del949:
I always understood that you should find your digs (if needed) during your normal time).
Then, if you fail to do so, you either breaking the law by continuing to drive, or by taking your daily rest in the vehicle without sleeping facilities… Or you go to the posh hotel and pay your monthly wage for night there…
It’s sometimes hard to findd a decent place to stop (I sometimes had to drive a sprinter van) and that’s beyound your will to make it happen…
Coddy:
Carryfast:
Coddy:
Analogue Tacho,Wind the clock on 12 hours, fresh chart in and off you go, easy.
And that’s when you find yourself at the wrong end of a vosa bust or get involved in an accident and they start asking questions as to why the chart says it’s 6 am at 6 pm in the evening
Thats the chance you take aint it…
It’s probably better to take the lesser of three evils in that case and just run over the hours by the small amount on the right chart and try to explain it away like orys said or run a bit faster and take the chance on getting done for speeding?.
Beware of people using and quoting “Guide Books” expressing opinion as fact 
A driver cannot depart from “the EU Rules”
He can however depart from Articles 6 to 9. And as I’m sure is fairly well known, they are the Articles relating to maximum driving limits, break requirements, periods of rest and “travelling to start work”
That’s the full extent of “departure from the legislation” allowed.
The rest of that quote from the guide is just simply padding, and a veiled, spurious threat from an enforcement agency
=================================================
Orys, THIS is what the actual legislation says . . . .
Article 12
Provided that road safety is not thereby jeopardised and to
enable the vehicle to reach a suitable stopping place, the driver
may depart from Articles 6 to 9 to the extent necessary to
ensure the safety of persons, of the vehicle or its load. The
driver shall indicate the reason for such departure manually on
the record sheet of the recording equipment or on a printout
from the recording equipment or in the duty roster, at the
latest on arrival at the suitable stopping place.
That ought to be pretty straightforward to anyone whose first language is English. If you need any help with translation or interpretation, I’m sure you can find it 
My own personal thought is that we shouldn’t “drive on” any further than the next available legal place to park.
How much time did you run over your driving limit ?
they said it was ok under those circumstances…to return to depot
At the end of the day it’s your licence you make the ultimate decision …
Whatever you do you are wrong.
if you dont drive back …as your an agency driver the COMPANY wont have you back …
If you do drive back they will be gratefull cause the trucks back for tommorows work …
BUT to cover their azz they may tell the agency not to send you back again and pressure the next guy to do the same …
A tip for you be prepared take night out kit with you on every job …Just in case …
orys:
del949:
I always understood that you should find your digs (if needed) during your normal time).Then, if you fail to do so, you either breaking the law by continuing to drive, or by taking your daily rest in the vehicle without sleeping facilities… Or you go to the posh hotel and pay your monthly wage for night there…
It’s sometimes hard to find a decent place to stop (I sometimes had to drive a sprinter van) and that’s beyound your will to make it happen…
If the only hotel is as you say a POSH one you call your employer ( agency )and get them to pay it or the company it’s their responsibilty for the health and safety at work if that includes a driver stuck out they must do whatever they need to to look after you. ( posh hotel if thats all that is available and they shoud pay it if you do not have the money )
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
If the only hotel is as you say a POSH one you call your employer ( agency )and get them to pay it or the company it’s their responsibilty for the health and safety at work if that includes a driver stuck out they must do whatever they need to to look after you. ( posh hotel if thats all that is available and they shoud pay it if you do not have the money )
yeah, and they say “We gave you 22 quids of overnight money, we can wash our hands now”
orys:
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
If the only hotel is as you say a POSH one you call your employer ( agency )and get them to pay it or the company it’s their responsibilty for the health and safety at work if that includes a driver stuck out they must do whatever they need to to look after you. ( posh hotel if thats all that is available and they shoud pay it if you do not have the money )yeah, and they say “We gave you 22 quids of overnight money, we can wash our hands now”
22 quids of overnight money is the ‘accepted’ rate by the tax man for driver expenses when overnighting with a sleeper cab. You had a sleeper cab?
Mike-C:
22 quids of overnight money is the ‘accepted’ rate by the tax man for driver expenses when overnighting with a sleeper cab. You had a sleeper cab?
That was an example only. Place X for your dig money, Y for the hotel price, and let Y >> X 
orys:
Mike-C:
22 quids of overnight money is the ‘accepted’ rate by the tax man for driver expenses when overnighting with a sleeper cab. You had a sleeper cab?That was an example only. Place X for your dig money, Y for the hotel price, and let Y >> X
Just on a point of order . . . . . . . (for those that might not be aware)
“Night out money” is actually a subsistence allowance with, overall limits, and tax free element limits.
Until 31 Dec 09 the “overall” limit is £30.75 If you have a sleeper cab, they’re allowed to pay 75% of that (£23) tax free - without consultation. (Local arrangements are allowed)
History would suggest those limits may be raised after 31 Dec.
It’s not an alternative to, or replacement for, any actual out of pocket expenses supported by receipts other than “evening meal, breakfast, washing facilities and the upkeep of bedding”
206doorman:
If a truck has to spend an unplanned night away from base,for instance, it could well have major repercussions on
the following days work…and that could,ultimately,affect your company’s existence.(and yours)
The rules were never intended to have that effect.
.
If it has such major repercussions that you even just feel you have to run back in case you cause them then the transport manager was not complying with the terms of the operators licence or the law because they are not scheduling runs that can be done without putting undue pressure on the driver.
orys:
See, the problem is that I was expecting it to be illegal,
So you knew the legalities before you posted!I had a plenty of situation when I slightly exceeded driving time, for example becouse there was no place to park. This is clear for me - as it is physically impossible to park safe, I won’t just stop in the middle of the road. But this seems to be a grey area, if it’s the driver who decides if it is necessary or not.
Fair enough.
I
On the side:
I would be really glad if we could discuss the matter in question without pointing in my experience or non-experience. I think it is not related to the matter in question if I have 3 years, 3 days or 30 years of experience, becouse if it’s legal, it’s legal for all drivers, and if it’s illegal, it’s also illegal for all drivers, no matter how experienced they are. The comments about my proffesionality are also unneccessary - especially from someone, who, as you pointed, is not clear himself.You posted the question on a “professional drivers forum” asking for opinions on the legality of what you had done. The answers you receive that presumably you agree with are met with little or no comment, however when someone posts a reply that you don’t agree with you immediately attack with some rambling defence. I gave an opinion to your OP, I did not say that I judged your actions to be morally wrong, merely legally wrong. If you don’t like the answers, then don’t ask the question!
and I can bet that even the most experienced of us here can do some mistakes or be not sure in question they never encountered before (or find out after years that what they were always doing was unnecessary).
Yes undoubtedly most (if not all) of us make mistakes. You posed the question, I answered it.
I shall now sit back and await your inevitable last word competition.
Davey Driver:
And at the time of writing this you’ve posted 570 timesAnd your point being Davy?
It has ALWAYS been permitted to exceed the driving hours in cases of unforeseen circumstances but they also went on to say “with a reasonable time” which was never defined as 10 minutes or 1 hr
I have no problem with that whatsoever Davy. My reply to the OP was formed with the information supplied by Oral that he in fact parked after 10hrs 3 mins in a suitable and safe place. I agree 100% that the 3 mins wouldn’t have even raised a VOSA eyebrow, what would have them all moist and happy would be that he THEN left the suitable and safe place and drove for another period of time.
the maoster:
The answers you receive that presumably you agree with are met with little or no comment, however when someone posts a reply that you don’t agree with you immediately attack with some rambling defence
If I agree with someone there is no point to discuss. If someone tells me different things to my opinion, I am trying to find who’s right. I do it by giving my arguments, and if he can put them all down, he must be right, and I learned something today. That’s my way of discussing the things.
Yes undoubtedly most (if not all) of us make mistakes. You posed the question, I answered it.
And not only you, I had also some PM replies and now I know that most propably it was my mistake of being not assertive enough and let them convince me that it was legal. That was the point, to learn something (even, if what I learned is that I was right in the beginning, and then I did something wrong). And I won’t do the same mistake again.
the maoster:
I shall now sit back and await your inevitable last word competition.
Sorry for answering your post, but you can still consider yourself as a winner
I have no problem with that whatsoever Davy. My reply to the OP was formed with the information supplied by Oral
Yeah, and changing my nickname with a clear intention to make it, say, not very nice, is necessary thing to give answer in the matter in question?
del949:
I always understood that you should find your digs (if needed) during your normal time).
If you knew in advance - yes
but what if the hold up was on the journey back to base where, in normal circumstances, you would not exceed hours ■■?
The driver without suitable in cab sleeping facilities is now faced with trying to find digs for the night which could take some time
The company and not the driver is responsible for paying for those digs
We had a full VOSA check on all the tachographs covering a period of one month last year. There was a double-manned trip that just went horrendously wrong, circumstances beyond our control. The reasons were noted on the back of the tachos and a further explanatory letter in the files.
We had no problems with VOSA on that occasion. All the other tachos were sound,s o it showed up as a one-off.
Doesn’t answer your question though!
I ran out of spreadover a few weeks back. Phoned firm twice who weren’t vey helpful.
Parked up in lay-by, 16 miles from home, 34 miles from base.
Spent chilly night in DAF without any bedding.
Since then I carry bedding on every trip.
I don’t need to ask whether what I did was legal, because I know.
It make be an inconvenience to your employer, but it is your licence and reputation at stake if you deviate from the rules. If in doubt use your own initiative, others will tell you what suits them.
If im guessing right the place u stopped the 1st time was shettleston or parkhead or somewhere close? I wouldnt count that as safe for driver or wagon. Id write on the chart that u found a place to stop but on inspection wasnt safe so u had to continue. And if u are at 13 or 15 hour limit and not just driving time then getting picked up in a van is still illegal as u are still working till u get to normal base.
I have just watched these 3 sections of a program on Irish Hauliers.
I also see that Orys has seen the thread. I have to say, I never honestly knew that there were companies so severe in their STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE. Obviously, I have known about regular and serious problems with companies, but claiming to have to give 2 DAYS notice of a 24hr rest period!!! What is this guy on?
Its make’s Ory’s problem look positively paltry.
If you haven’t seen the clips, have a watch. For some it’ll be a real eye opener, especially for the newbies such as DAF95XF.
Darby Flyer:
Its make’s Ory’s problem look positively paltry.
Yeah, had the same thoutht…
If you’re parked up in a safe place after exceeding your driving time , it would be very unwise to carry on as you’re effectively breaking the law.
Maximum driving time should never be a target your should AIM to achieve. Anybody planned for a 10 hour driving time run is going to be in trouble before they even set off for the day. That’s the way VOSA will look at it if such run results in exceeding the driving time. Different matter if the run is planned to be 9 hours driving time and unforeseen cirumstances result in overrunning 10 hours in order to find safe parking.