muckles:
Now you’ve confused me, my understanding if the regs is that you have to have a break or a rest before you’ve completed 4.5 hours of driving. POA don’t count as break or rest
That’s correct, it’s a shame that when they wrote the specifications for digital tachograph they didn’t make the specifications fit the drivers regulations and the WTD.
Bear in mind that in my previous post I quoted the tachograph specification regulations not the drivers regulations.
For the drivers hours regulations POA doesn’t count as break, that’s why I said it wrongly resets the driving time on the tachograph display.
Sent from my mobile.
I think things have got confused, admittedly I never knew the tachograph also reset the clock on driving time as that bit didn’t effect me, but obviously what happens in the tacho head is also copied on the dashboard and that is what I use to track my driving time.
What I think the OP and myself mean is if you’re using your dashboard readout to track your time, you need to be aware the POA will re-set it, but you still need to take a break or you will end up exceeding your driving time, not that the POA changes to break.
muckles:
What I think the OP and myself mean is if you’re using your dashboard readout to track your time, you need to be aware the POA will re-set it, but you still need to take a break or you will end up exceeding your driving time, not that the POA changes to break.
But that’s not what the OP said, what he said was:
jessejazza:
Some have stated PoA can interrupt driving time and switch to break.
“Be aware that digital tachographs wrongly count POA as break”. I have not heard this before and phoned my local tacho centre and the guy told me that’s not the case. If PoA is selected it will stay on PoA unless the truck is moved forward in which case it automatically switches to drive.
The bit I’ve coloured red is quoted from my first post in this thread, I’ve no idea what this talk about POA switching to break is all about because no-ones said that, however if a tachograph centre bod has told the OP that the digital tachograph does not wrongly count POA as break and reset the driving time I’m saying the tachograph specifications suggest he’s wrong.
Though from what the OP has posted about POA not staying on POA I’m guessing he never correctly described the issue I mentioned.
muckles:
What I think the OP and myself mean is if you’re using your dashboard readout to track your time, you need to be aware the POA will re-set it, but you still need to take a break or you will end up exceeding your driving time, not that the POA changes to break.
But that’s not what the OP said, what he said was:
jessejazza:
Some have stated PoA can interrupt driving time and switch to break.
“Be aware that digital tachographs wrongly count POA as break”. I have not heard this before and phoned my local tacho centre and the guy told me that’s not the case. If PoA is selected it will stay on PoA unless the truck is moved forward in which case it automatically switches to drive.
The bit I’ve coloured red is quoted from my first post in this thread, I’ve no idea what this talk about POA switching to break is all about because no-ones said that, however if a tachograph centre bod has told the OP that the digital tachograph does not wrongly count POA as break and reset the driving time I’m saying the tachograph specifications suggest he’s wrong.
Though from what the OP has posted about POA not staying on POA I’m guessing he never correctly described the issue I mentioned.
Well I will go and see them this week and find out exactly what the tacho records.
jessejazza:
Well I will go and see them this week and find out exactly what the tacho records.
Well if the vehicle is moving the tachograph records driving time, If you set the tachograph mode switch to break it records break, in fact it records whatever mode the tachograph is set to and no-one has suggested otherwise.
Let me see if I can explain this more clearly.
When you’ve done 4.5 hours driving you need a 45 minute break, when you’ve done some driving then have a 45 minute break the tachograph will reset the driving time on the tachograph display and you can do another 4.5 hours driving before needing another driving break.
If you do some driving then stop and put the tachograph on POA for 45 minutes the driving time on the tachograph display will be reset making it look like you have another 4.5 hours driving time before needing a break.
However legally that’s not the case, lets say you did 2 hours driving then put the tachograph on POA for 45 minutes, the driving time on the tachograph display would be reset however legally you could only do another 2.5 hours driving before needing a 45 minute break.
Scania wouldn’t /couldn’t acknowlege what I was ,and have been since getting this truck new, telling them. Tried on and off since 2011. Given up now…more or less.
Other examples of POA from my firm are being on a ferry, sometimes we had to be on port 6 hours before the sailing and double manning. As we paid all POA it was used as it should be, when you know the duration in advance. Generally our time sheets would indicate something like 30 hours work and driving in a week and 30 hours POA or breaks.
We did work out in theory that double manning a crew could go to Sweden leaving Monday, getting back friday and one of them legally could be on POA all week.
Keep a paper diary of your breaks record rest as rest and POA when waiting. As has been said before POA will falsely reset your tacho after 15 + 30 or 45 minutes . So put the first 15 , 30 or 45 of POA on bed-rest mode and the rest on POA mode to not fall foul of the working time directive.
ukjamesuk:
Keep a paper diary of your breaks record rest as rest and POA when waiting. As has been said before POA will falsely reset your tacho after 15 + 30 or 45 minutes . So put the first 15 , 30 or 45 of POA on bed-rest mode and the rest on POA mode to not fall foul of the working time directive.
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
ukjamesuk:
Keep a paper diary of your breaks record rest as rest and POA when waiting. As has been said before POA will falsely reset your tacho after 15 + 30 or 45 minutes . So put the first 15 , 30 or 45 of POA on bed-rest mode and the rest on POA mode to not fall foul of the working time directive.
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
How do you change the settings on a digital tachograph from EU regulations to UK regulations or vice versa ?
ukjamesuk:
Keep a paper diary of your breaks record rest as rest and POA when waiting. As has been said before POA will falsely reset your tacho after 15 + 30 or 45 minutes . So put the first 15 , 30 or 45 of POA on bed-rest mode and the rest on POA mode to not fall foul of the working time directive.
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
How do you change the settings on a digital tachograph from EU regulations to UK regulations or vice versa ?
We don’t.
Presumably as a new truck comes from EU it is set at the factory. Most trucks on fleet sales these days are lease hire I believe; either staying on that or bought/sold later by the original firm or another. My guess is that it would not be changed until maybe at tacho recalibration time… if requested. A firm with say 100 trucks are not going to pay for a change. Hard enough to get something done when reporting a defect!
On my job interview question paper; a question involving POA came up - before writing the answer I stated at the top… “assume POA counted as break (European Regs)”.
I believe the tachographs are set up this way because of double-manning. Officially the first 45 minutes of POA when in slot two count as a break (the vehicle selects POA automatically when the vehicle moves). It may well be that when putting it on POA in slot 1 that it has the same effect.
The workaround might simply be to take a note of how much driving time is left at the point of putting it on POA.
The only conceivable reason for using POA that I can see is to keep working hours down for WTD.
jessejazza:
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
How do you change the settings on a digital tachograph from EU regulations to UK regulations or vice versa ?
We don’t.
Presumably as a new truck comes from EU it is set at the factory. Most trucks on fleet sales these days are lease hire I believe; either staying on that or bought/sold later by the original firm or another. My guess is that it would not be changed until maybe at tacho recalibration time… if requested. A firm with say 100 trucks are not going to pay for a change. Hard enough to get something done when reporting a defect!
All digital tachographs are programmed for EU regulations and cannot be set to anything other than EU regulations.
Noremac:
I believe the tachographs are set up this way because of double-manning. Officially the first 45 minutes of POA when in slot two count as a break (the vehicle selects POA automatically when the vehicle moves). It may well be that when putting it on POA in slot 1 that it has the same effect.
The workaround might simply be to take a note of how much driving time is left at the point of putting it on POA.
The only conceivable reason for using POA that I can see is to keep working hours down for WTD.
I don’t think you are right. I only did double manning one day on an agency job. iirc when the card goes into slot 2 it is automatically on break (45min) and then switches to POA - remaining on POA until drivers swop.
jessejazza:
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
How do you change the settings on a digital tachograph from EU regulations to UK regulations or vice versa ?
We don’t.
Presumably as a new truck comes from EU it is set at the factory. Most trucks on fleet sales these days are lease hire I believe; either staying on that or bought/sold later by the original firm or another. My guess is that it would not be changed until maybe at tacho recalibration time… if requested. A firm with say 100 trucks are not going to pay for a change. Hard enough to get something done when reporting a defect!
All digital tachographs are programmed for EU regulations and cannot be set to anything other than EU regulations.
Think I used the wrong words there. Yes tachos are set to EU regs but there are alternative settings and one of them is with POA (European Continent setting is ‘Count POA as break’). Another setting is switch automatically to break when stopped instead of other work - very annoying I have found.
[Drivers are operators and we are required to know so much but not too much - there are loads of settings that we drivers will not be told about. There are drivers who can still tamper with tachos when they want - hence why now many are on wireless so the office is watching all day… look for a little antenna in the door or cab roof].
POA is now basically defunct (for slot 1) and they don’t tell you that on CPC.
jessejazza:
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
tachograph:
How do you change the settings on a digital tachograph from EU regulations to UK regulations or vice versa ?
jessejazza:
We don’t.
Presumably as a new truck comes from EU it is set at the factory. Most trucks on fleet sales these days are lease hire I believe; either staying on that or bought/sold later by the original firm or another. My guess is that it would not be changed until maybe at tacho recalibration time… if requested. A firm with say 100 trucks are not going to pay for a change. Hard enough to get something done when reporting a defect!
tachograph:
All digital tachographs are programmed for EU regulations and cannot be set to anything other than EU regulations.
jessejazza:
Think I used the wrong words there. Yes tachos are set to EU regs but there are alternative settings and one of them is with POA (European Continent setting is ‘Count POA as break’). Another setting is switch automatically to break when stopped instead of other work - very annoying I have found.
[Drivers are operators and we are required to know so much but not too much - there are loads of settings that we drivers will not be told about. There are drivers who can still tamper with tachos when they want - hence why now many are on wireless so the office is watching all day… look for a little antenna in the door or cab roof].
POA is now basically defunct (for slot 1) and they don’t tell you that on CPC.
Do you have any older relatives in truck driving? Possibly semi retired? From Leatherhead?
Just wondering, like.
jessejazza:
I only did double manning one day on an agency job. iirc when the card goes into slot 2 it is automatically on break (45min) and then switches to POA - remaining on POA until drivers swop.
jessejazza:
Yes tachos are set to EU regs but there are alternative settings and one of them is with POA (European Continent setting is ‘Count POA as break’). Another setting is switch automatically to break when stopped instead of other work - very annoying I have found.
[Drivers are operators and we are required to know so much but not too much - there are loads of settings that we drivers will not be told about. There are drivers who can still tamper with tachos when they want - hence why now many are on wireless so the office is watching all day… look for a little antenna in the door or cab roof].
POA is now basically defunct (for slot 1) and they don’t tell you that on CPC.
I’m not sure if this is a wind-up but I really hope it is
jessejazza:
From what I can gather it depends whether your truck’s tacho is set to UK EU regs or left on EU European (most are as no one changes it - EU will count POA as break). In my case she did record POA for longer than 45 min.
I start a new job next week and I have asked about POA - this firm leave all their trucks on EU European so like most of you I won’t use POA again.
tachograph:
How do you change the settings on a digital tachograph from EU regulations to UK regulations or vice versa ?
jessejazza:
We don’t.
Presumably as a new truck comes from EU it is set at the factory. Most trucks on fleet sales these days are lease hire I believe; either staying on that or bought/sold later by the original firm or another. My guess is that it would not be changed until maybe at tacho recalibration time… if requested. A firm with say 100 trucks are not going to pay for a change. Hard enough to get something done when reporting a defect!
tachograph:
All digital tachographs are programmed for EU regulations and cannot be set to anything other than EU regulations.
jessejazza:
Think I used the wrong words there. Yes tachos are set to EU regs but there are alternative settings and one of them is with POA (European Continent setting is ‘Count POA as break’). Another setting is switch automatically to break when stopped instead of other work - very annoying I have found.
[Drivers are operators and we are required to know so much but not too much - there are loads of settings that we drivers will not be told about. There are drivers who can still tamper with tachos when they want - hence why now many are on wireless so the office is watching all day… look for a little antenna in the door or cab roof].
POA is now basically defunct (for slot 1) and they don’t tell you that on CPC.
Do you have any older relatives in truck driving? Possibly semi retired? From Leatherhead?
Just wondering, like.
jessejazza:
I only did double manning one day on an agency job. iirc when the card goes into slot 2 it is automatically on break (45min) and then switches to POA - remaining on POA until drivers swop.
jessejazza:
Yes tachos are set to EU regs but there are alternative settings and one of them is with POA (European Continent setting is ‘Count POA as break’). Another setting is switch automatically to break when stopped instead of other work - very annoying I have found.
[Drivers are operators and we are required to know so much but not too much - there are loads of settings that we drivers will not be told about. There are drivers who can still tamper with tachos when they want - hence why now many are on wireless so the office is watching all day… look for a little antenna in the door or cab roof].
POA is now basically defunct (for slot 1) and they don’t tell you that on CPC.
I’m not sure if this is a wind-up but I really hope it is
Certainly not.
Presumably you are referring to wireless tacho. I’ve driven several trucks on wireless tacho and was told at induction and no time sheet to submit as all taken off the tacho. Perhaps they were specially fitted as the truck was operated out of someone else’s premises and so no office to house PC and card swipe. But then one can use the hand card reader but antenna was fitted on the door.
The antenna is about 1/2" high and not easy to spot if you don’t know what to look for. I’ll get my new truck on Tue and if fitted I’ll put up a pic. I’m sure loads of tramping trucks have them and I’d have thought a must for continental work.
