wing-nut:
What is it with everyone these days? Why do a lot of drivers seem to think they should have training for the simplest tasks. Torquing a wheel nut is really not rocket science!!
I totally agree, but the issue here is having to sign a form to say the work has been done correctly - why do so many companies these days want to dissolve their responsibilities onto that of their drivers. Nothing wrong in being expected to carry out minor maintenance tasks, it is the official responsibility in signing that the work has been done to exacting standards that is the issue.
As company’s are doing an ■■■ covering exercise it not unreasonable for the driver to do the same.
Driver using torque bar slips and pulls shoulder. Off work 2weeks
Company asks have you been trained
Driver no
Company well here’s your written warning don’t do it again until your trained.
It happens believe me
Must take all of a minute to be “trained” how to use a preset and locked torque wrench.Or is it just a tad to complex or maybe a tad to much like work?
cav551:
So the company is also going to supply tools to remove the super-shiny go-faster chrome wheel trims first? An accurate tyre pressure guage? a valve core tool and boxes of new valve cores and dust caps for when the valve core sticks in and starts to let the tyre down? and the dust cap falls down a storm drain?
So when the ratchet in the torque wrench slips and the driver goes flat on his back, or nuts the side of the vehicle; or the socket slips of a slightly rounded wheel nut, or comes off because the wheel nut indicators weren’t removed first, with the same result; that’s when the suits’ blue sky thinking or rainbow moment, or whatever rubbish they like to call it on a Monday, doesn’t look quite so clever.
I’d rather explain that than explain to a court why I’ve killed someone because I was a total, useless lazy pri#k who simply couldn’t be bothered to spend a some time checking that my vehicle is as safe as I can possibly make it to be on the road!
And you are missing the point that SOME of us don’t have any issue with doing the work, it’s the clear unambiguous delegation and absolution of responsibility from management that’s the issue…
Evil8Beezle:
And you are missing the point that SOME of us don’t have any issue with doing the work, it’s the clear unambiguous delegation and absolution of responsibility from management that’s the issue…
Reading through this thread I’m reminded of the Bristol tipper crash. The one where the mechanic and company director were also charged with corporate manslaughter (?) or similar. I’m left wondering if this whole “driver signs to say wheels are torqued” is an attempt by management to keep their hands clean if things went ■■■■ shaped.
Evil8Beezle:
And you are missing the point that SOME of us don’t have any issue with doing the work, it’s the clear unambiguous delegation and absolution of responsibility from management that’s the issue…
Reading through this thread I’m reminded of the Bristol tipper crash. The one where the mechanic and company director were also charged with corporate manslaughter (?) or similar. I’m left wondering if this whole “driver signs to say wheels are torqued” is an attempt by management to keep their hands clean if things went [zb] shaped.
You’re not alone in thinking along those lines CC.
Even silly old buggers like me have had to let ourselves be dragged kicking and screaming into this brave new world of covering your arse in paperwork and thinking Very carefully about what we are signing.
It goes against the grain cos i come from the time when we often enough changed our own wheels out on the road, and adjusted our own trailer brakes with a 9/16 spanner to keep 'em up to scratch, but life just aint simple no more.
Evil8Beezle:
Prey tell Conor, how many times in your last year of limping have YOU torqued up your nuts?
Don’t need to, we have divvie pointers on thanks to steering wheel attendants. Did volunteer to do it one morning when I ran in after a tyre change but the garage wouldn’t let me so there was 30 minutes overtime opportunity lost.
However I’ve driven at two companies in the last 2 years and at both there have been torque wrenches available, even at the small pallet network franchisee.
I have torqued up the wheel nuts on my cars though if that counts.
Although I’ve tightened many a nut in my time (trucks not ■■■■■■■■■■ ball grab wrestling), I fall somewhere in the realistic middle ground here.
The addition of those plastic marker things has made life a lot easier but if a wheel has been removed a retorque is carried out asap.
Now we have a torque wrench available at our main yard and I will use it or ask in such a way that one of our fitters helps me out and does it while I follow him round removing and reattaching the plastic thingys.
Obviously it’s the drivers responsibility no amount of paperwork can protect him from wheel loss liability.
But there is a technique, not go round the nuts clockwise more an upy, downy, diagonally method which was taught to me years ago.
So yes it’s the drivers responsibility but when a company wants to cover it’s own arse in this fashion I would make sure every service and inspection date was never missed.
Dumbing down, arse covering or just plain us and them mentality, whatever it is in this case proper training should be available to those who require it as well as time allowed to complete this weekly task.
Many moons ago I’d often get a shout from the office window that I need to come in for a nut check. I do miss my private school days.
wing-nut:
What is it with everyone these days? Why do a lot of drivers seem to think they should have training for the simplest tasks. Torquing a wheel nut is really not rocket science!!
I totally agree, but the issue here is having to sign a form to say the work has been done correctly - why do so many companies these days want to dissolve their responsibilities onto that of their drivers. Nothing wrong in being expected to carry out minor maintenance tasks, it is the official responsibility in signing that the work has been done to exacting standards that is the issue.
As company’s are doing an ■■■ covering exercise it not unreasonable for the driver to do the same.
Driver using torque bar slips and pulls shoulder. Off work 2weeks
Company asks have you been trained
Driver no
Company well here’s your written warning don’t do it again until your trained.
It happens believe me
Must take all of a minute to be “trained” how to use a preset and locked torque wrench.Or is it just a tad to complex or maybe a tad to much like work?
I was always under the impression you slack the torque wrench when not being used to avoid damaging it/stretching it so the settings are kept true.
By your method of keeping it locked into a preset then surely over time the torque wrench becomes useless as the torque settings are misleading so you might as well use a brace and bar.
Well I asked my yard foreman this morning if he had a torque wrench available to check my wheel nuts, and after he told me to go away and have ■■■ with myself, he enquired as to why. I told him about this topic and he said to me that’s what the indicators are for and when wheels need to be retorqued, they call the fitters to come and do it. Yes that’s a bit crap as you can’t be sure that it’s getting done, but at the same time we are not losing wheels left right and centre…
I agree with dipper that nuts should be tightened in a zig zag sort of pattern, but that’s not how the fitter did it last week on one of our trucks. He just went around in a circle which I think is wrong…
wing-nut:
What is it with everyone these days? Why do a lot of drivers seem to think they should have training for the simplest tasks. Torquing a wheel nut is really not rocket science!!
I was in Sainsbury’s the other day and their drivers were saying that they shouldn’t have to pull stones and screws out of tyre tread when they pick trailer up because they hadn’t been trained and tyre might go bang if they pull a screw out. What the [zb] is this world coming to??
It’s easier to put it through the official channels. If you fix something, say take a screw out of a tyre, and the tyre goes flat, then you’re in trouble. And if they’ve got black marks against your name anyway, then you could be for the chop.
But if the mechanic does it, then it’s the mechanics fault, and he can take the hit. Sadly management have bred this.
I’ve seen plenty of ‘trained’ mechanics use a torque wrench completely wrong - swinging on it after it has ‘clicked/broken’ to indicate the correct torque has been reached. Seemed they figured a few more Nm of torque ‘just in case’ and s-t-r-e-t-c-h goes the stud.
Two main reasons for wheel nuts coming loose in the first place - not done up in the first place or over tightened.
I personally think it is taking things a step to far to expect a driver to torque wheel nuts and sign to say they are OK. Yes they could be ‘trained’ and be perfect at the task but what next? If they were always fitted correctly in the first place by trained and diligent people instead of some of the monkey’s working as tyre fitters they would need torque checking.
Let’s consider the ‘unpaid’ job titles most drivers end up holding
Vehicle Valeter - Often responsible for cleaning of the vehicle inside and out (but there’s a cleaner in the office) Security Guard - Expected to look after the vehicle at all times (yet there’s usually ‘security’ on the offices/yard) Mechanic - Daily checks, topping up of fluids, changing bulbs, diagnosing defects and now torqueing of wheel nuts Load Master - Correctly securing a load is a technical job yet drivers are expected to do this without any training/help/advice Navigator - Seems drivers should be able to find anywhere in the UK from just a partial post code AND know whether the wagon will fit! Customer Services - The customer can talk to the driver however he wants but god forbid the driver upsets the customer Office Clerk - Paperwork paperwork and more paperwork Legal Expert - Expected to know the road traffic act, construction and use regs, drivers hours and the highway code
Most of the above (and I am sure you could add more) are actually individual job titles that people hold and get paid for doing!! If only a drivers’ pay reflected this.
Of course if a driver is happy to be torqueing wheel nuts then fine … Personally I’d want the pay in line with the responsibilities.
Preset and locked wrenches are calibrated every 6 months and a certificate issued,
The tightening of diagonal wheel nuts is only used on first fitting not on retorques to already fitted wheels.
I remember watching a clown at a tyre services a couple of years back, went round the wheel like a pointer on a clock (not sympathetically like Olov Jay mentions above) he was using an air ratchet banging away for about 10 seconds on each nut, god knows if it was set to a specific torque, probably set to max. after going round about twice he went and got he big torque wrench, faffed about looking at a chart before adjusting the setting, didn’t get an inch of turn on any of the nuts, then announces to the driver that they were all torqued up proper. Driver seemed preoccupied with his mobile to care less.
shep532:
I’ve seen plenty of ‘trained’ mechanics use a torque wrench completely wrong - swinging on it after it has ‘clicked/broken’ to indicate the correct torque has been reached. Seemed they figured a few more Nm of torque ‘just in case’ and s-t-r-e-t-c-h goes the stud.
Two main reasons for wheel nuts coming loose in the first place - not done up in the first place or over tightened.
I personally think it is taking things a step to far to expect a driver to torque wheel nuts and sign to say they are OK. Yes they could be ‘trained’ and be perfect at the task but what next? If they were always fitted correctly in the first place by trained and diligent people instead of some of the monkey’s working as tyre fitters they would need torque checking.
Let’s consider the ‘unpaid’ job titles most drivers end up holding
Vehicle Valeter - Often responsible for cleaning of the vehicle inside and out (but there’s a cleaner in the office) Security Guard - Expected to look after the vehicle at all times (yet there’s usually ‘security’ on the offices/yard) Mechanic - Daily checks, topping up of fluids, changing bulbs, diagnosing defects and now torqueing of wheel nuts Load Master - Correctly securing a load is a technical job yet drivers are expected to do this without any training/help/advice Navigator - Seems drivers should be able to find anywhere in the UK from just a partial post code AND know whether the wagon will fit! Customer Services - The customer can talk to the driver however he wants but god forbid the driver upsets the customer Office Clerk - Paperwork paperwork and more paperwork Legal Expert - Expected to know the road traffic act, construction and use regs, drivers hours and the highway code
Most of the above (and I am sure you could add more) are actually individual job titles that people hold and get paid for doing!! If only a drivers’ pay reflected this.
Of course if a driver is happy to be torqueing wheel nuts then fine … Personally I’d want the pay in line with the responsibilities.
blimey Shep that’s taking it to the extremes - I have to keep my desk space tidy and clean (yes we have a cleaner) I may get out of hours calls etc. too
most of what you have put up there is the duties of a professional driver - unfortunately we now have hundreds of steering wheel attendants who cant load a trailer properly cant navigate cant do jack ■■■■ without someone explaining in detail every aspect of the job.
the only one I disagree with is the security guard - even when it was my truck I didn’t give a toss if they wanted it I wasn’t getting a kicking or worse that’s what insurances are for.
going back to the original post its not a huge request to go round with a torque wrench to me but I do get the whole need to keep you behind covered - mainly due to the lack of professional drivers on the road vs steering wheel dcpc trained attendants.
