Chieftans, still double-declutch on roadtrains, and get arms like popeye driving full loads with no power steering as well. All that is gone now, but I don’t think it would have put newcomers off if it had stayed.

Driving is like Diet and ■■■. Nearly all of us participate in our lives, and we all think we are doing it the right way. There are plenty of drivers professional and not that clearly can’t drive for toffee nuts, or get unduly stressed whilst doing it, implying that it is not for them. The same thing applies to all of us watching our weight, and we all like to think we’re top notch in the sack as well - but of course oh so few are.

In wider society, the outward appearance of people tends to make onlookers make incorrect judgements about our abilities in all three of the above as well.
For example, see someone “big” and you think they have a poor diet. They might actually be large!
See some bloke with a good looking bird on his arm, and we’ll assume he’s got her because he’s better than us in some way, especially ■■■■■■■■. Complete rubbish of course - he’s either luckier than us, or richer than us. If there was no competition, we’d all get the bird we want - because we’d quite happily have all those available - right?
Then with driving - the public thinks truck drivers are crap. Some of us think we’re crap. So what are our kids going to think with all this low self-esteem going about?

Unlike diet and ■■■, where “success” is apparent from the outside looking on, a top-notch truck driver is going to be recognised how exactly by even the people he works with?

WIthout outside recognition, ANY career will decline to that of “just a job to pay the bills”, and these days, not even that, the bills rising faster than wages as they are.

Change for the better won’t come until fuel prices drop, and put a premium upon good drivers again, whilst insurance costs need to soar, so employers might actually take a bit more care who they employ.

These two factors above will have a much bigger effect on the future of “career drivers” than any number of immigrants flooding the labour market in general - because “cheap” is what it’s all about at present, and you can be cheap without being an immigrant if you have low self esteem, and dare I say, a mis-guided work ethic as well.

Remove the “cheap”, restore self-esteem across the industry, and our kids will once again say "I wanna be a truck driver when I grow up".

ps. When I was asked that question at school, I was one of the majority of lads who said I wanna be a TRAIN driver when I grow up. :blush:

This is a belter of an answer…^^^^^

It’s about perception. Kids are told that having a degree is the only way. Brainwashing is partly to blame. Degrees are not what they were, and are no guarantee of a decent job, but the perception is that they are the key to a successful career.

Drivers are perceived as all sorts of things, but the general thread is if you’re a truck driver it’s because you’re too thick to do anything else. Untrue of course, but that’s the perception a lot of people have. Until that changes (and the factors Winseer outlined above come about) nothing much is likely to change.

Rhythm Thief:

markoc:
Like others on here I spent as much time as I could when I was a kid out in the lorry with my dad, that was me hooked.

Funnily enough, I never did this. My dad worked in an oil refinery and has never driven anything bigger than a Luton van in his life. I was just mad about lorries - for no reason that anyone in the family can fathom - from when I was in my pushchair. I remember sitting in the cab of a Bedford TK run by my uncle as part of his potato business, and I remember going to Fred Brown’s haulage yard because he was a family relative, but these things happened because I was already interested in trucks. And I still am!

Both scenario’s above could get you into HGV driving in days gone by. The 1st one though - accompanying Dad during school holidays has on the whole all but disappeared because of company policy/insurance restrictions/site rules or kids not wanting to leave Playstation and/or Wi-Fi. Of course this may still happen for O/D’s & some old school haulage firms but certainly not as popular as it used to be - by a long chalk!!!

I’m not sure I consider truck driving a career, but it is a cushy gig these days. I do it because not only do I enjoy HGV’s & driving in general, it also ticks many boxes that wouldn’t be ticked elsewhere for as much money in the bank every week…

  • Freedom. Not cooked up inside the same four walls everyday.
  • Lack of supervision. I’m out on my own & despite having a job to do generally do things my way.
  • No hassle or mythering from clients. My job is to deliver the goods in good nick & not crash the wagon, everything else is other peoples problem - those sat behind a desk within four walls, being supervised & mythered by clients.
  • The job doesn’t come home with me, at all, I leave it at the yard gates.

I’m not career driven or motivated by big bucks, I wouldn’t be driving otherwise & I’m not even that interested in trucks - I like an easy life, to be free & out and about. This is why I got into driving having been a warehouse lackey working around them. I’d struggle to do anything else now. Despite ropey looking hourly rates I have consistently earned around £25K or more for most of my time driving & have never been overly stressed & lived a contented life thus far, an awful lot of people out there have to work a hell of a lot harder than we do. Nurses, some police officers etc. usually taking home less whilst putting up with a lot more. “Oh no, I had to sit on my arse in an RDC for 3 hours sleeping” / “The planners gave me an impossible run” :unamused:

Would I have got into the job if it was still the highly skilled gig it was with roping & sheeting etc.? To be honest, I doubt i’d have been as attracted to it. Same reason I could never be arsed with heavy haulage, car transporters etc. I’m sorry if this means I’m not the kind of elite driver some would most approve of, but i’m just looking after myself and will be carrying on for as long as I enjoy it.