Full marks to the chap in the car in the road works M6 Sth after jct 15 today, who after breaking down managed to find a patch of grass 
where they’d accidentally left a tiny gap in the armco 
, and got his car completely off the carriageway, he and his passenger standing well back in safety, sadly as i went by i forgot to give the geezer a toot and thumbs up for having a good helping of common sense…pity the designers of these roads didn’t have any.
Rowley010:
Is much of the problem people rather than design though. People not using them properly. People not reducing their speed to what it says. People continuing on through red Xs. People not using all the space to filter properly. People not allowing each other in and out of lanes when they need to change if a lane has turned to a junction only lane. I think there’s not a lot wrong with them until you put humans and selfish attitudes and I can’t see a reason for that so I’m not doing it attitude.I still maintain that I don’t actually see how a broken down vehicle in a live lane 1 is any less safe than a broken down vehicle in the live lane 1 maybe partially on the grass verge of the A1. Same speeds, less lanes for traffic to use for avoidance, at night less visibility, and no traffic management once highways realise.
You have probably hit the nail on the head. I wondered if anyone would come up with the driver problem but as we know some like to blame everything else.
Travelling too fast for conditions, leaving little room from the vehicle in front, not paying proper attention and generally driving like idiots don’t help an already stupid idea.
DD999 and Rowley010 have confirmed what I thought… smart motorways = crap. The speed restrictions for no reason, I’m well experienced in; we have the same here. But having to keep changing lanes because you come to a junction has to be the daftest thing ever besides having no place to safely stop if you conk out. Maybe it wouldn’t have been a bad idea to use the hard shoulder at peak times for the next exit only, at a reduced speed for that lane and on lit sections too.
Anyway, thanks for the replies.
Some seem to misunderstand or can’t read.
peterm:
DD999 and Rowley010 have confirmed what I thought… smart motorways = crap. The speed restrictions for no reason, I’m well experienced in; we have the same here. But having to keep changing lanes because you come to a junction has to be the daftest thing ever besides having no place to safely stop if you conk out. Maybe it wouldn’t have been a bad idea to use the hard shoulder at peak times for the next exit only, at a reduced speed for that lane and on lit sections too.Anyway, thanks for the replies.
They aren’t ALWAYS for no reason. During the day it’s often to smooth out congested traffic. At night it may be for road works or a stranded vehicle. The thing that happens though is that once the stranded vehicle has been moved, or the road works been taken away, it’s not like an instant thing where those limits then get removed. It might take half an hour of more. So for that period of time yes we’re all driving through thinking well this is stupid so I’m not going to stick to it. I can’t see a reason for it so I’m not going to do it attitude. Then you get a speeding fine and claim it’s all money making yet it’s you who chose to ignore the limit. Where’s the logic in that? So often there was a reason for them, but it’s just all slow to update. Sometimes it’s just wrong, but still if you do what it says you’ll never get fined. Simple as that. Many drivers can’t grasp that and there’s no difference between professional driver or car driver on that one. Speed limit says 40. If I go through at 55 I might get fined. If I go through at 40 I won’t get fined. I know then, I’ll go through at 55 and get fined so I can moan it’s all to make money. Madness.
Rowley010:
Coming down the A1 tonight and it got me thinking. Why is this any different to a smart motorway? Why do we go on about how much of a stupid idea a smart motorway is and unsafe when the A1 (and other major dual carriageway trunk roads) has been around for longer than any smart motorway.M1 M6 and A1 all have the same speed limit. All have unlit bits, the A1 even more so. The A1 has no hard shoulder just like a smart motorway. It’s got lay-bys of which during the day about 50% are full at any one time and at night 80-90% are full. The smart motorway has refuge areas which are for emergency only. So how is the A1 any different or any safer? Or are smart motorways just something for us to moan about as it’s the newer thing.
Iirc motorways were one of the safest roads to travel on, despite the high speeds and volumes of traffic. Probably because the hard shoulder gave a (relatively) safe space along it’s full length where drivers could pull over in case of vehicle failure, effectively separating them from the traffic flow.
Hard shoulder less motorways may well be safe, but they can never be as safe as as a motorway WITH a hard shoulder.
Yes I know the new “smart” motorways have refuges, but considering the number of vehicles that stop in lane 1, there arent enough of them.
jake the snake,
If your comment was directed at me… why? I read and understood the other post’s perfectly well.
Rowley010,
I know well enough that the limits aren’t always for no reason and I didn’t say I don’t slow down to the limit. I did get a speeding fine… in 1976 so don’t worry about me.
peterm:
jake the snake,
If your comment was directed at me… why? I read and understood the other post’s perfectly well.Rowley010,
I know well enough that the limits aren’t always for no reason and I didn’t say I don’t slow down to the limit. I did get a speeding fine… in 1976 so don’t worry about me.
Wasn’t specifically directing the speeding issue at you. Just making the point that drivers choose to ignore the smart motorway speed limits, get fined, then say it’s just to make money. Simple answer, dont exceed the limit that’s displayed whether you agree with it or not. As I say, many drivers professional or not including many on here don’t seem to grasp that simple concept.
jakethesnake:
Rowley010:
Is much of the problem people rather than design though. People not using them properly. People not reducing their speed to what it says. People continuing on through red Xs. People not using all the space to filter properly. People not allowing each other in and out of lanes when they need to change if a lane has turned to a junction only lane. I think there’s not a lot wrong with them until you put humans and selfish attitudes and I can’t see a reason for that so I’m not doing it attitude.I still maintain that I don’t actually see how a broken down vehicle in a live lane 1 is any less safe than a broken down vehicle in the live lane 1 maybe partially on the grass verge of the A1. Same speeds, less lanes for traffic to use for avoidance, at night less visibility, and no traffic management once highways realise.
You have probably hit the nail on the head. I wondered if anyone would come up with the driver problem but as we know some like to blame everything else.
Travelling too fast for conditions, leaving little room from the vehicle in front, not paying proper attention and generally driving like idiots don’t help an already stupid idea.
The old thing of there isn’t a dangerous road just dangerous driver might be correct, but a lot of work goes into road design to negate the effects of what is basically human nature, and done properly it can be more effective than law enforcement in reducing casualties, so actually though it might be people who have the crashes, poorly designed roads can increase the chances.
The old thing of there isn’t a dangerous road just dangerous driver might be correct, but a lot of work goes into road design to negate the effects of what is basically human nature, and done properly it can be more effective than law enforcement in reducing casualties, so actually though it might be people who have the crashes, poorly designed roads can increase the chances.
Totally agree Muckles. A mixture of the two, no doubt. All human related though. We all could do a lot better sometimes instead of blaming everthing else but ourselves.
I think we all agree it’s useless drivers of all vehicle types that are to blame, but having someone to blame/claim isn’t worth a cupful of cold sick when some poor blighter who breaks down on a live lane gets cleaned up before they could get themselves and their passengers out and to safety.
We can theorise and do our very own personal best, but we all know that when its ■■■■■■■ rain and dark as hell, and we’re cruising along the left hand live lane at a sensible speed leaving a full observation and braking distance from the vehicle in front, when we look in our mirror billy big ■■■■■■■■ will be jammed right up our arse trying to hurry us along, right there riding on the crown of the lane in order to push you on , we are where we are without a hard shoulder or more and much lengthened refuges and/or some lighting (for Pete’s sake they could have at least lit the bloody refuges) then motorways without a hard shoulder will be more dangerous than those with if you happen to break down in a vehicle smaller than a decent weight HGV.
Not forgetting the serious issue now of emergency services access to get to scenes of carnage quickly are completely buggered, at one time police ambulances fire engines even the inevtiable wrecker could travel quickly down the hard shoulder past all the standing traffic and be at the scene in time to help and save life or suffering if at all possible, now by the time the signs have been activated its too late and with the speed traffic builds up its a nightmare for the ambulances and fire crews especially to get there quickly when all 4 lanes are chocked solid with standing vehicles.
Juddian:
when we look in our mirror billy big ■■■■■■■■ will be jammed right up our arse trying to hurry us along, right there riding on the crown of the lane in order to push you on
Never a problem to me those d/head heart attack candidates, I find a quick flick of the exhaust brake on full usually sorts them out…no brake lights, 
And if they bury themselves in the back doors of your trailer injuring themselves? who gives a ■■■■? 
…at least it puts one of them off the road for a bit. 
I’ve been in this job too long to be intimidated by that type of prick, water off a duck’s thingy.
robroy:
Juddian:
when we look in our mirror billy big ■■■■■■■■ will be jammed right up our arse trying to hurry us along, right there riding on the crown of the lane in order to push you onNever a problem to me those d/head heart attack candidates, I find a quick flick of the exhaust brake on full usually sorts them out…no brake lights,
And if they bury themselves in the back doors of your trailer injuring themselves? who gives a [zb]?
I’ve been in this job too long to be intimidated by that type of prick, water off a duck’s thingy.
No they don’t worry me either personally though i’m happier when they go past cos i like being well away from their type, if they hit me the arse end of the tank is going straight into the cab at bottom of windscreen height, it’s when it isn’t something unmoveable that BBB hits i was thinking off, such as the poor sod in the car that the rest of us driving reasonably manage to miss ok.
Not forgetting the serious issue now of emergency services access to get to scenes of carnage quickly are completely buggered, at one time police ambulances fire engines even the inevtiable wrecker could travel quickly down the hard shoulder past all the standing traffic and be at the scene in time to help and save life or suffering if at all possible, now by the time the signs have been activated its too late and with the speed traffic builds up its a nightmare for the ambulances and fire crews especially to get there quickly when all 4 lanes are chocked solid with standing vehicles.
[/quote]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
the planners obviously picked up their ideas from the lord mayor of londonisthan where they build cycle lanes segregated by blocks so that the traffic cant move out of the way of the emergency services effectively gridlocking their process to reach heart attack victims and such.
just another nail in the coffin for life in the uk.
I’m actually a fan of smart motorways, perhaps that’s because I know how to use them and thus gain plenty of benefits from them!
What I’m not a fan of is our Governments half arsed approach to them and their use; they’ll happily spend billions on upgrades to smart motorways and absolutely zero on education to motorists on how to use them correctly. It seems that the majority of users only learn by “monkey see, monkey do”, which is fine if the monkey you’re learning from is doing it correctly in the first place.
One change I would make if I was able to would be to have a permanently displayed red X over the h/s when its not being used as a live lane. One sign saying “hard shoulder for emergency use only” every two or three miles is obviously not enough given that English isn’t the first language of many of our road users, and also many obviously have difficulty keeping it in lane without them attempting to read matrix signs. A simple pictogram would sort that.
What annoys me about them is when the ‘Use hard shoulder’ sign is lit so I go into it and then, a few miles on, it says ‘Hard shoulder for junction 3/4/5 only’ etc so you then have to get back into the ‘granny lane’ once again and hope somebody lets you back in! Otherwise they aren’t too bad, apart from the lack of lighting in places.
Pete.
the maoster:
I’m actually a fan of smart motorways, perhaps that’s because I know how to use them and thus gain plenty of benefits from them!What I’m not a fan of is our Governments half arsed approach to them and their use; they’ll happily spend billions on upgrades to smart motorways and absolutely zero on education to motorists on how to use them correctly. It seems that the majority of users only learn by “monkey see, monkey do”, which is fine if the monkey you’re learning from is doing it correctly in the first place.
One change I would make if I was able to would be to have a permanently displayed red X over the h/s when its not being used as a live lane. One sign saying “hard shoulder for emergency use only” every two or three miles is obviously not enough given that English isn’t the first language of many of our road users, and also many obviously have difficulty keeping it in lane without them attempting to read matrix signs. A simple pictogram would sort that.
Top post my man.
windrush:
What annoys me about them is when the ‘Use hard shoulder’ sign is lit so I go into it and then, a few miles on, it says ‘Hard shoulder for junction 3/4/5 only’ etc so you then have to get back into the ‘granny lane’ once again and hope somebody lets you back in! Otherwise they aren’t too bad, apart from the lack of lighting in places.Pete.
My point about selfish attitudes. “Im in this lane and I’m not going to let you in”.
most drivers drive along mistakenly under the impression that they own the road 20 yards in front of them in a similar manner to the retards that think they own the exclusive right to the public road outside their house for personal parking.
human nature prevails with the opinion of then that you should be waiting in line and taking your turn.
the best way to travel when surrounded by these lemmings,is to use your indicators and immediately cut the nose right off them preferably when its driven with a woman as in 40 years driving ive yet to come across one that wont let you in or react quick enough to work out that they are in the right .
What happened to all the enforcement on “driving under red 'x’s” that got cracked down upon a few months back, but now seems to have lapsed again - judging by the sheer number of routine offenders among PLG drivers in particular?
On a slightly different thing - there was me coming eastbound towards Hangar Lane last night, having just slowed to 40 for the speed limit drop near Greenford…
Then I get a half dozen cars fly past me like I’m standing still, speed cameras at regular intervals - and not ONE of the buggers flashing on anyone!!
Is there a tag that TfL drivers can put in their windscreen that de-activates the cameras or something - 'cos a luton box then went past me still doing around 50 I’d say, only to set a camera off straight away! Luton Box had a Brighton phone number advertized on it, so presumably is NOT a “TfL” vehicle like all those cars one sees with the “underground-like” sticker in the back window.
I wonder if all this had any effect on the action against Uber today, come to that?