Which Union???

I’ve been in URTU since leaving the army. They’ve been a big help to me on several occasion since then.

One of the weirdest reasons I hear for not joining a union is - they’ve got no teeth, or words to that effect.
A union, any union, can only have teeth if it’s supported by the majority of workers in it’s sector.
So in saying I won’t join a union because its got no teeth, you are saying I won’t give a union teeth.

limeyphil:
‘…if a road transport union said it will be holding a one week strike against, fuel, pay, health and safety nonesense, speed limiters, and hours regs. then i would join…’

Other than pay, what has the rest of that got to do with drivers Phil ?
OK, I know everything is connected, but everything else falls into the gaffers hands, not the employees.
Fuel, the boss pays for that, if his rates are ok the cost of fuel will be built in and covered.
Elf n Safe tea, ok, you’re right, a lot of it is nonsense, but it’s the nonsense of - the road to hell is paved by good intentions. They are busily paving away.
Speed Limiters and hours regs. Again that’s down to safe tea and a supposed leveller playing field, the WTD is in there too. That’s supposed to have us working less unsociable hours. In theory, I approve, I should be paid a reasonable wage for fewer hours. The fewer hours I have to work the better.

Fighting to sort these out though is down to the gaffers and their groups, the FTA, RHA etc.
If they ever agree to do something useful, like a reasonable minimum milage rate and abolish ‘backload’ rates, we could all be on decent money for a reasonable amount of work. But if someone decides to ignore their rate, what sanctions will they have? Kicking a company out of the association?
That’ll be a concern I’m sure
As far as I can tell, wages are poor for 2 main reasons.
1 Rates are poor, cut to the bone, so costs have to follow suit. One of the few costs in the bosses control is wages. If the boss puts up the rates he charges, to give us a pay rise, someone will come in at the old rate and steal the work. You’ll then be out of a job, unless you work for the new company on the same old rate for the same old pay.
2 Wages have almost always been low, it’s the culture of driving, long hours at a low hourly rate. We end up with a liveable wage, but only from putting long hours in. There have been times when certain jobs had good wages, but it’s never lasted very long.
Fuel tankers for eg. When the big fuel companies ran there own vehicles and drivers, the drivers were on good money. Then the big logistics companies got interested. They bought all the tankers, ‘streamlined’ working practises and bought in their own drivers on a much lower rate. Did drivers stick together and say ’ we aint working for that?’ Nope, these new tanker drivers were glad to get a job that paid a wage, bugger the rest. Unions might have helped, but the gaffers were wise to that one and bought in none union drivers, the ones who say, ‘I ain’t joining a union, they’ve got no teeth!’

We’re back to square one.

Simon:
I’ve been in URTU since leaving the army. They’ve been a big help to me on several occasion since then.

One of the weirdest reasons I hear for not joining a union is - they’ve got no teeth, or words to that effect.
A union, any union, can only have teeth if it’s supported by the majority of workers in it’s sector.
So in saying I won’t join a union because its got no teeth, you are saying I won’t give a union teeth.

limeyphil:
‘…if a road transport union said it will be holding a one week strike against, fuel, pay, health and safety nonesense, speed limiters, and hours regs. then i would join…’

Other than pay, what has the rest of that got to do with drivers Phil ?
OK, I know everything is connected, but everything else falls into the gaffers hands, not the employees.
Fuel, the boss pays for that, if his rates are ok the cost of fuel will be built in and covered.
Elf n Safe tea, ok, you’re right, a lot of it is nonsense, but it’s the nonsense of - the road to hell is paved by good intentions. They are busily paving away.
Speed Limiters and hours regs. Again that’s down to safe tea and a supposed leveller playing field, the WTD is in there too. That’s supposed to have us working less unsociable hours. In theory, I approve, I should be paid a reasonable wage for fewer hours. The fewer hours I have to work the better.

Fighting to sort these out though is down to the gaffers and their groups, the FTA, RHA etc.
If they ever agree to do something useful, like a reasonable minimum milage rate and abolish ‘backload’ rates, we could all be on decent money for a reasonable amount of work. But if someone decides to ignore their rate, what sanctions will they have? Kicking a company out of the association?
That’ll be a concern I’m sure
As far as I can tell, wages are poor for 2 main reasons.
1 Rates are poor, cut to the bone, so costs have to follow suit. One of the few costs in the bosses control is wages. If the boss puts up the rates he charges, to give us a pay rise, someone will come in at the old rate and steal the work. You’ll then be out of a job, unless you work for the new company on the same old rate for the same old pay.
2 Wages have almost always been low, it’s the culture of driving, long hours at a low hourly rate. We end up with a liveable wage, but only from putting long hours in. There have been times when certain jobs had good wages, but it’s never lasted very long.
Fuel tankers for eg. When the big fuel companies ran there own vehicles and drivers, the drivers were on good money. Then the big logistics companies got interested. They bought all the tankers, ‘streamlined’ working practises and bought in their own drivers on a much lower rate. Did drivers stick together and say ’ we aint working for that?’ Nope, these new tanker drivers were glad to get a job that paid a wage, bugger the rest. Unions might have helped, but the gaffers were wise to that one and bought in none union drivers, the ones who say, ‘I ain’t joining a union, they’ve got no teeth!’

We’re back to square one.

Excellent post Simon. I’ve been in the T&G (now Unite) since leaving the Army & had my moneys’ worth.

Happy Keith:

James Bateman:
‘…I don’t know what, if anything, they could do for me…’

Yeah, leave the ‘unity’ nonsense to others until wanting something - then jump on their shirt-tails’: Here too.

It’s the preferred world of being the 21st century guppy of a social citizen where the (Labour Party approved) model of EU & British ‘Thatcher-ism’ thrives as the swanky ‘European Village’ bully’s march through British culture to destroy much of what our forefathers fought for.

Big Brother is here - and our compliant approval will be shown at the election!

Whatever pal,for the few years that I left the T&G ( who didn’t want to know whenI had a " problem " ) I’ve looked after number 1 and will continue to do so,if you don’t mind,that is ?
I’ve saved quite a few quid,in the process too,I’m loyal to my back pocket !

Coffeeholic:

ROG:
The only people who can assist you in your quest to make things better are politicians…

The best person to make things better is yourself, not unions, politicians or anyone else. If there is something in my life or the way I live or work I don’t like I take steps to improve it and I do so without the help of anyone else. Why do people always need someone else to do something for them, take a bit of [zb]ing responsibility.

I agree with you.

The reason the pay is poor and the hours are long is because people will put up with it.

I passed my HGV1 in 1979 and have never worked as an HGV 1 driver on a full-time basis since then, in fact I have never driven one for five consecutive days and I probably never will.

I work a couple of days a week because I want to and because I don’t need to, I always have the option to say no thank you.

Going back to the conditions, is it any wonder the pay is bad if people charge around like idiots to get the job done as quickly as possible. If every HGV driver complied with speed limits, didn’t work through breaks etc. then things might improve. If they don’t then they only have themselves to blame.

Employers will happily pay you peanuts but if you start doing the job properly then they will have to think again, but there is very little chance of things changing because everybody else knows best.

Unlike the rail network the haulage industry is not a national institution it is made up of many companies, some big some small, all fighting for business so there’s always the fear if one company goes on strike another will just take the work, unlike the rail network where there’s no competition that can take over so when they strike they can really turn the screw.

My experience of unions are that they are good if you work for a big firm where they don’t give two zb’s about you and when it goes wrong try to screw you over, but if you in a smallish firm and your happy with the work why waste your money? If you don’t like the job get another one.

Not getting involved in the BA strike issues, but did anyone else notice the demonstrators who crashed the “peace” talks? so called socialist workers party. don’t believe any one of them has ever done a hard days work in thier lives!