ERF-Continental:
Also the question (as ■■■■■■■ had a service- and research-center in Gross Gerau (near Frankfurt) to
have the CONTINENTAL-business shaped) besides politics, employment etc…what was more attractive
…to expand that business IN the UK or because many of the manufacturers were not keen on the Continent
to apply ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■
NO Carryfast we are NOT in Phantasyland…so be crisp on your ideas and judgement
I’m not seeing any inconsistencies between that and my idea that ■■■■■■■ UK was deliberately hamstrung and ultimately sacrificed to the interests of the Euro/Scandi project and the Vertical Integration production model preferred by the foreign competition.
Which not only explains why customers couldn’t buy a UK produced intercooled Big Cam until it was all too late to bother.
But you also can’t buy a DAF with a ■■■■■■■ engine and 18 speed Fuller.
But you can still buy a Kenworth in Australia to that spec.Even though both manufacturers are ultimately owned by Paccar.
As in all cases the UK manufacturing industry having been reduced to a joke, relative to its position in the 1950’s - 70’s, just as planned.
Also bearing in mind that Brexit predictably did nothing to remove the ball and chain of EU type approval for UK registered vehicles in that regard.
Did any continental truck manufacturers offer a ■■■■■■■ option?
Bare in mind (gawd, I’m starting to sound like CF ), truck engines are less than 50% of ■■■■■■■ worldwide business, electricity generation is a large chunk.
@SDU…at least Ford had ■■■■■■■ in their Transcontinental…and with a assembly-line in Amsterdam, DAF offered ■■■■■■■ as an
option to fill in their own gap towards 500bhp…in the sixties Krupp (sort of joint venture with ■■■■■■■■ offered V6 and V8 not
only in their trucks, also in dumpers/carriers…more…?
DAF offered the N14 500 in the DAF 95 and the B series in the later Roadrunners and early 45/55s. I think the only uptake for the C series was from UK manufacturer ERF
DAF offered the N14 500 in the DAF 95 and the B series in the later Roadrunners and early 45/55s. I think the only uptake for the C series was from UK manufacturer ERF
■■■■■■■ effectively ceased production of large road truck engines in the UK within around 5 years from the introduction of the N14.
Star down under.:
Did any continental truck manufacturers offer a ■■■■■■■ option?
Bare in mind (gawd, I’m starting to sound like CF ), truck engines are less than 50% of ■■■■■■■ worldwide business, electricity generation is a large chunk.
They’re still used in the smaller DAF range of trucks.
Star down under.:
Volvo offered the N14+ then ISX, for a short while. The former came with an Eaton 18 speed, but Volvo resorted to their own box behind the ISX.
Surely you mean Volvo’s taken over GMC/White US operations ?.
Don’t think there was ever a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ option on the usual Swedish Volvos here.
Which leaves the question why all the continuing freedom of choice available to Australian and NZ customers in that regard but not here ?.
Euroland and our subservience to it’s rules was/is the elephant in the room here.Especially in the case of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ combination.
This one, my gaffer’s truck, had a 8 litre 265 bhp C Series engine mated to a small synchro gearbox which was very troublesome and eventually replaced with a nine speed constant mesh Fuller. My similar one came with a blown engine and gearbox so they replaced it with a L10 250 that they had in the garage.
Star down under.:
Volvo offered the N14+ then ISX, for a short while. The former came with an Eaton 18 speed, but Volvo resorted to their own box behind the ISX.
Surely you mean Volvo’s taken over GMC/White US operations ?.
Don’t think there was ever a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ option on the usual Swedish Volvos here.
Which leaves the question why all the continuing freedom of choice available to Australian and NZ customers in that regard but not here ?.
Euroland and our subservience to it’s rules was/is the elephant in the room here.Especially in the case of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ combination.
No, I meant what I wrote. I don’t recall any advertisements or promotion of said vehicles.
The story I heard, which sounds quite credible, is that one of the largest produce carriers, who operated one of the largest Volvo fleets, wanted a 500+hp prime mover at a time when Volvo’s biggest offering was 420hp.
To show they were serious, the cabbage carters purchased a Kenworth, C500 or T900, I don’t recall exactly but the driver was my neighbour.
Fearful of losing the customer, Volvo engineered the ■■■■■■■■■■ combination into their product. I don’t know how many were produced, but later ones had the ISX fitted with an in house gearbox.
I don’t remember if any FHs were so specced, or if the spec was sold to any other carriers, but I used a top of the range NH for a weekly trip of 5,000km with three trailers, whilst my WS 6900 was having an engine rebuild. It showed no sign of ever having been painted green. It was a pretty good truck, almost as good as my Star.
I asked a Volvo rep, at the Commercial Vehicle Show, why the RR was no longer offered. He replied that they had too many warranty issues with them. That strongly suggested to me that the American components were fitted under duress.
Volvos no longer offer a spec with imported components. All Mack trucks built in Australia are powered by an iteration of Volvo motor.
Star down under.:
Volvo offered the N14+ then ISX, for a short while. The former came with an Eaton 18 speed, but Volvo resorted to their own box behind the ISX.
Surely you mean Volvo’s taken over GMC/White US operations ?.
Don’t think there was ever a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ option on the usual Swedish Volvos here.
Which leaves the question why all the continuing freedom of choice available to Australian and NZ customers in that regard but not here ?.
Euroland and our subservience to it’s rules was/is the elephant in the room here.Especially in the case of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ combination.
No, I meant what I wrote. I don’t recall any advertisements or promotion of said vehicles.
The story I heard, which sounds quite credible, is that one of the largest produce carriers, who operated one of the largest Volvo fleets, wanted a 500+hp prime mover at a time when Volvo’s biggest offering was 420hp.
To show they were serious, the cabbage carters purchased a Kenworth, C500 or T900, I don’t recall exactly but the driver was my neighbour.
Fearful of losing the customer, Volvo engineered the ■■■■■■■■■■ combination into their product. I don’t know how many were produced, but later ones had the ISX fitted with an in house gearbox.
I don’t remember if any FHs were so specced, or if the spec was sold to any other carriers, but I used a top of the range NH for a weekly trip of 5,000km with three trailers, whilst my WS 6900 was having an engine rebuild. It showed no sign of ever having been painted green. It was a pretty good truck, almost as good as my Star.
I asked a Volvo rep, at the Commercial Vehicle Show, why the RR was no longer offered. He replied that they had too many warranty issues with them. That strongly suggested to me that the American components were fitted under duress.
Volvos no longer offer a spec with imported components. All Mack trucks built in Australia are powered by an iteration of Volvo motor.
There were certainly credible rumours that F12’s were being factory fitted/retro fitted with fuller transmissions for Australia.
But no seeming actual confirmation of that anywhere.
As for the N14 or any ■■■■■■■ motor being put in same as a factory fit that sounds impossible.
But no such doubts regarding ‘Volvo’ US which have offered the ■■■■■■■ option until at least recently if not to date.
While the CM article of the mid 1990’s shows what happened to ■■■■■■■■ UK operation.
The N14 was taken out here at that point.
While the whole set up seems to have just been a Trojan Horse to keep the Brits down and to help the Euro project.
Having said that the MX13 for example looks like a formidable outcome in terms of DAF at least.
Volvo, Scania, DAF and for sure MAN and Mercedes-Benz had other stakeholders than to apply ■■■■■■■■ whereas other assemblers
did their benefit and good with the latest state of the art an engine builder of that strength (indeed also for agriculture/construction)
could offer you and your customer.
Another poitn of view…in case ■■■■■■■ UK was not established…would the UK-industry for commercial vehicles apply US-produced
engines…or even from ■■■■■■■ India or ■■■■■■■ Japan?
Star down under.:
Volvo offered the N14+ then ISX, for a short while. The former came with an Eaton 18 speed, but Volvo resorted to their own box behind the ISX.
Surely you mean Volvo’s taken over GMC/White US operations ?.
Don’t think there was ever a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ option on the usual Swedish Volvos here.
Which leaves the question why all the continuing freedom of choice available to Australian and NZ customers in that regard but not here ?.
Euroland and our subservience to it’s rules was/is the elephant in the room here.Especially in the case of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ combination.
As I understand it Volvo used N14s for quite a few years in Australia in what superficially was a European tractor. Of course due to huge import duties thet were all assembled down under from CKDs. The first ones I believe were retrofitted because Volvo had sold F16s into the roadtrain market and they just couldn’t hack it, cooling issues leading to total failure I believe, so to save face Volvo replaced the TD16 with a ■■■■■■■ and these proved popular so they started building new ones in Oz. Don’t forget the IVECO Turbostars with Detroit 60 series that they had down there, Scanias with Fullers Mercedes SK with Eaton rear axles, there were many things that weren’t what they appeared to be to European eyes in Australia.
Star down under.:
Volvo offered the N14+ then ISX, for a short while. The former came with an Eaton 18 speed, but Volvo resorted to their own box behind the ISX.
Surely you mean Volvo’s taken over GMC/White US operations ?.
Don’t think there was ever a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ option on the usual Swedish Volvos here.
Which leaves the question why all the continuing freedom of choice available to Australian and NZ customers in that regard but not here ?.
Euroland and our subservience to it’s rules was/is the elephant in the room here.Especially in the case of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ combination.
As I understand it Volvo used N14s for quite a few years in Australia in what superficially was a European tractor. Of course due to huge import duties thet were all assembled down under from CKDs. The first ones I believe were retrofitted because Volvo had sold F16s into the roadtrain market and they just couldn’t hack it, cooling issues leading to total failure I believe, so to save face Volvo replaced the TD16 with a ■■■■■■■ and these proved popular so they started building new ones in Oz. Don’t forget the IVECO Turbostars with Detroit 60 series that they had down there, Scanias with Fullers Mercedes SK with Eaton rear axles, there were many things that weren’t what they appeared to be to European eyes in Australia.
.
There is certainly evidence that Volvo used the N14 in its Volvo US/AU VN/NH type versions.
But can’t find any evidence of the N14 finding its way into the F16 or even FH bearing in mind the F16 finished production only around two years after the N14’s introduction.
Similar applies in the case of Fuller equipped Scanias.
Possibly credible rumours of a few home built bitsas got exaggerated into a factory programme as they went through the grapevine.
As for ■■■■■■■ UK it’s unarguable fact that it didn’t want to introduce the intercooled so called super E here until it was all too late.
Then it chose to ditch all that well spent investment in the N14 shortly after it’s introduction.
Who gained from that other than the foreign Vertically Integrated competition.
OK, thank you for all your feedback, opinions and dreams…suppose ■■■■■■■ didn’t decide to
start an assembly- and production facility at Shots (Scotland) or Darlington (England) at all! What
would be the reaction for the relevant lorry-manufacturers…despite the fact that ■■■■■■■ had
more lines in the fish-pond (with construction, agriculture, generators and world-wide trucks) to
survive in the vertical- and horizontal world of truck-business.
Star down under.:
Volvo offered the N14+ then ISX, for a short while. The former came with an Eaton 18 speed, but Volvo resorted to their own box behind the ISX.
Surely you mean Volvo’s taken over GMC/White US operations ?.
Don’t think there was ever a ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ option on the usual Swedish Volvos here.
Which leaves the question why all the continuing freedom of choice available to Australian and NZ customers in that regard but not here ?.
Euroland and our subservience to it’s rules was/is the elephant in the room here.Especially in the case of the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ combination.
As I understand it Volvo used N14s for quite a few years in Australia in what superficially was a European tractor. Of course due to huge import duties thet were all assembled down under from CKDs. The first ones I believe were retrofitted because Volvo had sold F16s into the roadtrain market and they just couldn’t hack it, cooling issues leading to total failure I believe, so to save face Volvo replaced the TD16 with a ■■■■■■■ and these proved popular so they started building new ones in Oz. Don’t forget the IVECO Turbostars with Detroit 60 series that they had down there, Scanias with Fullers Mercedes SK with Eaton rear axles, there were many things that weren’t what they appeared to be to European eyes in Australia.
.
There is certainly evidence that Volvo used the N14 in its Volvo US/AU VN/NH type versions.
But can’t find any evidence of the N14 finding its way into the F16 or even FH bearing in mind the F16 finished production only around two years after the N14’s introduction.
Similar applies in the case of Fuller equipped Scanias.
Possibly credible rumours of a few home built bitsas got exaggerated into a factory programme as they went through the grapevine.
As for ■■■■■■■ UK it’s unarguable fact that it didn’t want to introduce the intercooled so called super E here until it was all too late.
Then it chose to ditch all that well spent investment in the N14 shortly after it’s introduction.
Who gained from that other than the foreign Vertically Integrated competition.
About half way down this article Jeff. It was a bit later than I thought dating from 2000 and they were FH fitted ex factory with Signature 565s. The reason was correct though cooling issues with the 16 litre Volvo, unfortunately they only built 270 of them because the ■■■■■■■ destroyed the Volvo gearbox.
acd1202:
About half way down this article Jeff. It was a bit later than I thought dating from 2000 and they were FH fitted ex factory with Signature 565s. The reason was correct though cooling issues with the 16 litre Volvo, unfortunately they only built 270 of them because the ■■■■■■■ destroyed the Volvo gearbox.
That’s an interesting article.So it was the ISX which found its way into the Volvo FH ? then found that the Volvo synchro box couldn’t handle it.The Volvo D series engines seem to be a nightmare to maintain their cam drive gear is at the rear of the engine if cam in head isn’t already bad enough at rebuild time.
Having said that the ISX also didn’t seem to have the durability of the N14 ?.
Ironically it seems to be the pushrod Paccar MX13 which seems to be the true successor to the N14.500 + hp from a litre less isn’t a bad effort.
While in the case of ■■■■■■■ UK it would be the Volvo TD12 v the 14 litre big cam when the ■■■■■■■ UK product was limited to less than 300 hp at that point v the 12 litre Volvo’s well over 300 hp and same in the case of the DAF 2800/3300.
It took ■■■■■■■ UK until 1985 to offer even 320/308 net.
IE a ( deliberately ? ) uncompetitive product.
Followed by closure of N14 production less than 10 years later soon after its introduction.
However ■■■■■■■ reputation for invincibility seems to have gone downhill since the ISX anyway.
Both the MX and the Detroit/DB seeming to be more durable ? so maybe ■■■■■■■ UK saw the writing on the wall in terms of the product and the Vertical Integration v the Assembly production model.
As previously stated, prior to the release of the ■■■■■■■ ISX, Volvo fitted the N14+ and 18 speed Eaton to their top end product.
The ISX/Signature had some reliability issues when first released. The final stages of development were rushed and the engine hurriedly put into production, as the 550hp Cat 3406E had recently been made available.
■■■■■■■ has made a number of modifications to the 15 litre engine and it is now an exceptionally reliable unit. The latest version in named X15.
Star down under.:
As previously stated, prior to the release of the ■■■■■■■ ISX, Volvo fitted the N14+ and 18 speed Eaton to their top end product.
The ISX/Signature had some reliability issues when first released. The final stages of development were rushed and the engine hurriedly put into production, as the 550hp Cat 3406E had recently been made available.
■■■■■■■ has made a number of modifications to the 15 litre engine and it is now an exceptionally reliable unit. The latest version in named X15.
In all cases the Volvo/■■■■■■■ combination seems to be specifically limited to Volvo US and Volvo Australia products.
While ■■■■■■■ UK had closed down its heavy truck engine manufacturing operations shortly after the introduction of the N14.
It’s clear that Euroland conditions here took out the type of customer choice available in Australia and NZ.With the effective closure of ■■■■■■■ UK, like the UK truck manufacturing industry in general.
Although ironically the issue of economies of scale being lost by offering such outside choice obviously now applies in the case of Volvo and Paccar’s in house engines as opposed to ■■■■■■■ v Gardner.
Star down under.:
Did any continental truck manufacturers offer a ■■■■■■■ option?
Bare in mind (gawd, I’m starting to sound like CF ), truck engines are less than 50% of ■■■■■■■ worldwide business, electricity generation is a large chunk.
SDU again spot on…■■■■■■■ had many fishing rods in various ponds …so CF…why bother to end production in UK…also in Germany the Gross-Gerau-plant
was shut down and some years ago I didn’t saw a brick of that building anymore…let’s think GLOBAL, however the thread is on the ■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■ or even when they had no presence at all in UK
), truck engines are less than 50% of ■■■■■■■ worldwide business, electricity generation is a large chunk.