Well Im getting old, but hopefully a bit wiser, & I have come to the conclusion that what went wrong was there was too many Carryfasts interfering with things they new f//k all about, is this Carryfast geazer british or what ? or is he something else. ? Regards Larry. & COLD SOBER
Lawrence Dunbar:
Well Im getting old, but hopefully a bit wiser, & I have come to the conclusion that what went wrong was there was too many Carryfasts interfering with things they new f//k all about, is this Carryfast geazer british or what ? or is he something else. ? Regards Larry. & COLD SOBER
Howay there Larry diffen’t get yersel exited or you’ll “boil yer watter”, carryfast is paid a retainer by the Site specifically to “wind” us lads up !! Oh! and I’ve just remembered my Grandad was the village Blacksmith at Capheaton in the 1920’s,how far is that from you? Cheers Dennis.
Just up the road Dennis theres a nice little coffee shop there, Now getting back to this Carryfast Rsole, as far as Im concerened he couldnt wind a clock up, he is a born tossa, Regards Larry.
Lawrence Dunbar:
Just up the road Dennis theres a nice little coffee shop there, Now getting back to this Carryfast Rsole, as far as Im concerened he couldnt wind a clock up, he is a born tossa, Regards Larry.
But what you’ve got to understand Larry,is that carryfast fought the American Civil war,on the Confederate side-------But wait-----he won it,well thats what he claims,I’ll have to check my history to see that I haven’t been lied to all these years !!Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Lawrence Dunbar:
Now getting back to this Carryfast Rsole, as far as Im concerened he couldnt wind a clock up, he is a born tossa, Regards Larry.But what you’ve got to understand Larry,is that carryfast fought the American Civil war,on the Confederate side
Yet more intelligent well informed argument from those who (would like to think that they) know more about the subject of actually making trucks than operating them or driving them. 
Bewick:
ramone:
Bewick:
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
■■■■■■■■ (bol’-oks) *n.*a risibly incorrect hypothesis. [Etym. uncertain].This is possibly where “carryfast” keeps his brains (possibly) Bewick.
Which seems to be a reasonable description of all the bollox put up by those who think that it was the fault of the British workers and/or the unions that they may,or may not,have been members of and the British truck manufacturers.
Have you been drinking Dennis ,Carryfast and brains ■■?
O K “ramone” but which body part will contain the most sense !!! Cheers Dennis
None because Carryfast isnt a person hes an automated reply service thats malfunctioning
ramone:
Bewick:
ramone:
Bewick:
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
■■■■■■■■ (bol’-oks) *n.*a risibly incorrect hypothesis. [Etym. uncertain].This is possibly where “carryfast” keeps his brains (possibly) Bewick.
Which seems to be a reasonable description of all the bollox put up by those who think that it was the fault of the British workers and/or the unions that they may,or may not,have been members of and the British truck manufacturers.
Have you been drinking Dennis ,Carryfast and brains ■■?
O K “ramone” but which body part will contain the most sense !!! Cheers Dennis
None because Carryfast isn
t a person hes an automated reply service thats malfunctioning
I suggested that very thing a couple of years ago, like a powerful chess machine that was invented in the 60’s 
Wheel Nut:
ramone:
Bewick:
ramone:
Bewick:
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:
■■■■■■■■ (bol’-oks) *n.*a risibly incorrect hypothesis. [Etym. uncertain].This is possibly where “carryfast” keeps his brains (possibly) Bewick.
Which seems to be a reasonable description of all the bollox put up by those who think that it was the fault of the British workers and/or the unions that they may,or may not,have been members of and the British truck manufacturers.
Have you been drinking Dennis ,Carryfast and brains ■■?
O K “ramone” but which body part will contain the most sense !!! Cheers Dennis
None because Carryfast isn
t a person hes an automated reply service thats malfunctioningI suggested that very thing a couple of years ago, like a powerful chess machine that was invented in the 60’s
More like an autistic 1 
Well he has been wired up wrong whatever he is but at least he takes it all
kr79:
Well he has been wired up wrong whatever he is but at least he takes it all
No man could take the amount of flak that has gone his way, without losing his rag. No reasonable person would continue to ignore or deny the sense that the other Members have presented. He must be a wind-up merchant.
[zb]
anorak:kr79:
Well he has been wired up wrong whatever he is but at least he takes it allNo man could take the amount of flak that has gone his way, without losing his rag. No reasonable person would continue to ignore or deny the sense that the other Members have presented. He must be a wind-up merchant.
Not at all.It’s just the difference between the application of engineering logic compared to that of those who don’t know any better.No surprise that it’s the engineers who got the blame for something that was actually caused by the retarded closed minded thinking of their customers.
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:kr79:
Well he has been wired up wrong whatever he is but at least he takes it allNo man could take the amount of flak that has gone his way, without losing his rag. No reasonable person would continue to ignore or deny the sense that the other Members have presented. He must be a wind-up merchant.
Not at all.It’s just the difference between the application of engineering logic compared to that of those who don’t know any better.No surprise that it’s the engineers who got the blame for something that was actually caused by the retarded closed minded thinking of their customers.
The computer says nooooooooooooo
ramone:
Carryfast:
[zb]
anorak:kr79:
Well he has been wired up wrong whatever he is but at least he takes it allNo man could take the amount of flak that has gone his way, without losing his rag. No reasonable person would continue to ignore or deny the sense that the other Members have presented. He must be a wind-up merchant.
Not at all.It’s just the difference between the application of engineering logic compared to that of those who don’t know any better.No surprise that it’s the engineers who got the blame for something that was actually caused by the retarded closed minded thinking of their customers.
The computer says nooooooooooooo
By the way.Just as a matter of inteterest how many others are there here who were actually working for a British truck manufacturer during the 1970’s let alone one which was able to provide them with a living out of mostly exports including exports ‘to’ North America ?. 
I’ve a question for you “CF” just as a matter of interest,how many motors did you run/manage in the 60’s/70’s/80’s ? Judging by all the facts,figures and perceived knowledge you churn out it sure must have been a substantial operation !! It’s OK spouting about the theoretical but have you had any “hands on” experience at the sharp end,and I mean “sharp end”,operating by your own wit and judgement,using your own “brass” as well !!.If you have gained the sort of experience I am referring to,fair do’s,but it sure as hell dosen’t shine through when we read your usual diatribe of “Bollox”,maybe you have difficulty conecting to the wave length of us old Hauliers and Drivers that have been there and “done it” PRACTICALLY and not just read it from or book or Web site !! Convince me I’m wrong and I’ll be the first to hold my hand up and apologise,but based on past experience of reading your many posts I won’t be holding my breath Son !! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick:
I’ve a question for you “CF” just as a matter of interest,how many motors did you run/manage in the 60’s/70’s/80’s ? Judging by all the facts,figures and perceived knowledge you churn out it sure must have been a substantial operation !! It’s OK spouting about the theoretical but have you had any “hands on” experience at the sharp end,and I mean “sharp end”,operating by your own wit and judgement,using your own “brass” as well !!.If you have gained the sort of experience I am referring to,fair do’s,but it sure as hell dosen’t shine through when we read your usual diatribe of “Bollox”,maybe you have difficulty conecting to the wave length of us old Hauliers and Drivers that have been there and “done it” PRACTICALLY and not just read it from or book or Web site !! Convince me I’m wrong and I’ll be the first to hold my hand up and apologise,but based on past experience of reading your many posts I won’t be holding my breath Son !! Cheers Bewick.
Bewick to put it simply in this case we’re talking about what went wrong in the British truck manufacturing industry not the road transport industry and it seems like there’s a lot of ruffled feathers as soon as anyone from the manufacturing side of the equation stands up against all the bs,from those who only had experience of the road transport industry,concerning the problems related to the manufacturing industry that they had zb all knowledge of whatsoever,whereas the knowledge needed to operate and drive the things is more easily transferred from making the things to using them as in my case.
I think that being able to hold down employment in both and be a CPC holder in which the responsibility of being a CPC holder ‘also’ means knowing the need NOT to operate,because the financial standing requirements aren’t there to allow it,‘should’,logically,answer your question.What I’m saying is that it’s a zb lot easier to sit their as an operator,or driver,within the road transport industry and criticise the efforts of the manufacturing industry,that they actually in reality know/knew zb all about, than it is/was to have the responsibility of knowing how to keep the truck manufacturing industry side going.
I’d like to hear from anyone who was involved in the British truck manufacturing industry during the 1970’s who thinks that things probably wouldn’t have been a lot easier and far different to how they turned out (if) it had had a far more enlightened,more advanced thinking domestic customer base,such as that found in export markets like New Zealand for example,and if it had taken the Australian idea of just producing US designed trucks and componentry locally here to (try to) circumvent and make up for the stalling in development caused by having to meet the relatively more backward requirements of it’s domestic customer base,relative to those that applied throughout the home customer base of the European and Scandinavian manufacturers.
But from the British road transport industry’s point of view it obviously saw a need to change,at some point,from using Gardner powered Atkis to foreign trucks that were far more comfortable and more powerful and there’s no real reason as to why those trucks shouldn’t have been British built American designs competing head on with the European competition when those British customers eventually decided to enter into the modern world from the 1950’s in just the same way as applied at the time and since in the New Zealand road transport industry.
But one thing is for certain there’s no way that anyone who was involved in the British truck manufacturing industry at the time will stand by and allow the usual bs thrown at those who were working in it and (trying to) keep it alive.
Carryfast:
But from the British road transport industry’s point of view it obviously saw a need to change,at some point,from using Gardner powered Atkis to foreign trucks that were far more comfortable and more powerful and there’s no real reason as to why those trucks shouldn’t have been British built American designs competing head on with the European competition when those British customers eventually decided to enter into the modern world from the 1950’s in just the same way as applied at the time and since in the New Zealand road transport industry.
What? Have you even seen a Yankee middle or lightweight truck, never mind driven one? They are AWFUL, period. It’s telling that Jap trucks are making inroads into the US distribution market, and they’re not exactly the most advanced wagons out there.
Could you please stop this “US good, Euro bad” [zb]. And FYI Australia does not have a “truck manufacturing industry”, it has assembly plants that put together stuff manufactured in the US and elsewhere (local component makers excepted).
You also contradict yourself - on the one hand you repeatedly state it was UK customers who blindly insisted on buying outdated British made products to the detriment of progress in British lorry design, then in the next breath or post point out these same customers deserted British wagons in droves for European makes, to the detriment of the British lorry industry. If your views as an “industry insider” are typical of the attitudes to their customers (the poor saps who just happened to funnel miilions every year into it), is it any wonder the UK truck industry fell in a heap?
Well said & very true, & what you have said just makes C/f. a bigger tossa than he was, Thank you , Larry.
ParkRoyal2100:
Carryfast:
But from the British road transport industry’s point of view it obviously saw a need to change,at some point,from using Gardner powered Atkis to foreign trucks that were far more comfortable and more powerful and there’s no real reason as to why those trucks shouldn’t have been British built American designs competing head on with the European competition when those British customers eventually decided to enter into the modern world from the 1950’s in just the same way as applied at the time and since in the New Zealand road transport industry.What? Have you even seen a Yankee middle or lightweight truck, never mind driven one? They are AWFUL, period. It’s telling that Jap trucks are making inroads into the US distribution market, and they’re not exactly the most advanced wagons out there.
Could you please stop this “US good, Euro bad” [zb]. And FYI Australia does not have a “truck manufacturing industry”, it has assembly plants that put together stuff manufactured in the US and elsewhere (local component makers excepted).
You also contradict yourself - on the one hand you repeatedly state it was UK customers who blindly insisted on buying outdated British made products to the detriment of progress in British lorry design, then in the next breath or post point out these same customers deserted British wagons in droves for European makes, to the detriment of the British lorry industry. If your views as an “industry insider” are typical of the attitudes to their customers (the poor saps who just happened to funnel miilions every year into it), is it any wonder the UK truck industry fell in a heap?
If I read the OP’s question right he’s referring to the heavy end of the market not the middle or lightweight end 
.
I don’t think I’ve ever said US good Euro bad.What I have said is that compared to the European and Scandinavian trucks that the British industry needed to compete with when it mattered during the 1970’s it was ‘‘British’’ bad ‘‘Euro/Scandinavian’’ good ‘‘and’’ ‘‘US’’ at least as good as ‘‘Euro/Scandinavian’’ if not better.
The same applies in regards to ‘‘Euro’’ v ‘‘US’’ to date.
Which obviously seems to upset all the ‘‘Euro/Scandinavian’’ good ‘‘British bad’’ lot according to them because the British industry was made up of a load of militant idiots who didn’t know how to put a truck together during the times when they weren’t on strike.
They also seem to get even more upset when anyone,who was involved in the ‘‘British’’ truck manufacturing industry,when it mattered, then dares to defend those workers who made up the industry at the time,by putting the blame where it belongs on the backward demands of the customers in the domestic market,and the resulting stalling in development of British trucks that it caused,as being the actual reason as to why ‘‘British’’ trucks were so far behind the competition.
In addition to which it seems to be more a case of you saying ‘‘US’’ bad ‘‘Euro’’ good not me saying the opposite.Although why you’ve chosen to base that on the light-middleweight sector is anyone’s guess but probably because you know that anyone in any of the markets where Euro and US compete with each other in the heavyweight sector,without trade barriers,like European Type Approval,in markets such as New Zealand would laugh at the idea.
As for the difference between a so called ‘assembly’ operation or total in house manufacture in most cases it’s the so called ‘assembly’ idea that allows the flexibility to remain competitive in the long term.Such as in the case of the fact that even the zb T 45 would have sold even less if Leyland had limited itself to just in house components wherever possible,without any options to fit outside bought in major components to suit customer preference.Such as in the case of if Leyland had been lumbered with the choice of having the TL 12 in it or nothing.
In general the idea of assembly just means the flexibility to choose the best components for the job.
There’s no contradiction between my case that British customers blindly insisted on calling for outdated designs to the detriment of progress in the British truck manufactruring industry and then the fact that those customers ‘eventually’ realised the error of their ideas and ‘then’ decided to jump ship and go over to the more advanced Euro and Scandinavian designs,which had been designed and built to suit their domestic markets first and in which those designs and initial production start up costs had been backed by those customers not ours.
At which point ‘if’ the British had been able to provide arguably even better US based designs,as in the case of the new Australian manufacturing (so called assembly) operations had done,it would have at least had a better chance to compete with those Euro/Scandinavian products.That’s assuming that the British operators had been as open minded to the idea of buying US based trucks as their New Zealand counterparts were and have been to date.
Although judging by this topic open mindedness,to the possibility of the idea that US trucks can be as good as,if not better than,Euro trucks,is something that would have been lacking,at least in those having had no experience of markets in the big wide world out there outside Europe.
In which case not surprisingly the British truck manufacturing industry wouldn’t have stood a chance.Which history shows is actually what happened. 
Carryfast:
I think…blah blah blah…
anyone who was involved in the British truck manufacturing industry…
…would laugh out loud at the majority of your opinions.
Anyone who has seen a typical IC engine torque curve would disagree with your analysis of the specifications I posted above. Your conclusions are diametrically opposed to the obvious.
No one with the most basic knowledge of business would blame the customers for a company’s failure, for buying the wrong product, when that was the product that was being supplied.
If you ever worked in the automotive industry, what did you actually do? Don’t tell me, your brush was the only one with the bristles on the top, and it was the customers’ fault that their yards were cleaner than yours.
Carryfast:
Bewick:
I’ve a question for you “CF” just as a matter of interest,how many motors did you run/manage in the 60’s/70’s/80’s ? Judging by all the facts,figures and perceived knowledge you churn out it sure must have been a substantial operation !! It’s OK spouting about the theoretical but have you had any “hands on” experience at the sharp end,and I mean “sharp end”,operating by your own wit and judgement,using your own “brass” as well !!.If you have gained the sort of experience I am referring to,fair do’s,but it sure as hell dosen’t shine through when we read your usual diatribe of “Bollox”,maybe you have difficulty conecting to the wave length of us old Hauliers and Drivers that have been there and “done it” PRACTICALLY and not just read it from or book or Web site !! Convince me I’m wrong and I’ll be the first to hold my hand up and apologise,but based on past experience of reading your many posts I won’t be holding my breath Son !! Cheers Bewick.Bewick to put it simply in this case we’re talking about what went wrong in the British truck manufacturing industry not the road transport industry and it seems like there’s a lot of ruffled feathers as soon as anyone from the manufacturing side of the equation stands up against all the bs,from those who only had experience of the road transport industry,concerning the problems related to the manufacturing industry that they had zb all knowledge of whatsoever,whereas the knowledge needed to operate and drive the things is more easily transferred from making the things to using them as in my case.
I think that being able to hold down employment in both and be a CPC holder in which the responsibility of being a CPC holder ‘also’ means knowing the need NOT to operate,because the financial standing requirements aren’t there to allow it,‘should’,logically,answer your question.What I’m saying is that it’s a zb lot easier to sit their as an operator,or driver,within the road transport industry and criticise the efforts of the manufacturing industry,that they actually in reality know/knew zb all about, than it is/was to have the responsibility of knowing how to keep the truck manufacturing industry side going.
I’d like to hear from anyone who was involved in the British truck manufacturing industry during the 1970’s who thinks that things probably wouldn’t have been a lot easier and far different to how they turned out (if) it had had a far more enlightened,more advanced thinking domestic customer base,such as that found in export markets like New Zealand for example,and if it had taken the Australian idea of just producing US designed trucks and componentry locally here to (try to) circumvent and make up for the stalling in development caused by having to meet the relatively more backward requirements of it’s domestic customer base,relative to those that applied throughout the home customer base of the European and Scandinavian manufacturers.
But from the British road transport industry’s point of view it obviously saw a need to change,at some point,from using Gardner powered Atkis to foreign trucks that were far more comfortable and more powerful and there’s no real reason as to why those trucks shouldn’t have been British built American designs competing head on with the European competition when those British customers eventually decided to enter into the modern world from the 1950’s in just the same way as applied at the time and since in the New Zealand road transport industry.
But one thing is for certain there’s no way that anyone who was involved in the British truck manufacturing industry at the time will stand by and allow the usual bs thrown at those who were working in it and (trying to) keep it alive.
I could have sworn Bewick asked a question at the top of this post, he certainly didn’t get an answer, well if he did my eyes had already glazed over. Tell me I don’t have to attempt to read that ■■■■■■■■ again.