Why do agency drivers get slated on here?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

You get guys who are useless or out for themselves and they will eventually run out of customers. You can be banned for nothing

you get guys like me who realise that reputation is everything in this game and will go out of their way to represent the customers image by turning up in clean work clothes and do a good job.

the customer can request by name if they want to but not many will. That is their own fault. I don’t need loyalty to clear £500 a week for 5 days of providing a high standard of service

42

DAF95XF:

trubster:
3) I have the freedom to have a week off when I want, Employed drivers have to ask nicely for a week off and could be told ‘No’

On the other hand, employed drivers get holiday pay :wink:

But they only get 4-6 weeks of it rather than 4-6 months of it! :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

43

Try being a consultant :laughing:

On a daily basis I get to see the good, the bad and the ugly. Unfortunately there are two negative categories to that one positive, which is probably pretty accurate.

Agencies often deal with drivers from every varying degree of experience. For some reason, new drivers, the guys that have just made two years on their licence, ex-forces personnel, retirees looking for some extra money in their pocket predominantly because they’re bored, serving firemen etc. Within that, you’ll find some exceptional drivers that have in a lot of cases, come unstuck and unsure what to do with themselves since being made redundant, the middle of the road drivers that do a fair job, and those that go and prang the motor on their first day out.

Given most agencies won’t have their own vehicles (there are few that do) for driving assessments, a calculated risk is taken on paper. Generally someone that knows their theory in terms of driving hours / tacho use and have a reputable previous experience will turn out to be your fair → good. Those that have you raise an eyebrow should be quite frankly, turned away. You’ll find in many cases however that agencies are struggling for drivers between eachother, so even the questionable drivers are taken on and filed in the “■■■■ hit the fan” drawer for that awkward 5am phonecall.

If you’re a genuinely good driver that doesn’t cause hassle, does what’s asked of you and in some instances use your initiative - you’ll be asked after again and chances are, you’ll be working ‘effectively’ full time in a job you enjoy. It’s not always a case of bad drivers = bad drivers. Often its more a case of a driver being suited to a particular type of job as opposed to another, and any decent agency would do well to make the most of it.

44

Freddie thats bull ■■■ and you know it

45

Do you preach or practice Freddie? you can only do so much as a consultant and you will have an uphill struggle to gain the trust of your staff. I do think you are on the right road though. Looking after your best is the way to keep them

46

scanny77:
Do you preach or practice Freddie? you can only do so much as a consultant and you will have an uphill struggle to gain the trust of your staff. I do think you are on the right road though. Looking after your best is the way to keep them

Think I’ve had a thread about me already so won’t try and go down that route too much :stuck_out_tongue:

Ultimately what I post on here are my personal opinions and I like to think I do the ‘right’ thing whenever possible. You won’t find my name on my ads for example (though you might see my company), so when my name is on there - it’s a legit position.

Certainly learnt a lot from posters on here and I like to think that drivers past and present that have contacted me since moving branches and such reflect on their experiences with my approach to people in general. There are a lot of constraints and some practices that I’m tied to (for example, charging a rate and paying a slightly lesser one!) but in terms of what I post with regards to ‘good’ consultants is certainly what I practice. I’m pretty certain that everything I can be quoted on, I adhere to.

47

I am a noob at class 1 anyway and I am making mistakes. I am an agency driver and as such the clients sling the keys at you and expect you to magically KNOW everything one of their regular drivers have had training for. As soon as you ask a question you can see the look on some of their faces and the nod “Bloody Agency driver”. I would stress to any agency driver don’t be intimidated by them! ASK ASK ASK. For example at my present place I was told where the fuel tanks were to fill up. I asked if it mattered which tank you use and the TM said no any of them is fine. I went to top my MAN up and went through the menu and the last question was Pump 1 or Pump 2? At that point I put the handle back and thought 3/4 of a tank is enough I felt uneasy about these tanks one was a red tank marked GAS OIL and the other was a Light Blue tank marked pump 1.

I asked the shunter after my trip did it matter and he said “yeah do not use the red one, it is marine diesel” and that it would not only die the tank but would screw up the injectors! Best ask…

48

alder:
I am a noob at class 1 anyway and I am making mistakes. I am an agency driver and as such the clients sling the keys at you and expect you to magically KNOW everything one of their regular drivers have had training for. As soon as you ask a question you can see the look on some of their faces and the nod “Bloody Agency driver”. I would stress to any agency driver don’t be intimidated by them! ASK ASK ASK. For example at my present place I was told where the fuel tanks were to fill up. I asked if it mattered which tank you use and the TM said no any of them is fine. I went to top my MAN up and went through the menu and the last question was Pump 1 or Pump 2? At that point I put the handle back and thought 3/4 of a tank is enough I felt uneasy about these tanks one was a red tank marked GAS OIL and the other was a Light Blue tank marked pump 1.

I asked the shunter after my trip did it matter and he said “yeah do not use the red one, it is marine diesel” and that it would not only die the tank but would screw up the injectors! Best ask…

The shunter wasn’t very well informed. Gas Oil or Marked Gas Oil to give it its full name is another name for red diesel. No more no less. There is no such fuel as marine diesel. Marine diesel refers to engines, not fuels. Some very large marine diesels run on very coarse, barely refined oil - you’re not going to find that in a haulier’s yard. I take it you know what red diesel is used for.

EDIT: Did it not occur to you to ask this genius why there would be a pump dispensing “marine diesel” into road vehicles? :laughing:

49

FreddieSwan:

scanny77:
Do you preach or practice Freddie? you can only do so much as a consultant and you will have an uphill struggle to gain the trust of your staff. I do think you are on the right road though. Looking after your best is the way to keep them

Think I’ve had a thread about me already so won’t try and go down that route too much :stuck_out_tongue:

Ultimately what I post on here are my personal opinions and I like to think I do the ‘right’ thing whenever possible. You won’t find my name on my ads for example (though you might see my company), so when my name is on there - it’s a legit position.

Certainly learnt a lot from posters on here and I like to think that drivers past and present that have contacted me since moving branches and such reflect on their experiences with my approach to people in general. There are a lot of constraints and some practices that I’m tied to (for example, charging a rate and paying a slightly lesser one!) but in terms of what I post with regards to ‘good’ consultants is certainly what I practice. I’m pretty certain that everything I can be quoted on, I adhere to.

fair play to you if you are as sincere as you say. I am now working with an agency on the side of driving. We have a good opportunity to carry out a trial which will hopefully get me out of the driving seat and providing a better deal for customer and driver alike. Most agencies want bums on seats and that is the biggest problem with them

50

FreddieSwan:
Try being a consultant :laughing:

On a daily basis I get to see the good, the bad and the ugly. Unfortunately there are two negative categories to that one positive, which is probably pretty accurate.

Agencies often deal with drivers from every varying degree of experience. For some reason, new drivers, the guys that have just made two years on their licence, ex-forces personnel, retirees looking for some extra money in their pocket predominantly because they’re bored, serving firemen etc. Within that, you’ll find some exceptional drivers that have in a lot of cases, come unstuck and unsure what to do with themselves since being made redundant, the middle of the road drivers that do a fair job, and those that go and prang the motor on their first day out.

Given most agencies won’t have their own vehicles (there are few that do) for driving assessments, a calculated risk is taken on paper. Generally someone that knows their theory in terms of driving hours / tacho use and have a reputable previous experience will turn out to be your fair → good. Those that have you raise an eyebrow should be quite frankly, turned away. You’ll find in many cases however that agencies are struggling for drivers between eachother, so even the questionable drivers are taken on and filed in the “[zb] hit the fan” drawer for that awkward 5am phonecall.

If you’re a genuinely good driver that doesn’t cause hassle, does what’s asked of you and in some instances use your initiative - you’ll be asked after again and chances are, you’ll be working ‘effectively’ full time in a job you enjoy. It’s not always a case of bad drivers = bad drivers. Often its more a case of a driver being suited to a particular type of job as opposed to another, and any decent agency would do well to make the most of it.

Here lies the problem. If you use your initiative in a way that helps the customer, helps the driver, but upsets the “consultant”, then they are not going to score on a “two out of three ain’t bad” basis I guess.
If you are a genuinely good driver, you are one not told you are one. Rank here is given by posterity rather than “my knob is bigger than yours because I always follow orders, even when bent”.
Doing what’s asked of you should not compromise law, H&S, ethics, or the customer’s wants and needs. The only time the customer should be rebuked, is by the “consultant” who’ll ensure the job is done, and carry the cost if need be. Most “consultants” won’t though, so just attempt to palm off any unreasonable customer “demands” onto the hapless driver - eg. "You’ll do a 15 hour/night out/go over to get the job done in one hit so I can pay you a single day’s rate won’t you?"

51

Anyway, back to the post in hand, why do agency drivers on here get slated, dont take it personal , after any posting it always ends in a slating for some reason or other !

52

Pat Hasler:

Beetshifter:
Hello all,this is my first post as I’m new on here
Was wondering why people on here slag off agency drivers,not all of us are numptys.I have to put with crap from so called professional drivers who give it large cos they’ve got a regular job.Because of personal reasons I have chosen agency work to put bread on the table and still be able too help the wife through an illness.So have a thought before you have apop. Sorry about the rant,had too get it off me chest.

Not going to read through all the posts on here but there are some reasons why agency drivers get the slagging.

  1. perminant drivers see agency drivers as trying to take their jobs away, which is mostly true.
  2. most agency drivers do not give a toss about doing the job properly… Unless they are as stated trying to get a full time job.
  3. joining an agency is just contributing to the insecurity in the jobs market, joining an agency is stupid because the agency makes huge amounts for doing very little whilst exploiting the driver and treating him or her like crap, low pay, poor conditions and no job security.
    4 all agencies should be made illegal.

the illegal part i am for 100%,then there might actually be full time jobs going,because employers would have no choice but to take on full time

53

If agencies were made illegal, the firms would just sell off their land for housing projects, and downsize the entire business - rather than take on more full time staff which is the only cost overhead they ever seem to think they have.
Things won’t change until the big employers change - is what I’m saying here. They are still running the outmoded “just in time” model belonging to the 1990’s recession - let alone this one where the desperate workforce are close to crime in order to get by. :frowning:

54

Winseer:
If agencies were made illegal, the firms would just sell off their land for housing projects, and downsize the entire business - rather than take on more full time staff which is the only cost overhead they ever seem to think they have.
Things won’t change until the big employers change - is what I’m saying here. They are still running the outmoded “just in time” model belonging to the 1990’s recession - let alone this one where the desperate workforce are close to crime in order to get by. :frowning:

I hadn’t thought about the JIT model in a long time, probably because it’s become so normal. You’re right though, it’s completely outmoded.

Watch some bright spark come up with a “new” idea in the near future and give it a silly name… :smiley:

55

Iirc it was the Japanese automotive industry which introduced the delights of JIT. The problem being it works (in from our pov a flawed) fashion. We all know that these multi nationals will save a penny wherever possible, so the cost saving on warehousing and warehousing staff alone mean that this business model isn’t going to go away. I think that until hauliers grow some and charge demurrage thus making it economically unviable to rdc’s etc we’re gonna be stuck with it. Of course hauliers sticking together is as likely as a disgraced politician swallowing his service revolver!

56

the maoster:
Iirc it was the Japanese automotive industry which introduced the delights of JIT. The problem being it works (in from our pov a flawed) fashion. We all know that these multi nationals will save a penny wherever possible, so the cost saving on warehousing and warehousing staff alone mean that this business model isn’t going to go away. I think that until hauliers grow some and charge demurrage thus making it economically unviable to rdc’s etc we’re gonna be stuck with it. Of course hauliers sticking together is as likely as a disgraced politician swallowing his service revolver!

Yeah, I seem to remember it starting out as an automotive thing too.

Demurrage in the way we would implement it will of course, never happen. Remember the New Labour idea that you could legally add interest to late payments? Fine if you never intended to work with that customer again and of course, nothing changed.

Speaking of multinationals saving money, MMTM that a very large (worldwide) firm has a campaign out offering 10% of any savings they make, to you, if you suggest a money saving idea.

A driver came up with making the drivers come in on Saturday, unpaid, to do their DCPC training, therefore saving them thousands in agency cover fees. Every single one of them accepted it and matey got paid.

If transport firms will do that to their own staff, imagine what their customers are capable of…

57

I’ve always believed that the best way to save money is to cut actual waste, rather than what gets branded as “wasted money on those damned wages”.

Little is done to cut waste, because the profits from elsewhere in the business are high enough that actual waste can be turned a blind eye to.
If the waste is big enough, there might even be an insurance claim in it (why oh why do they keep paying?)

The NHS waste is on computer systems right now - insisting upon using different setups that leave one hospital incompatible with another. I’ve always believed they should use an Internet-Based system like on-line commerce does. (I worked in IT before I was a driver) They need to concentrate less on so-called “security”, and more on getting the actual job done of a universal patient record system that is fully integrated with the rest of the country’s medical profession - no exclusions. You put a card in a hole in the wall, and the entire banking system knows everything about you. You collapse in the street, and you can’t even be given blood, because you’re just a john doe to them, even with ID on your person when picked up by the ambulance. People really need to have accidents and get poorly on their own patch, lest the poor communications between different hospital areas end up killing you more than the ailment does!
Waste in the NHS - everyone in there not directly associated with patient care is surplus to requirements. Bring back Matron, and get rid of “Nursing Officers” and other pen-pushing staff who have only succeeded in making something that “can’t BE too expensive” into something that somehow BECAME too expensive anyway! Bean counter’s wages. The opposite side to my argument regarding waste in goods destroyed over waste in non-jobs being overpaid to get rid of actual staff doing proper jobs…

Of course in supermarkets, the waste is legendary! *“Let’s throw away millions in food daily, rather than donate it to food banks, or even sell it off at a 95% discount…”*Meanwhile, try and get an extra 50p ph on your wages, and the chances are they’ll review for a pay CUT rather than a rise.

The only way this will ever stop is by punishing waste in the tax system. Trouble is, the politicians of all major parties get paid to leave business alone - lest it go elsewhere.
Yeh. Sure Baz.
So where are the Utility companies going to run to with all that infrastructure that should be in public hands?
Where’s the millionaire going to run to, having cut loose his pesky “goose that lays golden eggs” that is a big UK income these days?
Politicians want us to stay in Europe. The Public want out. We’ll never get taken out though, without a revolution to enforce a proper people-friendly government that does what citizens desire, rather than acting for big business paymasters all the time. :imp:

58

Winseer:
Here lies the problem. If you use your initiative in a way that helps the customer, helps the driver, but upsets the “consultant”, then they are not going to score on a “two out of three ain’t bad” basis I guess.
If you are a genuinely good driver, you are one not told you are one. Rank here is given by posterity rather than “my knob is bigger than yours because I always follow orders, even when bent”.
Doing what’s asked of you should not compromise law, H&S, ethics, or the customer’s wants and needs. The only time the customer should be rebuked, is by the “consultant” who’ll ensure the job is done, and carry the cost if need be. Most “consultants” won’t though, so just attempt to palm off any unreasonable customer “demands” onto the hapless driver - eg. "You’ll do a 15 hour/night out/go over to get the job done in one hit so I can pay you a single day’s rate won’t you?"

Winseer… really? :unamused:

Can you give me an example of where a driver would use initiative and in doing so, please both him/herself, the client, yet somehow upset the consultant? By using initiative I was simply implying that you’re allowed to make use of your brain when out on a job and call on a little common sense; like having a problem that you can effectively deal with and just inform the client as opposed to ringing the consultant / TM moaning about it and expecting someone to hold your hand.

Also, I’m failing to see where I insinuated that doing what’s asked of you means running bent!?

Either my view is completely jaded or there’s a lot of consultants that seem to be working with cowboy outfits (which, I’m surprised you’d be working for, given I thought you were doing supermarket work, apologies if I’m wrong). I generally respect your responses but I think in this instance you’ve completely misconstrued what I’ve said. :open_mouth:

With regards to “let’s make all agencies illegal”… let’s be realistic. This isn’t going to happen, and if it were to happen, it will probably be when most of us are heading towards retirement. It’s certainly not going to happen tomorrow.

Aside from that, they will simply be opening the door for companies to employ on zero-hour contracts and no one will be any better off regardless. I find it a little bit naive that people are of the thought process that illegal agencies = full time employment. Couldn’t be further from the truth.

59

Doing what’s asked of you can occasionally involve running bent. Eg. You are due to leave a depot 3 hours out from base. You are currently 12.5 hours into your shift. Firm orders you back, because as agency you might be paid the full whack for your ‘night out’ - that is, the 9 hour rest break, and the flat 8 to get home next day, despite it only taking 3 hours to get back.
Firm doesn’t fancy paying that, so they’ll ask you to set off back, knowing you’ll run out of time… Initiative - I’ve volunteered to do the “night out”, and had it thrown in my face more than once in the past. Yet, I still get asked to do the impossible run back on “same day” basis… FFS! I’ve been flexible, in offering my services beyond the call of the original duty, but the firm just want to save money, even if it involves ordering me to break the law…

An example of “making the customer happy, and ■■■■■■■ off the consultant” would be taking on a private contract between yard and myself because the firm want me for a 3+ week block of work across Easter, Christmas, etc. which the agency have already told me “isn’t available”. Now, the agency are supposed to get a “finders fee” for this sort of action, but if it’s a deal betwixt myself and the firm, that isn’t going to happen, thus the “consultant” is ■■■■■■ off. :smiley:

I do supermarket work, parcel trunks, food trunks for non-supermarkets, and very occasionally some sub work like RM on the runup to Christmas.
I don’t do “exclusively umbrella” stuff like Iceland, Nisa, and other high street non-food stuff like Tkmaxx, wilkos, etc. They’d have to double the hourly rates to make me even look at it again. :sunglasses:

Agencies are here to stay. A symptom of the so-called “flexible jobs market” that the government wets its pants over, but shafts everyone actually trying to get a full time job.
…But without them, they would be queues at yard gates, like the 1930’s when there were no such thing as agencies, but still no full time jobs! :wink:

Gone are the days of “bribing the foreman” I think. :exclamation:

60

Winseer:
Doing what’s asked of you can occasionally involve running bent. Eg. You are due to leave a depot 3 hours out from base. You are currently 12.5 hours into your shift. Firm orders you back, because as agency you might be paid the full whack for your ‘night out’ - that is, the 9 hour rest break, and the flat 8 to get home next day, despite it only taking 3 hours to get back.
Firm doesn’t fancy paying that, so they’ll ask you to set off back, knowing you’ll run out of time… Initiative - I’ve volunteered to do the “night out”, and had it thrown in my face more than once in the past. Yet, I still get asked to do the impossible run back on “same day” basis… FFS! I’ve been flexible, in offering my services beyond the call of the original duty, but the firm just want to save money, even if it involves ordering me to break the law…

An example of “making the customer happy, and ■■■■■■■ off the consultant” would be taking on a private contract between yard and myself because the firm want me for a 3+ week block of work across Easter, Christmas, etc. which the agency have already told me “isn’t available”. Now, the agency are supposed to get a “finders fee” for this sort of action, but if it’s a deal betwixt myself and the firm, that isn’t going to happen, thus the “consultant” is ■■■■■■ off. :smiley:

Glad you used the word occasionally, given I wouldn’t ever ask anyone to drive bent, and it’s very likely that if a client was asking it on a regular basis - they wouldn’t be a client for very long. Only takes one VOSA stop for the driver to land himself in hot water and severely out of pocket but kick off at the agency that had nothing to do with asking him to break the law.

Fantastic example. You’ve just highlighted a fairly rare case of the client breaking their terms of business and the driver failing to comply with his signed contract. I’m sure the agencies solicitors will have no problem picking up the finders fee and the extortionate charge (something like 500%) should the above occur. :unamused: